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Sol System and the collapse of the EVE Gate

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Callic Veratar
#41 - 2013-02-05 17:21:44 UTC
Maire Gheren wrote:
20,000 years? That's a kids fable. We don't have any history that's 20,000 years old. The oldest history we have comes from a handful of countries that had fascinations with writing things on pieces of rock and burying them in hermetically sealed boxes in the middle of the desert. And we can barely understand the context from any of those. We can't even read the blueprints from the Saturn rockets. We have them, but we can't read them. They're ancient history, and the translation methods are lost technology.


Travelling from now to 20,000 years ago humanity loses sentience, at least as we currently know it. Travelling forward, barring extreme catastrophes, we have massive stores of information. Look in this thread alone and you'll see it in action with dug up old videos and articles. The decay of the physical world will continue, but information will likely live longer and longer in the future.

As well, the evolution of language will also be documented. There will be a point where information will be immortal.
Nemesis Factor
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#42 - 2013-02-06 02:36:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Nemesis Factor
CCP Falcon wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The new eden WH was not in Sol.

Sol is the name of our star, also known as Sun.
Not the name of the system.


By EVE naming standards at least, you're wrong.

In EVE's lore, if we did know about the system that Earth is in, it would be called "Sol".

For example, the system of Jita is called Jita because that's the actual name of the star, and it's labelled as such in game. That's why, for instance the fourth planet from Jita is called "Jita IV".

Since "Sol" is the name of our star, that's what the system would be called. If it were represented in EVE, the system's celestial list of planets (not including moons and an asteroid belt of course because it'd take hours to list them all) would look like this:

Sol (Star)
Sol I (Mercury)
Sol II (Venus)
Sol III (Earth)
Sol IV (Mars)
Sol V (Jupiter)
Sol VI (Saturn)
Sol VII (Uranus)
Sol VIII (Neptune)
Sol IX (Pluto)

And yeah, I included Pluto to give the little guy a break P

Compare this with the list of planets in Luminaire (the Gallente home system) for instance and you see where I'm coming from:

Luminaire (Star)
Luminaire I (Noya)
Luminaire II (Corufeu)
Luminaire III (Astrin)
Luminaire IV (Malloc)
Luminaire V (Tanet)
Luminaire VI (Gallente Prime)
Luminaire VII (Caldari Prime)
Luminaire VIII (Ortange)

Henry Haphorn wrote:
The story makes no mention of earth being anywhere near the Eve gate. Mankind had already expanded to cover the entire milky way galaxy long before the Eve wormhole was discovered.


Not the entire Milky Way, but we'd reached the limits of where technology could take us, and were starting to suffer from conflict due to resource scarcity and overcrowding.

Also, as CCP Eterne has pointed out, the wormhole was not in Sol, it was in Canopus. Smile


According to wikipedia, Canopus roughly translates to 'Star of the Old Man' in Chinese. Is that some sort of coincidence in relation to 'Old Man Star?'

Edit: Apparently Arrakis from Dune is the third planet in Canopus as well!
mkint
#43 - 2013-02-06 04:09:59 UTC
Nemesis Factor wrote:
CCP Falcon wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
The new eden WH was not in Sol.

Sol is the name of our star, also known as Sun.
Not the name of the system.


By EVE naming standards at least, you're wrong.

In EVE's lore, if we did know about the system that Earth is in, it would be called "Sol".

For example, the system of Jita is called Jita because that's the actual name of the star, and it's labelled as such in game. That's why, for instance the fourth planet from Jita is called "Jita IV".

Since "Sol" is the name of our star, that's what the system would be called. If it were represented in EVE, the system's celestial list of planets (not including moons and an asteroid belt of course because it'd take hours to list them all) would look like this:

Sol (Star)
Sol I (Mercury)
Sol II (Venus)
Sol III (Earth)
Sol IV (Mars)
Sol V (Jupiter)
Sol VI (Saturn)
Sol VII (Uranus)
Sol VIII (Neptune)
Sol IX (Pluto)

And yeah, I included Pluto to give the little guy a break P

Compare this with the list of planets in Luminaire (the Gallente home system) for instance and you see where I'm coming from:

Luminaire (Star)
Luminaire I (Noya)
Luminaire II (Corufeu)
Luminaire III (Astrin)
Luminaire IV (Malloc)
Luminaire V (Tanet)
Luminaire VI (Gallente Prime)
Luminaire VII (Caldari Prime)
Luminaire VIII (Ortange)

Henry Haphorn wrote:
The story makes no mention of earth being anywhere near the Eve gate. Mankind had already expanded to cover the entire milky way galaxy long before the Eve wormhole was discovered.


Not the entire Milky Way, but we'd reached the limits of where technology could take us, and were starting to suffer from conflict due to resource scarcity and overcrowding.

Also, as CCP Eterne has pointed out, the wormhole was not in Sol, it was in Canopus. Smile


According to wikipedia, Canopus roughly translates to 'Star of the Old Man' in Chinese. Is that some sort of coincidence in relation to 'Old Man Star?'

Edit: Apparently Arrakis from Dune is the third planet in Canopus as well!

Old man star is a pretty nasty CCP troll. If there is a connection, it's probably because CCP thought it was hilararious. And it's consistent with Icelandic humor.

Maxim 6. If violence wasn’t your last resort, you failed to resort to enough of it.
Eija-Riitta Veitonen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#44 - 2013-02-06 06:05:01 UTC
There is, however, a story on the origin of the name for the system, so the name connection might actually be an accident.
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2013-02-12 20:48:05 UTC
CCP Eterne wrote:
The ADAM bit might be hidden PF that I've told you. Ooops!



aw crap, the CCP ninjas are coming to kill us all now. gust freaking great. Shocked

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
RavenTesio
Liandri Corporation
#46 - 2013-02-14 17:36:10 UTC
Callic Veratar wrote:
Maire Gheren wrote:
20,000 years? That's a kids fable. We don't have any history that's 20,000 years old. The oldest history we have comes from a handful of countries that had fascinations with writing things on pieces of rock and burying them in hermetically sealed boxes in the middle of the desert. And we can barely understand the context from any of those. We can't even read the blueprints from the Saturn rockets. We have them, but we can't read them. They're ancient history, and the translation methods are lost technology.


Travelling from now to 20,000 years ago humanity loses sentience, at least as we currently know it. Travelling forward, barring extreme catastrophes, we have massive stores of information. Look in this thread alone and you'll see it in action with dug up old videos and articles. The decay of the physical world will continue, but information will likely live longer and longer in the future.

As well, the evolution of language will also be documented. There will be a point where information will be immortal.


Information is only as valuable as your own ability to decode and interpret it.
If you had never been taught to read and write, which bare in mind even today literacy is not 100% then your own means of conveying information between generations is through the spoken word.

We have very little information about what occured 20,000 years ago... past geological records and mythos passed down via the spoken word. If a language dies or is changed due to cultural exchange and blending, then often our ability to understand historical records even a few generations without something common to base it upon is difficult at best and impossible at worst.

Look at it like this, I hand you a Data Drive with an Library on it.

For you to access it you would need
a) the Data Port details
b) the Power Supply details (too little it is useless, too much it'll fry destroying the circuitry allowing access)
c) the File System it is formatted in
d) the Database Storage system it is stored within
e) the CPU Architecture that the information was encoded in
f) the Language all the information is stored within

Of course the less technology you put between you and the end-user of the information you're providing the better chance it can be passed on, even if it is going to be subject to easy corruption especially when being translated. As such you will always lose details, but the basic important aspects will survive.

In-fact you'll find this is why Peroglyphs are so popularly used throughout ancient civilisations, not because they didn't have a more "short-hand" written language as we used today but actually because even those who are not literate within context can understand what is meant.

In any case while the back-water Brutors engage in their pointless theocratic discussion about history they clearly have no understanding of... There is a more important discussion here to be had, and no I'm not talking about the existance of the Progenitors or their fate at the other end of the EVE Stargate.

The bigger mystery is actually our end in the New Eden system.
I'm sure many here have heard the legend about the EVE Stargate being surrounded by hundred (perhaps thousands) of wrecks of ancient ships that in order to protect them from falling in to the wrong hands they cloaked them.

Still think about this for a second, it is almost impossible to get close enough to get near the ancient ships... why cloak them?
More importantly the Jovians apparently are so concerned we could get our hands on these ships to study, yet since the appearance of "natural" wormholes a few years ago they have not had a problem with us getting our hands on Sleeper Technology; which has led to massive advancements in our Ship Technology as well as implant technology allowing the development of the "Immortal Soldier" project ... Sleepers as we now know were actually Jovians themselves that were in-charge of seeding this galaxy with Stargates until they fell foul of a genetic defect.

Fairly easy to assume that many of the uncharted "Wormhole" systems are actually systems that are likely further out than we have been able to get our own Seeding Ships or those that we "undesirable" for linking. In-fact it is quite likely that the Wormholes that link our space with these systems are artificial in nature as a "next-generation" Stargate project that was never fully realised.

In any case if we can access and learn from that technology which is likely to be more advanced, Jovians after all were again by our own myths are direct descendants from the original Progenitors called "Terrans" then would it not make sense that despite their technology; the Jovians are just as much prisoners of this Galaxy as we are; but more there is something important about what happened at the EVE Stargate ... I mean if they just didn't want us to have the Technology they would've destroyed it, or prevented us from accessing Sleeper Technology.

Perhaps it is just a myth or legend, but there is always some factual basis for such things.
Makes you wonder what the Jovians are trying to hide or if they are even the ones who hid what is there.
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