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T2 Shuttles -- Make them a Reality
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Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#21 - 2013-02-12 18:18:46 UTC
Isn't moving 50 jumps with no cargo part of the reason we have jump clones? It's a hell of a lot faster than this proposed T2 shuttle.
Quintessen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2013-02-12 18:22:46 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Isn't moving 50 jumps with no cargo part of the reason we have jump clones? It's a hell of a lot faster than this proposed T2 shuttle.


And I thought (may have actually written it somewhere) that fixing jump clones could solve this problem... but right now they're slightly out of grasp.

1) Jump clones require high standings which means grinding missions for a week or more (depending on time spend playing).

2) Jump clones have a 24 delays before jumping again meaning it's not good if you want a quick return trip.

3) Jump clones also require buying new implants or gimping yourself for a day each time you use them.

4) Jump clones aren't really available to new players.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#23 - 2013-02-12 18:40:02 UTC
Quintessen wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
Isn't moving 50 jumps with no cargo part of the reason we have jump clones? It's a hell of a lot faster than this proposed T2 shuttle.


And I thought (may have actually written it somewhere) that fixing jump clones could solve this problem... but right now they're slightly out of grasp.

1) Jump clones require high standings which means grinding missions for a week or more (depending on time spend playing).

2) Jump clones have a 24 delays before jumping again meaning it's not good if you want a quick return trip.

3) Jump clones also require buying new implants or gimping yourself for a day each time you use them.

4) Jump clones aren't really available to new players.


None of which is really a reason to put resources into a tiny little niche ship that shave 5 minutes off your trip.

Jump clones don't require any grinding at all. Estel Arador is your friend. If you train the skill, you can go drop clones as soon as you're in corp.

The 24 hour delay is a bit of a hassle, but I can't think of a single reason that I, personally, would travel 100 jumps round trip in a cargoless ship, where it would not be easier to simply jump clone there. (Assuming it's a regular trip. If it's a one time deal, I'm still likely to fly something other than a shuttle.) If there's something I need from there, I'll have to bring it back, so the cargoless shuttle proposed is useless. If it's some spiffy, expensive implant, then it must be such a deal to go 100 jumps round trip that I can probably afford to simply have it brought to me, and still save money on it.

As to being gimped by jumping clone? It also gimps you if you get popped on gate in your little shuttle, and summarily podded, thus losing your implants, while AFK autopiloting; even landing at 0, you risk this.

And jump clones are hardly difficult to obtain for new players. You inject & train train the skill, you go install the clones.
Quintessen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#24 - 2013-02-12 18:51:34 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Quintessen wrote:
.. snip ..


None of which is really a reason to put resources into a tiny little niche ship that shave 5 minutes off your trip.

Jump clones don't require any grinding at all. Estel Arador is your friend. If you train the skill, you can go drop clones as soon as you're in corp.

The 24 hour delay is a bit of a hassle, but I can't think of a single reason that I, personally, would travel 100 jumps round trip in a cargoless ship, where it would not be easier to simply jump clone there. (Assuming it's a regular trip. If it's a one time deal, I'm still likely to fly something other than a shuttle.) If there's something I need from there, I'll have to bring it back, so the cargoless shuttle proposed is useless. If it's some spiffy, expensive implant, then it must be such a deal to go 100 jumps round trip that I can probably afford to simply have it brought to me, and still save money on it.

As to being gimped by jumping clone? It also gimps you if you get popped on gate in your little shuttle, and summarily podded, thus losing your implants, while AFK autopiloting; even landing at 0, you risk this.

And jump clones are hardly difficult to obtain for new players. You inject & train train the skill, you go install the clones.


Point about Estel Arador, though most new people won't know about them.

As far as the 24h delay being annoying. It's annoying to traders who operate in multiple regions. If I'm in Rens and need to get to Jita to adjust prices or vice versa, I don't need another 15 minutes tacked onto my trip because I find the trip dull.

And landing at 0 in high sec in a shuttle, guaranteed to have no cargo, is pretty safe even in the wild world of EVE. So while I risk my implants, I'm not risking them anymore than someone deciding to pop me flying around Jita or Rens in the first place.
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#25 - 2013-02-12 19:01:11 UTC
Quintessen wrote:
And landing at 0 in high sec in a shuttle, guaranteed to have no cargo, is pretty safe even in the wild world of EVE. So while I risk my implants, I'm not risking them anymore than someone deciding to pop me flying around Jita or Rens in the first place.


^ is the reason why it shouldnt be implemented in 1st place. Being safe while AFK and not docked is a big NO.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#26 - 2013-02-12 19:04:04 UTC
Quintessen wrote:


Point about Estel Arador, though most new people won't know about them.

As far as the 24h delay being annoying. It's annoying to traders who operate in multiple regions. If I'm in Rens and need to get to Jita to adjust prices or vice versa, I don't need another 15 minutes tacked onto my trip because I find the trip dull.

And landing at 0 in high sec in a shuttle, guaranteed to have no cargo, is pretty safe even in the wild world of EVE. So while I risk my implants, I'm not risking them anymore than someone deciding to pop me flying around Jita or Rens in the first place.


Most new people also don't know enough to not use autopilot, either. But they tend to learn pretty quick. Blink

I have traders in multiple regions, too, and I never jump clone. I log out, and log on an alt on the same account. I can see your points, but there's already mechanics in place that allow for these kinds of things. If I'm only going a handful of jumps anyway, I'm still likely to be doing it in something other than a shuttle, as this character is involved in FW. I suppose I can see some utility for someone who only trades, but I still don't know that the dev time would be worth it.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-02-12 19:08:34 UTC
Autopilot needs to warp to zero. You himplement autopilot, but it shouldn't be used. Okay.Lol

Take this game design logic to any game developer that's actually successful (no, CCP's financial growth and performance is woefully pathetic in comparison), and they'll laugh in your face.Roll
Quintessen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-02-12 19:08:59 UTC
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Quintessen wrote:
And landing at 0 in high sec in a shuttle, guaranteed to have no cargo, is pretty safe even in the wild world of EVE. So while I risk my implants, I'm not risking them anymore than someone deciding to pop me flying around Jita or Rens in the first place.


^ is the reason why it shouldnt be implemented in 1st place. Being safe while AFK and not docked is a big NO.


The reason you're safe isn't because of some immunity but because there is no incentive either way. If you're flying around in a shuttle with no module to loot and no cargo the only people going around blowing you up are people who feel like getting CONCORDed. Safety comes from a cost/reward ratio that favors the shuttle pilot. That's the safety I'm talking about and you have it right now piloting a shuttle while AFK using the autopilot. Now it just takes longer.
Quintessen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2013-02-12 19:13:33 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Quintessen wrote:


Point about Estel Arador, though most new people won't know about them.

As far as the 24h delay being annoying. It's annoying to traders who operate in multiple regions. If I'm in Rens and need to get to Jita to adjust prices or vice versa, I don't need another 15 minutes tacked onto my trip because I find the trip dull.

And landing at 0 in high sec in a shuttle, guaranteed to have no cargo, is pretty safe even in the wild world of EVE. So while I risk my implants, I'm not risking them anymore than someone deciding to pop me flying around Jita or Rens in the first place.


Most new people also don't know enough to not use autopilot, either. But they tend to learn pretty quick. Blink

I have traders in multiple regions, too, and I never jump clone. I log out, and log on an alt on the same account. I can see your points, but there's already mechanics in place that allow for these kinds of things. If I'm only going a handful of jumps anyway, I'm still likely to be doing it in something other than a shuttle, as this character is involved in FW. I suppose I can see some utility for someone who only trades, but I still don't know that the dev time would be worth it.



With respect to dev time, I agree. It's a niche idea. It's also relatively easy to implement given that there's almost no balancing involved. The most complicated piece would be coming up with the components used to make it. But the alternate skin and database entries for it in the market wouldn't be too high. I imagine the whole thing could be done in under a man-week. That said, I would rather them work on Drone UI, or any of a half dozen things that are higher priority.
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#30 - 2013-02-12 19:17:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Quintessen wrote:
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:

^ is the reason why it shouldnt be implemented in 1st place. Being safe while AFK and not docked is a big NO.


The reason you're safe isn't because of some immunity but because there is no incentive either way. If you're flying around in a shuttle with no module to loot and no cargo the only people going around blowing you up are people who feel like getting CONCORDed. Safety comes from a cost/reward ratio that favors the shuttle pilot. That's the safety I'm talking about and you have it right now piloting a shuttle while AFK using the autopilot. Now it just takes longer.


that is true, unless you are in FW / have suspect flag / have war decs / have low CC / have kill right on you <- are these enough reasons (aside from killing just for the sake of killing) to kill something flying on autopilot along with its capsule? Your idea makes it nearly impossible.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
#31 - 2013-02-12 19:57:05 UTC
A Tech 2 Shuttle is called a Frigate.

Seriously.

Thank you.
Quintessen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2013-02-12 20:06:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Quintessen
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:
Quintessen wrote:
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris wrote:

^ is the reason why it shouldnt be implemented in 1st place. Being safe while AFK and not docked is a big NO.


The reason you're safe isn't because of some immunity but because there is no incentive either way. If you're flying around in a shuttle with no module to loot and no cargo the only people going around blowing you up are people who feel like getting CONCORDed. Safety comes from a cost/reward ratio that favors the shuttle pilot. That's the safety I'm talking about and you have it right now piloting a shuttle while AFK using the autopilot. Now it just takes longer.


that is true, unless you are in FW / have suspect flag / have war decs / have low CC / have kill right on you <- are these enough reasons (aside from killing just for the sake of killing) to kill something flying on autopilot along with its capsule? Your idea makes it nearly impossible.


Point. Doing trade activities means I do usually do FW or have a suspect flag, but I can see how it could be abused by those who do. Can I then get a T2 shuttle with a higher base velocity. Say 500 m/s => 750 m/s or 900 m/s? Or reduce the jump clone re-jump delay to something less than 24h? I also wouldn't argue against +1 warp core stability.

To the people who say get a Frig. I'm looking for something that I don't have to fit. I just want something I can buy and fly.
Domanique Altares
Rifterlings
#33 - 2013-02-12 20:12:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Domanique Altares
Quintessen wrote:
To the people who say get a Frig. I'm looking for something that I don't have to fit. I just want something I can buy and fly.


You don't need to fit a frig, or a noobship. Buy it, assemble it, fly it as is.
Quintessen
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-02-12 20:44:39 UTC
Domanique Altares wrote:
Quintessen wrote:
To the people who say get a Frig. I'm looking for something that I don't have to fit. I just want something I can buy and fly.


You don't need to fit a frig, or a noobship. Buy it, assemble it, fly it as is.


I'm not a connoisseur of frigates. I wasn't aware any of them had a base speed of 500 m/s and a warp speed of 6 AU/s.

If there are, please point me to them.
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#35 - 2013-02-12 20:55:47 UTC
Quintessen wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
Quintessen wrote:
To the people who say get a Frig. I'm looking for something that I don't have to fit. I just want something I can buy and fly.


You don't need to fit a frig, or a noobship. Buy it, assemble it, fly it as is.


I'm not a connoisseur of frigates. I wasn't aware any of them had a base speed of 500 m/s and a warp speed of 6 AU/s.

If there are, please point me to them.

Claw, assuming you have the navigation skill at 2 or higher.
Warps at 9AU per second too.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Republic Military Tax Avoiders
#36 - 2013-02-12 21:00:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Kirimeena D'Zbrkesbris
Quintessen wrote:
Domanique Altares wrote:
Quintessen wrote:
To the people who say get a Frig. I'm looking for something that I don't have to fit. I just want something I can buy and fly.


You don't need to fit a frig, or a noobship. Buy it, assemble it, fly it as is.


I'm not a connoisseur of frigates. I wasn't aware any of them had a base speed of 500 m/s and a warp speed of 6 AU/s.

If there are, please point me to them.


they are called interceptors (base speed of 400+m/s with 13.5au warp speed)

claw or ares, choose one for yourself and fly it. A couple of nanos and it is better than shuttle.

Opinions are like assholes. Everybody got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.
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