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POS takedown, carrier and two battleships or a dreadnought?
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Bishop Aidartier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-02-09 11:16:56 UTC
May be in the boots to take down a small undefended POS - how would a carrier with a couple of battleships for DPS stack up to a lone dreadnought? And would a carrier even be able to take down a POS using fighters?
Cameron Cahill
Deaths Consortium
The Initiative.
#2 - 2013-02-09 12:09:33 UTC
With a carrier and two battleships the best you can hope to do is 4k dps, probably significantly less. A single dread can get up to 14k dps. Do the maths ;).

And if the pos is offline then yes, if the bubble is up then no use sentries.
Bishop Aidartier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-02-09 16:10:00 UTC
Cameron Cahill wrote:
With a carrier and two battleships the best you can hope to do is 4k dps, probably significantly less. A single dread can get up to 14k dps. Do the maths ;).

And if the pos is offline then yes, if the bubble is up then no use sentries.


Thank you sir!
Cat Casidy
Percussive Diplomacy
Sedition.
#4 - 2013-02-09 17:38:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Cat Casidy
If it's offline (or just very lightly defended) just use a handful of tier 3 bc's, higher or equal damage as a battleship, cheaper, and able to gtfo if needed. Also pos guns cycle targets so it's pretty easy to keep bouncing tier 3's in and out to keep them alive, as long as there arent scramblers. If you only have the one dread, depending on what type it is and how it's setup, you're going to need at least four or five cycles (20-30 mins) just to take down a small, which means you have a 3-4 bill isk ship sitting there undefended for a half hour at least. Remember that even though the bubble is down you still have to shoot the shield, you don't get to start at armor just because it's offline.

.
Bishop Aidartier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-02-10 15:58:45 UTC
Cat Casidy wrote:
If it's offline (or just very lightly defended) just use a handful of tier 3 bc's, higher or equal damage as a battleship, cheaper, and able to gtfo if needed. Also pos guns cycle targets so it's pretty easy to keep bouncing tier 3's in and out to keep them alive, as long as there arent scramblers. If you only have the one dread, depending on what type it is and how it's setup, you're going to need at least four or five cycles (20-30 mins) just to take down a small, which means you have a 3-4 bill isk ship sitting there undefended for a half hour at least. Remember that even though the bubble is down you still have to shoot the shield, you don't get to start at armor just because it's offline.


Thank you for the advice, I had been wondering how long it would take a lone dread to do a small POS, this is why I was looking at other options.

o/
Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#6 - 2013-02-10 18:12:48 UTC
Cat Casidy wrote:
If it's offline (or just very lightly defended) just use a handful of tier 3 bc's, higher or equal damage as a battleship, cheaper, and able to gtfo if needed. Also pos guns cycle targets so it's pretty easy to keep bouncing tier 3's in and out to keep them alive, as long as there arent scramblers. If you only have the one dread, depending on what type it is and how it's setup, you're going to need at least four or five cycles (20-30 mins) just to take down a small, which means you have a 3-4 bill isk ship sitting there undefended for a half hour at least. Remember that even though the bubble is down you still have to shoot the shield, you don't get to start at armor just because it's offline.


But if it is offline, you don't have to worry about hardeners or any other anchored mods.
Cute E
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-02-11 00:39:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Cute E
A dread goes to 14-16k DPS only when in siege, that's on a 5 minute timer, during which usually everyone and their mother within a 9 ly radius will surge towards your location to whore on your KM.

You have two options, it seems to me that you don't have a lot of manpower at your disposal:
- all those people mentioned in gank Oracles - with normal MF loaded - warp to 10km, blap POS, go for coffee, do the dishes, etc; it will take a long time but if you get dropped (suppose someone actually bothers for three ti3's), you'll lose <500m in total before insurance.
- drop dread, siege, blap the POS and pray. Have an extraction cyno ready and be fast, technically sieged dreads can't be tackled, but they will spam the scrams/points on you if you get dropped and jumping out requires right clicking like a baws. If you die, the total sum goes a lot higher, about 5-6 times the ti3's total worth.


Don't put a carrier in space as DPS. Don't use what you can't afford to lose. Don't be a ****** (keep eyes on all gates surrounding the system on the other side, not in the system), watch local and if you see a Velator warping in you should start praying in turbo mode.

LE: judge the tower DPS by its resist profile. It's inefficient to shoot anything else but EM/Th at an Amarr tower, but depends on what you have on your hands, etc. Also when understaffed, it's preferable to use lasers, as the crystals will last forever - as I said, T1 Multifrequency.
Bishop Aidartier
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2013-02-11 04:08:38 UTC
Cute E wrote:
A dread goes to 14-16k DPS only when in siege, that's on a 5 minute timer, during which usually everyone and their mother within a 9 ly radius will surge towards your location to ***** on your KM.

You have two options, it seems to me that you don't have a lot of manpower at your disposal:
- all those people mentioned in gank Oracles - with normal MF loaded - warp to 10km, blap POS, go for coffee, do the dishes, etc; it will take a long time but if you get dropped (suppose someone actually bothers for three ti3's), you'll lose <500m in total before insurance.
- drop dread, siege, blap the POS and pray. Have an extraction cyno ready and be fast, technically sieged dreads can't be tackled, but they will spam the scrams/points on you if you get dropped and jumping out requires right clicking like a baws. If you die, the total sum goes a lot higher, about 5-6 times the ti3's total worth.


Don't put a carrier in space as DPS. Don't use what you can't afford to lose. Don't be a ****** (keep eyes on all gates surrounding the system on the other side, not in the system), watch local and if you see a Velator warping in you should start praying in turbo mode.

LE: judge the tower DPS by its resist profile. It's inefficient to shoot anything else but EM/Th at an Amarr tower, but depends on what you have on your hands, etc. Also when understaffed, it's preferable to use lasers, as the crystals will last forever - as I said, T1 Multifrequency.


Sounds like a subcapital fleet is a better way for our group to go, thanks for sharing your ideas!
sbreach
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2013-02-12 02:31:05 UTC
The Oracles do sound pretty ideal.


If you want to stay really cheap and have a fair few people, sentry vexors could work too. Just a set of Drone damage amps and Garde IIs will do near enough 500 dps. That leaves mids and high for what you want. You could put tackle mods and guns on and damps if someone wants to come along and try to snipe you they might get a little surprise. Benefit of this is, target tower, tell drones to fire, unlock tower (the Drones will keep firing regardless if you have the tower locked or not). Set all ewar modules active awaiting a target, have settings so you auto lock when you are locked, anyone who targets you will be auto ewarred for more afk survivability. Get a few of these vexors set up orbiting a can or so to up transversal and you got a cheap afk offline pos basher.

This way the most expensive things will probably be clone costs.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#10 - 2013-02-12 18:50:36 UTC
If not to worried about cost, battleships will out DPS teir 3 BC's. For example Typhoons are cheap, and fit for max DPS can put out over 1400DPS. $ ships averaging 1000 DPS each(4000 DPS total) will take down a small offline POS in about 1 hour. 4 1400DPS Phoons will do it in about 45 minutes. it is hard to get a teir 3 BC much past 800 DPS without faction damage mods. Picking ships that can use a full flight of heavy drones or sentries helps a lot as they need no ammo.

A domi with a full rack of blasters and heavy drones with drone and hybrid damage mods will put out a lot of hurt on a offline POS. if online then you may need rails.

An Armageddon with a full rack of T2 pulse with MF crystals and a full flight of heavy drones will put out good DPS with no ammo costs.

A single dread, If you can hit the resist holes, should take down a small POS in 20 minutes if siege mode is used. But as already mentioned, that is a big risk. 4 Dreads though should kill it in one siege cycle (5 minutes).

There are many ways to take down a POS, but personally I find it much easier to get even cheap battleships over 1000 DPS than teir 3 BC's. If you need 6 teir 3 BCs the match the DPS of 4 BS's then it is a cost vs speed issue. But if you only have 4 pilots, using BC's you best plan on a 2 hour siege to take down the tower.

The dread and two BS's could be a good option if it is a quite system where you do not expect to get jumped.