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Intergalactic Summit

 
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The chains you choose to wear.
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von Khan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#41 - 2013-02-11 22:55:02 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Everyone wears chains. That was the whole point. Most people choose their chains. Some (Slaves of the Amarr) do not. I wish people to chose their fate and do so for the best of reasons for the best of outcomes.


So you what them to have the freedom to choose? Tiberious you better activate her implants.

von Khan
Cerise Solette
Doomheim
#42 - 2013-02-11 23:02:29 UTC
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Guns and drones will break my bones,
but Sansha's chains excite me.
So tie me down and jack me in,
and force his peace inside me.
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#43 - 2013-02-11 23:03:54 UTC
von Khan wrote:
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Everyone wears chains. That was the whole point. Most people choose their chains. Some (Slaves of the Amarr) do not. I wish people to chose their fate and do so for the best of reasons for the best of outcomes.


So you what them to have the freedom to choose? Tiberious you better activate her implants.


You do realize I made the choice before I was a member of TS-F, right?
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#44 - 2013-02-11 23:11:24 UTC
von Khan wrote:
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Everyone wears chains. That was the whole point. Most people choose their chains. Some (Slaves of the Amarr) do not. I wish people to chose their fate and do so for the best of reasons for the best of outcomes.


So you what them to have the freedom to choose? Tiberious you better activate her implants.


I am not the integrator, Mr. von Khan. Evi will choose when she is ready to be networked.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#45 - 2013-02-11 23:42:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Samira Kernher
Evi Polevhia wrote:
Everyone wears chains. That was the whole point. Most people choose their chains. Some (Slaves of the Amarr) do not. I wish people to chose their fate and do so for the best of reasons for the best of outcomes.


Then you are choosing the wrong allegiance, because Nation does not want people to be able to choose their fates. For every one of you that chooses it willingly, there are hundreds of thousands that are brainwashed by nanites and forced into service. Just because the people you enslave walk "freely" onto your transports does not make it any different to the Amarr raids on Minmatar worlds.

We all wear chains. Some of us were born into actual chains as slaves. But even those of us that were, still had the freedom of mind to choose to accept or reject the chains we wear, to nurse our own individualities regardless of the shackles around our ankles. That is the difference between the slavery that we lived through, and the "true" slavery that you are entering. No slave, whether current or former or whether they accept it or reject it, would think the slavery Nation offers to be better. It takes away the one base freedom that we were allowed--our minds.

Try thinking about the True Slaves instead of the minority like yourself, miss Polevhia. Just because you had the right to choose, that you are still "not networked", that does not mean that is the case for everyone else in the Nation. As mister Thessalonia stated himself: The Nation does not believe freedom is something worth pursuing. That is what you are joining. If you "wish people to choose their fate," then you are joining the worst possible organization.
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#46 - 2013-02-11 23:57:17 UTC
I think you're mistaking my words. I do not think that Freedom is the goal. If I did I would be working for the Gallente maybe. Utopia is the goal. I posted what I did for the intended audience of the Summit. For the most part this is a gathering place of Capsuleers and powerful individuals who have enough control over their life to choose what ideals they serve. As one of those Capsuleers, I have chosen to follow the Master and do his will.

Over all across all of humanity, not everyone will have a choice. I used to think this was a problem, now I accept that as the way of the world. The stronger control the weaker. The many control the few. The Master controls the Slave. This is the way it will be until the end of time. Even the Amarr must admit that the Master controls the Slave. Master Kuvakei is now my Master, but he was not always such. And as such I had a choice before. I made my choice to dedicate my eternal life to his dream.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#47 - 2013-02-12 00:15:46 UTC
I don't deny this. We all have our place.

I am just telling you that just because you may desire Utopia does not mean that your master also desires it. If he instead creates a dystopia, you will still have to obey. That is what it means to be a slave. You are dedicating your life to Sansha Kuvakei, not "his dream". If he commits evil, you too will be forced to commit evil.

That is what you need to acknowledge. That you are becoming a slave, and that being a slave means that you will serve your master even if his goals turn out to run counter to everything you believe in.
Evi Polevhia
Phoenix Naval Operations
Phoenix Naval Systems
#48 - 2013-02-12 01:49:10 UTC
If I become a slave to his Vision and it brings the serenity of Utopia to the cluster, then that is something I would gladly do. Anyone who says otherwise is a fool or selfish beyond words. I have had small glimpses into Utopia so far. I have seen glimmers and shadows of the Master's Vision. It is not dystopian, but rather a wondrous unity of purpose and life.
von Khan
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#49 - 2013-02-12 01:54:39 UTC
Sounds like someone activated your implants... nice dreams.

von Khan
Ruby Amatucci
Tomorrowland Orphanage
#50 - 2013-02-12 02:33:59 UTC
Yay! Welcome to Nation, Friend Evi! I'm really looking forward to get to know you!

Oh, and don't pay the meanies here any mind. They think everyone in Nation is a janitor.
Takrow Matoris
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2013-02-12 07:52:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Takrow Matoris
Evi Polevhia, I feel sorry for you. You have no idea what you have gotten yourself into. Believing that you have found your Utopia with in the Nation is but a lie. When your mind is not your own, how can you really say your free? Sure our impulses bring a lot of pain and sorrow to people, but it also bring joy and happiness. It's a double edge sword, one that all of us has been struggling to use properly. But at least we try. But to throw all that away just to glimpse into some kind of Utopia, is sad. Not only that, but you are willing to give up what really defines us as being alive. Right now I can't tell if you are alive or just some mindless machine speaking only what has been programmed for you. At least with a impulse you would be seen at alive and would have been given a chance at finding a true Utopia, one created by your own mind, not someone else.
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#52 - 2013-02-12 10:16:44 UTC
Takrow Matoris wrote:
When your mind is not your own, how can you really say your free?


When can we ever truly claim that our mind is our own?

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21
Markius TheShed
T.R.I.A.D
Ushra'Khan
#53 - 2013-02-12 11:26:06 UTC
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:


We never went anywhere. We do, however, tend to believe in action ahead of IGS posturing.

Turnur is not currently in our objectives.



What action do you speak of? I'm yet to see a sustained sansha invasion that lasts longer than a week, The Amarrian occupation of Minmatar systems is more or a threat.

At the moment your just a inconvenience.

**Murientor Tribe** a capsuleer organization composed of radical Minmatar. Since YC107
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#54 - 2013-02-12 11:41:55 UTC
Halete wrote:
Takrow Matoris wrote:
When your mind is not your own, how can you really say your free?


When can we ever truly claim that our mind is our own?


This is exactly what I was going to ask.

You speak of "impulses" being things that arise from the self, but they do not. Impulses are the results of chemical reactions and raw animal instinct. The human being also has another option, called "reason", but reason follows rules and modes of behavior, and so is similarly not something that arises from the self.

What you call free will is nothing more than an illusion. We understand this, and in discarding our reliance on it, we become part of the True Power.
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#55 - 2013-02-12 11:42:21 UTC
Markius TheShed wrote:
Tiberious Thessalonia wrote:


We never went anywhere. We do, however, tend to believe in action ahead of IGS posturing.

Turnur is not currently in our objectives.



What action do you speak of? I'm yet to see a sustained sansha invasion that lasts longer than a week, The Amarrian occupation of Minmatar systems is more or a threat.

At the moment your just a inconvenience.


They aren't occupations, clearly. Try again.
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2013-02-12 13:37:20 UTC
If I might, a tangent;

How does TS-F feel about individuals whose ideals might coincide at many points with Sansha's proposal of 'Utopia', however care not for Kuvakei himself?

It seems to me that in the pursuit of Unity, we must bow to your perished master. Could not another person rise to uplift humanity? Although, I suspect as much that somebody already has adopted his effigy...

It is alien to me to invest so much into a man. Cursed, as any human. I understand many willingly subscribe to his vision foremost, before the individual himself. Be that as it may, I still have to wonder how you can have such certainty that such a flawed creature can fulfill such a perfect plan.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#57 - 2013-02-12 13:54:33 UTC
Halete wrote:
If I might, a tangent;

How does TS-F feel about individuals whose ideals might coincide at many points with Sansha's proposal of 'Utopia', however care not for Kuvakei himself?

It seems to me that in the pursuit of Unity, we must bow to your perished master. Could not another person rise to uplift humanity? Although, I suspect as much that somebody already has adopted his effigy...

It is alien to me to invest so much into a man. Cursed, as any human. I understand many willingly subscribe to his vision foremost, before the individual himself. Be that as it may, I still have to wonder how you can have such certainty that such a flawed creature can fulfill such a perfect plan.


I believe the official position is "That's fine. Stay out of our way and let us build Utopia for you."
Gwen Ikiryo
Alexylva Paradox
#58 - 2013-02-12 14:22:53 UTC
Halete wrote:
If I might, a tangent;

How does TS-F feel about individuals whose ideals might coincide at many points with Sansha's proposal of 'Utopia', however care not for Kuvakei himself?

It seems to me that in the pursuit of Unity, we must bow to your perished master. Could not another person rise to uplift humanity? Although, I suspect as much that somebody already has adopted his effigy...

It is alien to me to invest so much into a man. Cursed, as any human. I understand many willingly subscribe to his vision foremost, before the individual himself. Be that as it may, I still have to wonder how you can have such certainty that such a flawed creature can fulfill such a perfect plan.


I actually had a dialogue on this topic with Ghost Hunter some months ago, I believe, just a few weeks after I became a Capsuleer.

If I recall: (And please feel free to correct me if I am misremembering any points) He stated that the two could function seperately for a time, but since their socities would be so alike, he saw no reason that the two could not eventually intergrate on an atleast quasi-equal level, to fulfill the ambition of humanity/intelligence in general being united under a single banner.

Interestingly, when I asked him about the leadership, he suggested that the "Administration" of both could also hypothetically merge - Meaning Sansha and whatever would be in command of the other potential society - though I believe the specifics of how this would work was never quite clarified, nor was the explict definition of the term "merge".

I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions, I suppose.
Halete
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#59 - 2013-02-12 15:01:54 UTC
Thank-you, Gwen, Tiberious. This is interesting enough if true.

"To know the true path, but yet, to never follow it. That is possibly the gravest sin" - The Scriptures, Book of Missions 13:21
Tiberious Thessalonia
True Slave Foundations
#60 - 2013-02-12 15:18:33 UTC
Gwen Ikiryo wrote:
Halete wrote:
If I might, a tangent;

How does TS-F feel about individuals whose ideals might coincide at many points with Sansha's proposal of 'Utopia', however care not for Kuvakei himself?

It seems to me that in the pursuit of Unity, we must bow to your perished master. Could not another person rise to uplift humanity? Although, I suspect as much that somebody already has adopted his effigy...

It is alien to me to invest so much into a man. Cursed, as any human. I understand many willingly subscribe to his vision foremost, before the individual himself. Be that as it may, I still have to wonder how you can have such certainty that such a flawed creature can fulfill such a perfect plan.


I actually had a dialogue on this topic with Ghost Hunter some months ago, I believe, just a few weeks after I became a Capsuleer.

If I recall: (And please feel free to correct me if I am misremembering any points) He stated that the two could function seperately for a time, but since their socities would be so alike, he saw no reason that the two could not eventually intergrate on an atleast quasi-equal level, to fulfill the ambition of humanity/intelligence in general being united under a single banner.

Interestingly, when I asked him about the leadership, he suggested that the "Administration" of both could also hypothetically merge - Meaning Sansha and whatever would be in command of the other potential society - though I believe the specifics of how this would work was never quite clarified, nor was the explict definition of the term "merge".

I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions, I suppose.


Specifics are impossible to measure in a hypothetical situation such as this, especially as there is currently no other entity that matches the description. It is very much a "Cross that bridge when/if we come to it" situation.