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Why all the hate against Hisec?
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Hatya Otomeya
Doomheim
#61 - 2013-02-11 12:19:27 UTC
Highsec is not even 1/3 of New Eden space available.
Complaining about not being able to start a fight easily in Highsec is just nuts.
That's what's it designed to be.
You want consentual fights without Concord interfering?
Go to LowSec, NullSec or even Wormhole Space, those encompass btw the majority of space in NewEden.
There's players that dont like pvp as there's players that center gameplay on it.
Eve is a place all of you can play in, whatever your preferences are.
Players choose to stay in highsec on purpose, explicitely not to have pvp.
If they wanted to have pvp they'd come to secstat systems where theres no Concord.
You can even have nonconsentual pvp by ganking players in highsec, but there's a cost involved for disrespecting other players free will to play to their own preferences - your ship.

Sorry for my phrasing, english is not my first language.

Fly safe.
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#62 - 2013-02-11 12:26:00 UTC
http://i.imgur.com/WLEke0X.gif

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Aracimia Wolfe
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#63 - 2013-02-11 12:29:20 UTC
I think this sums it up pretty gosh darn well:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=26049

Kill it with Fire!

Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#64 - 2013-02-11 13:46:41 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
The same reason most people scorn trailer parks and southern states. Its because of the people that live there.


OMG so much this.
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#65 - 2013-02-11 14:14:08 UTC
Ralinastrife wrote:
dont think the null low sec people hate high sec...just the mining and the mission runners that never do anything but that...this is an alt but my main is a pvp player...currently im broke so im running missions and mining etc..but once i hit a bil or so im gonna join some pvp encounter rather is null, low , fw, etc.

there has to be a balance of pvp losses and indiviual or corp isk earn rate.

thats why prices of ships and plexes are going up..more isk is being made by players but less ships are being blown up...meaning money loses some value.



Prices of ships is going up (and I think it has stabilized recently) because of simple laws of supply and demand, but you have it backwards. If less ships were being blown up, demand for ships would fall and prices drop.

However, Eve experienced a reduction of supply of minerals when CCP hammered the drone drops and wiped out meta 0 drops in missions, and at the same time supercap manufacturing in null sec went berserk which requires enormous quantities of minerals (1 Nyx used to equal 1000 Hurricanes). Those two factors increased the price of low end minerals in a huge way.

And plexes have dropped significantly the past few weeks. I can only guess as to why, but I do know that the need for plexes for Fanfest tickets has eased as all tickets have been purchased.
Dante Uisen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#66 - 2013-02-11 14:17:21 UTC
DSpite Culhach wrote:
I can fully understand the idea of EvE being PvP centric, and a lot of recent changes swaying away from that, but don't large Alliances already turn large areas of null into ultra-safe zones for their members?


If you want to prove them wrong, there is nothing stopping you... the reason it's safe is because they players make it safe, and it takes both military and diplomatic skills to make something "ultra-safe" in null-sec.
Tazer Ashpool
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#67 - 2013-02-11 14:57:39 UTC
In Soviet EvE Scare Bears live in high and they cry when they lose a pawn because they don't see the whole board.

Don't get me wrong, of course you hate it when you are on the receiving end, but too many vocal whiners in highsec handicap themselves not bothering to HTFU and learn the mechanics to stay out of trouble or find said trouble and the fun of spaceboat violence is more than f1, f2 f3 etc...

Lots of people like to create havoc and tears hence they hunt these high sec grounds for "clueless noobs" that don't know how to align d-scan, learn about local, using DOTland/wormhol/battleclinic to run a checkup of potential "nodogodders" and random assholes that like to shoot your pixels..

Learn the basics of suicide ganking by doing it yourself.

Newbie systems should be in secluded 0.0 areas with GMs afk cloaking 24/7 and randomly killing new players with stealth bombers and pilgrims., then they should be let inside to the real eve..oh wait that is the real eve..

an nwm.
DSpite Culhach
#68 - 2013-02-11 15:54:17 UTC
I found this

http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1211/EVE_Online_Development_Strategy_%28CSM_Public%29.pdf

And its a pretty good read about whats been planned, and it does explain a few things I was after. I also just found and read all the minutes for the last 2 CSM minutes ... 113 pages each ... and it all sounds pretty good, I even saw a few ideas I had mentioned and discussed.

Anyway, I think I've squeezed all I can from here, thanks for the replies.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#69 - 2013-02-11 18:24:59 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
There are a few broken things with high sec but the main problem is some of the people that live there. They whine about things like people blowing up their miners and demand that CCP changes the game to suit them while rufusing to adapt themselves.



Technically that should have 0 effect on anyone else not in highsec though.

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Murk Paradox
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#70 - 2013-02-11 18:40:58 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
The same reason most people scorn trailer parks and southern states. Its because of the people that live there.


OMG so much this.



Not nice to call null trailer parks =(

This post has been signed by Murk Paradox and no other accounts, alternate or otherwise. Any other post claiming to be this holder's is subject to being banned at the discretion of the GM Team as it would violate the TOS in regards to impersonation. Signed, Murk Paradox. In triplicate.
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#71 - 2013-02-11 19:02:56 UTC
DSpite Culhach wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:

Ya know, I've been playing for three years.

I've kept count and this is the 1,132nd time someone has OP'd this topic.

Also - "First of all, my position, as in exactly every other post I have ever made, is that I don't actually care either way on most topics" -- is ironic considering you typed a WALL about this one thing.




I don't care either way, I'm trying to understand what causes the issue people have other then a personal aegnda and not actually making the game better.

I have yet to see a logical argument that explains why changes to ANY sec space actually improves the game universe. If you have seen on, feel free to link it.


My good man, DSpite Culhach.

You are lying. One only has to read through your posts on other subjects to see that you have very hi-sec and non-sandbox opinions. see this post for a very good example of where you are arguing from. Or you could just look through your history of posting. You are a carebear, who is claiming to have a balanced opinion but probably has only explored low- or null-sec to look at it more than play in it. You claim to not care, but you sure as hell do care. Stop claiming how indifferent you are. You aren't.
Rellik B00n
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#72 - 2013-02-11 19:11:20 UTC
o this thread again. Attention once again being focused here.

Its almost like someone is waving a flag for CCP saying "look here CCP, look here, look at all the threads about this thing that is broken!"

see my signature.
[Of a request for change ask: Who Benefits?](https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=199765)
Fredfredbug4
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2013-02-11 22:09:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Fredfredbug4
This topic has been discussed half to death so here is my opinion and the non-hisec opinion in a nutshell.

1. Hi-sec is fine, just not the players that live there.
2. You consent to PVP as soon as you log in
3. Just because you want to live 100% safe and care-free, doesn't mean people will let you.

Watch_ Fred Fred Frederation_ and stop [u]cryptozoologist[/u]! Fight against the brutal genocide of fictional creatures across New Eden! Is that a metaphor? Probably not, but the fru-fru- people will sure love it!
Sarah Schneider
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#74 - 2013-02-11 23:21:10 UTC
DSpite Culhach wrote:
I can fully understand the idea of EvE being PvP centric, and a lot of recent changes swaying away from that, but don't large Alliances already turn large areas of null into ultra-safe zones for their members? Pretty sure the Goons can react a lot harsher then any Concord response, if say, someone decides to go harass it's miners or mission runners. I was under the impression that heavily patrolled Null is way safer to work in that any place in Hisec.

The "idea" of Eve is not about the PvP as it's core, but being a sandbox in nature, it's most definitely going to end up the game being a PvP game. That's also what differentiate null 'ultra-safe zones' (I'm not even sure what this imply) and hisec 'safe zones'. The players is what enables the safe part of nullsec (remember sandbox?), there are no magic unicorns spawning out of nowhere pooping out rainbows to protect you in nullsec, by your example, the Goons are players, CONCORD is not.

People always mistaken null with hostile and hardcore space, it is not. Null just like the word means, is empty, empty space where players can do whatever they want to without interference from NPC entities like CONCORD or gateguns. If you build a fort in the middle of the jungle in a hostile territory, it is always going to be safer inside that fort even compared to your average dark alley in the middle of a big city at night.

"I'd rather have other players get shot by other players than not interacting with others" -CCP Soundwave
La Nariz
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2013-02-11 23:56:00 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
The same reason most people scorn trailer parks and southern states. Its because of the people that live there.


If null-sec folk spent more time playing Eve instead of moaning about hi-sec, perhaps they would get more enjoyment from the game.



It's not like we can fit a tank to null-sec and have the problem be solved. If only it were that simple. Roll

This post was loving crafted by a member of the Official GoonWaffe recruitment team. Improve the forums, support this idea: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=345133
Captain Tardbar
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#76 - 2013-02-11 23:59:50 UTC
Tell me again how all those hi-sec miners came out of Jita and held you down and then had their way with you.

Looking to talk on VOIP with other EVE players? Are you new and need help with EVE (welfare) or looking for advice? Looking for adversarial debate with angry people?

Captain Tardbar's Voice Discord Server
DSpite Culhach
#77 - 2013-02-12 01:24:00 UTC  |  Edited by: DSpite Culhach
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:


My good man, DSpite Culhach.

You are lying. One only has to read through your posts on other subjects to see that you have very hi-sec and non-sandbox opinions. see this post for a very good example of where you are arguing from. Or you could just look through your history of posting. You are a carebear, who is claiming to have a balanced opinion but probably has only explored low- or null-sec to look at it more than play in it. You claim to not care, but you sure as hell do care. Stop claiming how indifferent you are. You aren't.



I don't appreciate someone saying I am lying when I am not. Accusations in a forum, well, call the spanish inquisition.

Your opinion is totally worthless when you have no idea what you are talking about. You can not possibly have ANY Idea why I play or how I play, so don't even try, because basically by making this type of statements, you make a massive fool of yourself.

EDIT:

I got all the answers I wanted AFTER I was pointed to CSM documents for December 2012. It explained quite clearly what CCP thought of High/LOw/Null and what direction they actually had, it was the first time I actually saw the problem explained logically, while in here, all I am getting is ranting again - like you just did - and no actual conversation.

Either post an actual opinion on the subject or move on. My god, why do I even have to spell it out ...

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#78 - 2013-02-12 02:40:13 UTC
DSpite Culhach wrote:
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:


My good man, DSpite Culhach.

You are lying. One only has to read through your posts on other subjects to see that you have very hi-sec and non-sandbox opinions. see this post for a very good example of where you are arguing from. Or you could just look through your history of posting. You are a carebear, who is claiming to have a balanced opinion but probably has only explored low- or null-sec to look at it more than play in it. You claim to not care, but you sure as hell do care. Stop claiming how indifferent you are. You aren't.



I don't appreciate someone saying I am lying when I am not. Accusations in a forum, well, call the spanish inquisition.

Your opinion is totally worthless when you have no idea what you are talking about. You can not possibly have ANY Idea why I play or how I play, so don't even try, because basically by making this type of statements, you make a massive fool of yourself.

EDIT:

I got all the answers I wanted AFTER I was pointed to CSM documents for December 2012. It explained quite clearly what CCP thought of High/LOw/Null and what direction they actually had, it was the first time I actually saw the problem explained logically, while in here, all I am getting is ranting again - like you just did - and no actual conversation.

Either post an actual opinion on the subject or move on. My god, why do I even have to spell it out ...


I certainly CAN have an idea why or how you play. The language you use in your posts and where you post says a lot about your attitude for the game and what is important to you. This is true for all people who post to the forums. You clearly are not indifferent and I made an observation. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but at least other people have the links if they want to see how indifferent you are.
DSpite Culhach
#79 - 2013-02-12 03:54:18 UTC
Smohq Anmirorz wrote:
[quote=DSpite Culhach]
I certainly CAN have an idea why or how you play. The language you use in your posts and where you post says a lot about your attitude for the game and what is important to you. This is true for all people who post to the forums. You clearly are not indifferent and I made an observation. I'm sorry if you don't like it, but at least other people have the links if they want to see how indifferent you are.


You certainly CAN, but its rather pointless to assume its correct, when its NOT. It was not an observation, it was an accusation.

My primary interest in EvE is exploring the mechanics. In order to get to see as much as possible I have to do things in order, in whatever time I have allowed to me. My attitude is to see logical class of game play and a semblance of a living, dynamic universe. All my posts would reflect that. I'm questioning why things are a ceratin way when I can't see the logic behind the decision, sometimes a decision that was made 5+ years in the past.

This topic was meant to ask why some people had major issues with high sec, as I could not find any CCP info on what they had originally expected for the different zones to play out like, and game play seemed to work more or less as intented. A lot of balance is usually simply pushed one way or the other by players, and not necessarily bad mechanics.

Just because you cant see the forest for the trees as the expression goes, It's not something I can fix. You are still wrong regarding me, but of course you won't see that as you have already accused of being a lier, so if it;s going to go "I say, you say" there is not much of a point of you keeping this up, unless you actually post something regarding the TOPIC.

I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy
Caldari State
#80 - 2013-02-12 04:05:02 UTC


You certainly CAN, but its rather pointless to assume its correct, when its NOT. It was not an observation, it was an accusation.

My primary interest in EvE is exploring the mechanics. In order to get to see as much as possible I have to do things in order, in whatever time I have allowed to me. My attitude is to see logical class of game play and a semblance of a living, dynamic universe. All my posts would reflect that. I'm questioning why things are a ceratin way when I can't see the logic behind the decision, sometimes a decision that was made 5+ years in the past.

This topic was meant to ask why some people had major issues with high sec, as I could not find any CCP info on what they had originally expected for the different zones to play out like, and game play seemed to work more or less as intented. A lot of balance is usually simply pushed one way or the other by players, and not necessarily bad mechanics.

Just because you cant see the forest for the trees as the expression goes, It's not something I can fix. You are still wrong regarding me, but of course you won't see that as you have already accused of being a lier, so if it;s going to go "I say, you say" there is not much of a point of you keeping this up, unless you actually post something regarding the TOPIC.

[/quote]
your history speaks well enough

Or how about a quote from one of your posts that speaks volumes about your carebear view: "The only way to have a dynamic universe full of life and activity is to have players that simply do day to day stuff, like mine, run missions, sell loot cheaply to new player, build the odd hull or ammo reserves in out of the way stations, move your parcels around, etc etc"

Good day, sir.