EVE General Discussion

I just noticed this. Making Eve easier and less risky will make it boring. Jumping into null and PvPing everyday is exciting because it is scary and risky. Your implants are part of that risk, if you want lower risk then wear cheaper implants. The player who wears expensive implants has an advantage and pays for that advantage in greater risk.

I hate the jumpclone timer myself, but it is one of the limitations that we need to plan for, without those limitations there is no planning required, and that is a big part of Eve. He who plans better has an advantage. Also the jumpclone timer is one of the things that keeps NewEden a big place, the shorter that timer is the smaller New Eden is.

As for clone prices; if someone doesn't want to put their clone at such risk then they can go to Empire space to PvP. Risking your pod is one of the things that separates Null sec from Empire space.

Doing away with these risks and limitations would make NewEden a smaller less exciting place.

I don't know about you but my clone cost after 1.2 hits is going to skyrocket.
Flying something under BC size will not be an option, even BC size ships my clone will cost almost as much (if not the same), if I want somehow to have fun flying smaller stuff or just because I have to and loose pod without implants it's a couple hours ratting like a window licker just to pay for the pod.
(already reduced login time because unlike many against this change having a family and a job it's my main concern)

This is completely unfun and only prevents me from login said character if there's no BS fleet going on, the second one being capital/JF pilots guess what...hello high sec.

You have a very short vision of what gaming and fun is and would like Eve to be what it was back in your stone age 2003.

Flash news: it's not and you'll have to get over it sooner than later.

Penalizing players for progression is bad, brings nothing fun or smart decisions, it's poor gaming design and completely opposed to what fun is meant to be when you dare to log in to Eve online servers and dedicate time/money to it.

It's rather with guys like me capable to see this is wrong and tell it out loud with no complex to simple minded players that this game evolves, simple minded sheep product buyers are always happy with whatever amount of crap they get thrown at their face and still have the boldness to say "thank you good sir", they should ask a private server beta version of Eve.

This clone cost stupid thing has to go away for the overall good of this game, by adjusting market/trading fees it would get more isk out of the game than any amount of high SP characters that don't play or avoid taking all risk.
You might and will not like my opinion, it's your right, but seems there are more players not liking the current status than the other way around, will you get over it ?

If its a closed issue why the discussion? Take your winnings and move on.

I play Eve because it is a challenge, every move is a puzzle, and there is a cost for mistakes. That is what keeps it interesting and exciting for me.

Many people have been coming back to Eve after long breaks, players who remember what Eve was like in 04 and 05. They are not coming back because they remember the easy old days when loosing ships and clones was a joke, or because they heard that Eve finally caved in to the "themepark" players. They are coming back because they remember Eve as being a challenge.

I wouldn't bet on CCP going one way or the other with this.

I'm definitely a fan of getting rid of clone upgrades completely. Just an annoying and pointless ritual to go through which punishes me for being absentminded and forgetful and rewards me for having a smartphone and Aura.

Or at least have some sort of undock warning dialogue. That's not exactly babying us any more than jumping into low-sec is it?

This.

Clone costs are a bit pointless to be honest. What does the clone cost actually achieve other than an ISK sink?

By that argument ships, mods and implants should also be free. Miners and industrialist could be compensated by NPC purchasing agents and then everyone would be happy.

My opinion on clone costs:

If you are podding in low-sec, null, or WH space, half the cost of the first clone (and start a 23hr hour cooldown).

If you are podded in high-sec, full price and the 23 hour cooldown starts.

If you get podded again during the cooldown, the clone cost is 50% of the price above and the cooldown timer restarts. (ie the lowest price would be 25% of base ever)

Getting podded while a member of FW is the same as getting podded in low-sec (even if you die in high-sec). People at war do not get the protection unless they are also in FW (to avoid exploitation)

Reasoning:
CONCORD protection tax for high-sec pods.
23 hour cooldown to avoid the 'fencepost' problem.
Reducing the cost might encourage more 'risky' behavior.
Capping the reduction to 25% to avoid people from running a 'suicide night'.
People at war do not get the same protection as people in FW unless they are also in FW (to avoid exploitation for cheaper clones)

I would also change the cooldown on the jump clone to 23 hours for the 'fencepost' issue.

Another way to mix things up would be to make pods indestructible and strategically useless like a crew escape pod. A capsule that cannot see local nor be seen, does not show up on overviews, and can only see "gates and stations".


This might seem carebearistic, but the leverage here is that on destruction of any ship that any pod is in results in the damage or loss of implants to the pilot, possibly random, and such implants appearing on the KM.


Trouble is, per the PVP notion about balance and the general gripe about so-called carebears, is the Joe Highsec blitzing incursions with a complete 1BIL implant set does not risk it like Joe Lowsec, who, knowing that podding is inevitable, may forgo implants entirely or stay with cheaper ones.

It's also notable that people with extremely deep pockets can lose clones all day because it's "cheaper" time wise to get podded back to the hangar.

Thus random damage and loss of implants for the entire player spectrum and the lost intel tool of capsules and having to make the "time is money" choice of a capsule SD would certainly stir things up, as well as put PVe players on their toes regarding ship loss (encouraging smarter ship fitting) . I think it would also increase lowsec PVP, since the "inevitable total loss" scenario creates a mental wall unlike what a "probable partial loss" does.

These are of course my .2ISK and those with deep pockets or who have gone without implants all these years, egotistically attached to their decisions, are likely to rage about it.

EVE is a game fundamentally based on PvP and a player driven economy. I think it should be up to the market to decide how much a clone is worth.

We produce biomass through PI, we collect corpses through space combat. Why not add in the ability to produce multitudinous clones through PI or space manufacturing, with the ability to determine a "clone level" (i.e.: longer baking time for better quality brains), and leave it up to the players to decide how much the resource is worth?

So turn clone maintenance over to the players, introduce a new line of industry (suitable for a sovereignty themed expansion, for example) allowing us to build alpha through omega grade clones. Then we, the players, determine the value of that product by selling it on the market and leaving it up to players to stock their clone reserves.

The same market could serve Dust Bunnies and Capsuleers although Dust Bunnies don't currently pay for clones, they just have these reserves magically appearing.

The ISK sinks are still there: PI export costs, some kind of NPC-sourced reactant, sales taxes, clone activation costs, etc.