These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

[Retribution 1.1] Black Ops Little Things - now with Covert Cyno update

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Grath Telkin
Amok.
Goonswarm Federation
#281 - 2013-02-08 11:58:27 UTC
Rek Seven wrote:
How would a slighty delayed local make the system better?


Because it would give the hunter a chance. Right now a pimp officer fit BS in 0.0 is far safer than one in Empire. In empire the same fit would be nuked by suicide gankers that found him and it happens all the time.

literally all the time.


In 0.0 that same ship is actually never going to die if the user simply has a pulse and doesn't fall a sleep at the keyboard.


Thats a skewed system of risk, Local is the reason why.

Your argument becomes defunct because the game developer that makes the game you play agrees fully that Local as an intel tool is broken. They've been saying for years that it gives too much for no effort at all.

Have you ever seen this commercial?:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m0VnzPFxew

This is currently what its like hunting in 0.0, you know, the part of the game thats supposed to be dangerous.

None of your jockeying can change and or deny that as an actual fact of the game, the players agree, the developers agree, its just the risk averse that think they should be immune to harm while making money who are against it.



Malcanis - Without drone assign, the slowcat doctrine will wither and die.
killer139139
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#282 - 2013-02-09 01:50:46 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • Open up the use of Covert Cynosural Field Generators on any Strategic Cruiser that has the Covert Reconfiguration subsystem fitted, as well as on Blockade Runners. This means that the availability of covert cynos is consistent and simple. If you can jump through the bridge you can light the cyno.



    • If this is the case can you open up a second high slot on all the blockade runners as the only one that will be used for the covert cyno would be a prowler.

    Just a note :D
    RubyPorto
    RubysRhymes
    #283 - 2013-02-09 01:58:55 UTC
    killer139139 wrote:
    CCP Fozzie wrote:

  • Open up the use of Covert Cynosural Field Generators on any Strategic Cruiser that has the Covert Reconfiguration subsystem fitted, as well as on Blockade Runners. This means that the availability of covert cynos is consistent and simple. If you can jump through the bridge you can light the cyno.



    • If this is the case can you open up a second high slot on all the blockade runners as the only one that will be used for the covert cyno would be a prowler.

    Just a note :D


    There's this fun feature where you can click through all the Dev posts in a thread by pressing the blue buttons.

    https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2527891#post2527891

    Just a note.

    "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
    Saladin
    Eternity INC.
    Goonswarm Federation
    #284 - 2013-02-09 12:14:59 UTC
    What is being done about the Jump Portal Generation skill? Is it part of the larger rebalance? When Black Ops were introduced you needed strontium to open the bridge, and training jump portal generation beyond level 1 reduced strontium consumption. Then CCP changed it so that no strontium is used. Some of us had trained this skill (Rank 14X btw) up beyond level 1 and got told "oh well it will be useful when you are in a Titan".

    Has CCP given any thought as to the bonus for this skill now that it is useless to Black Ops pilots? Or is this issue simply not on their radar?
    Rek Seven
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #285 - 2013-02-10 00:56:59 UTC
    Grath Telkin wrote:
    Rek Seven wrote:
    How would a slighty delayed local make the system better?


    Because it would give the hunter a chance. Right now a pimp officer fit BS in 0.0 is far safer than one in Empire. In empire the same fit would be nuked by suicide gankers that found him and it happens all the time.

    literally all the time.


    In 0.0 that same ship is actually never going to die if the user simply has a pulse and doesn't fall a sleep at the keyboard.


    Thats a skewed system of risk, Local is the reason why.

    Your argument becomes defunct because the game developer that makes the game you play agrees fully that Local as an intel tool is broken. They've been saying for years that it gives too much for no effort at all.

    Have you ever seen this commercial?:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m0VnzPFxew

    This is currently what its like hunting in 0.0, you know, the part of the game thats supposed to be dangerous.

    None of your jockeying can change and or deny that as an actual fact of the game, the players agree, the developers agree, its just the risk averse that think they should be immune to harm while making money who are against it.





    Climb down from that high horse... I wasn't arguing for local as an intel tool but i don't think a "delayed local" system is the magic wand you make it out to be.

    Lucky for me i live in wormhole space.

    The wishlist is pretty much complete...
    RubyPorto
    RubysRhymes
    #286 - 2013-02-10 01:29:16 UTC
    Rek Seven wrote:


    Climb down from that high horse... I wasn't arguing for local as an intel tool but i don't think a "delayed local" system is the magic wand you make it out to be.

    Lucky for me i live in wormhole space.


    The suggestion is a "slightly" delayed local not a "big-D" delayed local (as you have in WHs). Such that the hunter and the prey become aware of each other at the same time.
    Currently, the hunter becomes aware of the prey only after he loads grid, while the prey is aware of the hunter when the hunter unloads the previous grid (the traditional Appears in Local > Gatefire > Load grid order).

    It's not a magic wand because it's not meant to be. It's meant to reduce the amount of dimwitted inattentiveness you need to display in order to get caught.

    "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
    BORG HELLinHEAVEN
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #287 - 2013-02-10 22:46:44 UTC
    What about change the requeriment to light a covert cyno (cynusural field LV 5) to LV 4, covert jumps apears to not be so frequently used because people really dont like to wast time training cyno to LV 5. Besides i dont considere this a wast of time. Any way, lv 4 whould make it very more popular.
    CCP Fozzie
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #288 - 2013-02-11 10:31:19 UTC
    Hey everyone, just a reminder that the Retribution 1.1 patch release date has been changed to Feb 19th, as announced in the news update last week.

    Game Designer | Team Five-0

    Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
    Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
    Omnathious Deninard
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #289 - 2013-02-11 11:22:29 UTC
    Has there been any desision on weather or not blacks ops are going to be split into two ships or remain just one?

    If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
    CCP Fozzie
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #290 - 2013-02-11 11:49:27 UTC
    Omnathious Deninard wrote:
    Has there been any desision on weather or not blacks ops are going to be split into two ships or remain just one?


    No larger changes to the Black Ops will be happening in 1.1, and the complete revamp is too far off to make that decision yet.

    Game Designer | Team Five-0

    Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
    Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
    Dominus Alterai
    Star Freaks
    #291 - 2013-02-11 12:23:36 UTC
    Awww, I liked the potential ability to fit a cov ops to a titan...even though you need 7 officer co-processors and a T2 overclock rig :) OH well. This seems a bit more useful anyway.

    On another note, LOVE the black ops buff. They desperately needed it. Now if you could only light cov ops cynos in high sec...

    Reducing your holes to a quivering mess since 2009.
    Dominus Alterai
    Star Freaks
    #292 - 2013-02-11 12:27:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Dominus Alterai
    Saladin wrote:
    What is being done about the Jump Portal Generation skill? Is it part of the larger rebalance? When Black Ops were introduced you needed strontium to open the bridge, and training jump portal generation beyond level 1 reduced strontium consumption. Then CCP changed it so that no strontium is used. Some of us had trained this skill (Rank 14X btw) up beyond level 1 and got told "oh well it will be useful when you are in a Titan".

    Has CCP given any thought as to the bonus for this skill now that it is useless to Black Ops pilots? Or is this issue simply not on their radar?


    THIS. Maybe include a 10% reduction on cap cost per level? Not game breaking and its still slightly helpful

    Also, sorry for double post.

    Reducing your holes to a quivering mess since 2009.
    Bum Shadow
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #293 - 2013-02-11 20:44:38 UTC
    CCP Fozzie wrote:
    Hey everyone, just a reminder that the Retribution 1.1 patch release date has been changed to Feb 19th, as announced in the news update last week.


    Anyone who has ever played a game ever in their life assumes all patches are released the week following their initially stated date.

    Doesn't stop us being disappointed EVERY time it happens.
    Travasty Space
    Pilots of Epic
    #294 - 2013-02-11 21:39:31 UTC
    RubyPorto wrote:
    What "issue" is that?

    You've admitted that you can adjust your behavior to avoid the consequences of a possibly active hostile being in system (and further claimed that only idiots get caught by them, by claiming that the only rational response is to assume that they are active), so you've admitted that they can be countered (preventing a hunter from catching anything = countering that hunter). So the issue can't be a claim that they have no counter.

    You also haven't provided an example of another way for Local to not provide both knowledge of the hostile presence and knowledge of the hostile's activity level (showing up once every half hour means that he will be active at least every 30min, so if he's cloaked for more than 30min, he's active. Being probeable (with however much inaccuracy) means that not being able to find him means he's active [not to mention, you'd likely be able to triangulate their position with your suggestion]). So either suggestion results in local now providing both knowledge of presence and of activity.

    3. Get better at baiting.

    4. So you would continue economic activity with a known active hostile in system? Continue Ratting and Mining? You were saying that you safe up when there is a known active hostile in system and that you consider all possibly active hostiles to be always active, so I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say now. Besides that, suggesting that a probability of <1 equals a probability of 1 is, frankly, silly.


    I'm back \○/

    The issue is that indefinite Afk cloaking creates wormhole*null-sec risk without the reward as well as the cloaker being in the same spot of being invincible as you speak against.

    Haha ok then, Awoxing is a counter to local and dscan, a counter is a counter no? Neither are true counters, discouragements maybe but not counters.

    As you continue to show with your really bad ideas about ways to 'fix' or counter afk cloaking, my thoughts on local would be equally bad(though I am a fan of a 30-60 second delay on entering local, a delayed transponder ping or something). Local still doesn't note activity with either of the suggestions. Just as it is now you have to put effort into finding out if they are active(and trying to triangulate is part of the idea, so if you want to effectively locate someone cloaked you would need to do it multiply times, either with one person or with a gang).

    4. You still didn't read "we move to a system w/o a red" though as cloaky campers become more common that becomes more difficult. The probability is 0< and it isn't like the weather where if the the probability is simply for true/false.
    Omnathious Deninard
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #295 - 2013-02-11 21:42:51 UTC
    Travasty Space wrote:
    RubyPorto wrote:
    What "issue" is that?

    You've admitted that you can adjust your behavior to avoid the consequences of a possibly active hostile being in system (and further claimed that only idiots get caught by them, by claiming that the only rational response is to assume that they are active), so you've admitted that they can be countered (preventing a hunter from catching anything = countering that hunter). So the issue can't be a claim that they have no counter.

    You also haven't provided an example of another way for Local to not provide both knowledge of the hostile presence and knowledge of the hostile's activity level (showing up once every half hour means that he will be active at least every 30min, so if he's cloaked for more than 30min, he's active. Being probeable (with however much inaccuracy) means that not being able to find him means he's active [not to mention, you'd likely be able to triangulate their position with your suggestion]). So either suggestion results in local now providing both knowledge of presence and of activity.

    3. Get better at baiting.

    4. So you would continue economic activity with a known active hostile in system? Continue Ratting and Mining? You were saying that you safe up when there is a known active hostile in system and that you consider all possibly active hostiles to be always active, so I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say now. Besides that, suggesting that a probability of <1 equals a probability of 1 is, frankly, silly.


    I'm back \○/

    The issue is that indefinite Afk cloaking creates wormhole*null-sec risk without the reward as well as the cloaker being in the same spot of being invincible as you speak against.

    Haha ok then, Awoxing is a counter to local and dscan, a counter is a counter no? Neither are true counters, discouragements maybe but not counters.

    As you continue to show with your really bad ideas about ways to 'fix' or counter afk cloaking, my thoughts on local would be equally bad(though I am a fan of a 30-60 second delay on entering local, a delayed transponder ping or something). Local still doesn't note activity with either of the suggestions. Just as it is now you have to put effort into finding out if they are active(and trying to triangulate is part of the idea, so if you want to effectively locate someone cloaked you would need to do it multiply times, either with one person or with a gang).

    4. You still didn't read "we move to a system w/o a red" though as cloaky campers become more common that becomes more difficult. The probability is 0< and it isn't like the weather where if the the probability is simply for true/false.

    Go make your own wine thread about AFK cloaking and stop filling this thread with that useless text.

    If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
    DooDoo Gum
    Center for Advanced Studies
    Gallente Federation
    #296 - 2013-02-11 21:46:06 UTC
    xVx dreadnaught wrote:
    Want to make the Black Ops more worthwhile flying?

    Simple, give them their racial EWAR bonus.

    Right now the only ship benefiting from it's racial EWAR bonus is the Widow, and to good effect, because why would I jump a billion isk ship into a fight, when I could throw a stealth bomber into the battle instead, with almost double the DPS at a fraction of the cost?

    Making the Sin a long range point with damps, the Redeemer a close range neut boat like the Pilgrim and the Panther a web bonus like the rapier would make them more worth fielding.

    - Dread


    Right tool right job...
    Rek Seven
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #297 - 2013-02-12 16:24:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
    New black ops role bonus

    "Micro jump drive can be activated while cloaked"


    CCP Fozzie, what do you think?

    The wishlist is pretty much complete...
    Omnathious Deninard
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #298 - 2013-02-12 22:35:45 UTC
    Rek Seven wrote:
    New black ops role bonus

    "Micro jump drive can be activated while cloaked"


    CCP Fozzie, what do you think?

    How about just giving it covert ops cloak

    If you don't follow the rules, neither will I.
    Rikanin
    Mining Reloaded
    The Commonwealth.
    #299 - 2013-02-12 22:56:04 UTC
    Dominus Alterai wrote:
    Saladin wrote:
    What is being done about the Jump Portal Generation skill? Is it part of the larger rebalance? When Black Ops were introduced you needed strontium to open the bridge, and training jump portal generation beyond level 1 reduced strontium consumption. Then CCP changed it so that no strontium is used. Some of us had trained this skill (Rank 14X btw) up beyond level 1 and got told "oh well it will be useful when you are in a Titan".

    Has CCP given any thought as to the bonus for this skill now that it is useless to Black Ops pilots? Or is this issue simply not on their radar?


    THIS. Maybe include a 10% reduction on cap cost per level? Not game breaking and its still slightly helpful

    Also, sorry for double post.


    I'd rather see it lower the cost of fuel for bridging per ship - the disparity between how much it costs a titan to bridge ANY ship and how much it costs a blops to bridge a limited number of ship types seems a little big. Any number of rationales for making it cost more on a blops but does it have to be THAT much more?

    Blops
    149 for a Nemesis
    1052 for a Prowler

    Titan
    2 for a Nemesis
    19 for a Prowler
    27 for a Drake

    Even if you made it 10 or 20 times as expensive to do the covops bridging it would be a great improvement.

    Let the hate and trolls begin
    Rek Seven
    University of Caille
    Gallente Federation
    #300 - 2013-02-12 23:14:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
    Omnathious Deninard wrote:
    Rek Seven wrote:
    New black ops role bonus

    "Micro jump drive can be activated while cloaked"


    CCP Fozzie, what do you think?

    How about just giving it covert ops cloak


    That would be prefered but it might make the ship a bit OP.

    I think if they gave the black ops a bonus like the MJD one along with a buff to the tank, it could finally be a fun ship to fly.

    The wishlist is pretty much complete...