These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123Next page
 

Changing Corp Mechanics to Fix War Dec Mechanics
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#21 - 2013-02-11 21:15:53 UTC
Nikk Narrel wrote:
This would seem to be aimed at one man corps specifically, as those with more players involved would be less likely to skip to NPC corps as quickly or easily.

It seems the current system is designed to discourage what you suggest. This is why it costs to file a war dec, instead of being a free thing.

Rearranging the system to suit you, when the devs obviously do not share your views, seems rather selfish.

In short, why should a single player, (granted one in a one man corp for whatever reason), need to let you target them with impunity in high sec?
This is not a carnival game where you insert ISK for consequence free attacks. If that was the case, bounty hunting would be how this would be handled.

I am unconvinced, so it's a NO from me.


u can dec whatever new corp he makes until he gets the picture and joins an NPC corp and pays appropriate tax. or u can follow him into an incursion and gank his pimped incursion ship. may even make some money if u scoop fast enough.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#22 - 2013-02-11 21:21:29 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
This would seem to be aimed at one man corps specifically, as those with more players involved would be less likely to skip to NPC corps as quickly or easily.

It seems the current system is designed to discourage what you suggest. This is why it costs to file a war dec, instead of being a free thing.

Rearranging the system to suit you, when the devs obviously do not share your views, seems rather selfish.

In short, why should a single player, (granted one in a one man corp for whatever reason), need to let you target them with impunity in high sec?
This is not a carnival game where you insert ISK for consequence free attacks. If that was the case, bounty hunting would be how this would be handled.

I am unconvinced, so it's a NO from me.


u can dec whatever new corp he makes until he gets the picture and joins an NPC corp and pays appropriate tax. or u can follow him into an incursion and gank his pimped incursion ship. may even make some money if u scoop fast enough.

Absolutely.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#23 - 2013-02-11 21:26:36 UTC
Ian Harms wrote:
And I argue that Corps are meant to be more than one player, to benefit more than yourself, and to create one simply to benefit your own wallet by ducking the NPC taxes is simply selfish and not the purpose of creating a corp.

It does not benefit the social structure of Eve to have hundreds of one man corps running around dodging NPC corp taxes. And if there where more than one player in corps which couldn't be dissolved in a flash of a moment, then there would be more fights in high sec which equals more ships bought and sold AND more people learning to pvp in a rather safer environment than Low/Null/W-space

So tell me how can this really be a bad thing? it doesn't prevent individual players from making isk in high sec, as they can do that activity in an NPC corp, it doesn't even prevent them from having their own 1 man corp!!! just if they make a corp they can't instantly drop it and restart a new one within 5 seconds!!

Why is this such a bad thing?

It has no impact on the social structure.

Do you assume these players have some compulsory need to chatter and be social, and they automatically participate based on whether they are in an NPC corp or player run corp?

They created an incentive to leave the NPC corp, likely to balance the cost / benefit analysis some players may have been doing.
But, if they are determined to play solo and avoid contact, we do not have the right to dictate their limits in the game beyond what we can shoot at them.
And with shooting there may be consequences.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#24 - 2013-02-11 21:27:03 UTC
ha, i must have quoted the wrong person or missed the 'reply' button. i cant remember.

must be time for another coffee

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Ian Harms
Troll Legion
#25 - 2013-02-11 21:53:36 UTC


[/quote] u can dec whatever new corp he makes until he gets the picture and joins an NPC corp and pays appropriate tax. or u can follow him into an incursion and gank his pimped incursion ship. may even make some money if u scoop fast enough.[/quote]


So how often would you war dec at 50mil a pop to get no results?
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#26 - 2013-02-11 21:59:11 UTC
Ian Harms wrote:


u can dec whatever new corp he makes until he gets the picture and joins an NPC corp and pays appropriate tax. or u can follow him into an incursion and gank his pimped incursion ship. may even make some money if u scoop fast enough.[/quote]


So how often would you war dec at 50mil a pop to get no results?[/quote]
Waves hand....
"This is not the game mechanic you are looking for...."

Considering the act of declaring war to be in itself a form of economic PvP, you should consider cutting your losses and changing to more successful tactics, like suicide ganking.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2013-02-11 21:59:36 UTC
Ian Harms wrote:


So how often would you war dec at 50mil a pop to get no results?


Why don't you just give up chasing after this one guy in order to grief him? You do realize Eve mechanic is designed intentionally to prevent you from doing just this? Judging from the whine, I'd say it's working as intended.Roll
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#28 - 2013-02-11 22:58:41 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Ian Harms wrote:


So how often would you war dec at 50mil a pop to get no results?


Why don't you just give up chasing after this one guy in order to grief him? You do realize Eve mechanic is designed intentionally to prevent you from doing just this? Judging from the whine, I'd say it's working as intended.Roll



this basically. If you hate them corp that much well then 50 mil a pop is the price you have to pay to feed that fire.


Not worth 50 mil a shot to keep them tied up, well then let the water run under that bridge. Or gank em.

Most of what this dude is saying is why this is in place. This is war dec to avoid sec hit for ganking. the bit about the sad state of one man corps and the evil bears.....can sell that crap to the tourists. I learned to make 1 mans in 0.0. Hell I was told to. Instructions were real clear. If we see any of you tards dying to privateers in jita with an in corp/alliance char bad things will happen. 1 man alt/npc corp hauler aye sir.



As I always say in these threads, its a sad world where I can look to a ganker with respect, they are honest in their dealings. they want your hulk/uber fittings on that BS they jsut go for it. Even have a shot clock for this...how fast till concord says hi.

Also worth noting ganking is a much better way to teach that bear a lesson if that is the intent. Its the suddenness of the ship kill imo. If I have the daft idea to go to jita with a war dec, I know its a question of when, not if, I meet a red along the way. I prepare for this encounter as best I can.

If get my ass jumped cold, no warning, in a .5 system however I see more effectively jsut how cold a place eve is.
Listain Kurvorra
C5 Flight Renegades
Fraternity Auxiliary
#29 - 2013-02-11 23:03:08 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Ian Harms wrote:
In 0.0 you **** someone off we come take your sov, in W-space we burn your wormhole down, in low sec we camp your station, what the hell am I supposed to do with a high sec war dec that costs 50 MILLION ISK to wage when in 30 seconds its useless?!! the mechanic is broken and people are exploiting it


That is why 85% of Eve playerbase is in highsec, genius. I'd say highsec is working as intended.Lol

^ This
Listain Kurvorra
C5 Flight Renegades
Fraternity Auxiliary
#30 - 2013-02-11 23:08:45 UTC
Ian Harms wrote:
And I argue that Corps are meant to be more than one player, to benefit more than yourself, and to create one simply to benefit your own wallet by ducking the NPC taxes is simply selfish and not the purpose of creating a corp.

It does not benefit the social structure of Eve to have hundreds of one man corps running around dodging NPC corp taxes. And if there where more than one player in corps which couldn't be dissolved in a flash of a moment, then there would be more fights in high sec which equals more ships bought and sold AND more people learning to pvp in a rather safer environment than Low/Null/W-space

So tell me how can this really be a bad thing? it doesn't prevent individual players from making isk in high sec, as they can do that activity in an NPC corp, it doesn't even prevent them from having their own 1 man corp!!! just if they make a corp they can't instantly drop it and restart a new one within 5 seconds!!

Why is this such a bad thing?

Actually corps are meant as whatever the player wants it to be, this is a sandbox game, that is why there are pirate corps, if someone wants to dodge tax then let them, to me this seems like what other people have said and I quote "a way to try and grief one player" CCP has implemented a corp design that works, and it works because of the sandbox options, if you take out those options then you might as well pay 15 bucks a month to play W.o.W.
Listain Kurvorra
C5 Flight Renegades
Fraternity Auxiliary
#31 - 2013-02-11 23:17:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Listain Kurvorra
I feel like there is just someone raging about the fact that he can't gank someone in a high sec corp, as I said before the corps have been implemented in a fashion that works really well the corps have not changed to much over the years and for good reason, changing the war dec mechanics to suit your corp is not fair to the game and would take away the element of sandbox gaming. Rather then raging about the fact that you lost out on 50mil to dec someones individual player corp why don't you apply that isk more constructively and dec a corp that is not just one man, sure you may keep a single player from joining incursions in that corp but the fact of the matter is that as you said they can leave an create a new corp for you to deck all over again, this will never change and your idea will not be supported. I personally think the corp mechanics of the game are fine so my answer is a definite NO. There is no point in chasing one man corps off so use that time more constructively and go after real corps to make it worth your time.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#32 - 2013-02-12 02:21:18 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
CCP Dev: "You dec the corp, not the player"

/thread

There is no practical difference between Ratting Corp1 and Ratting Corp2, both one man corps run by the same player. Likewise, there is no difference between for example a mining corp with 20 members and a corp with 1 member in it, with 19 ex-member "friends and allies" in npc corps talking to eachother and forming fleets, etc. during a wardec then having a recruitment spike when the wardec ends.

You can play dumb all you want, everyone knows what's really going on.

I'm sure when CCP planned the wardec revamp they all got together in a room and asked themselves, how can we make sure the majority of players never have to deal with the mechanic we have been working on for months?
Ian Harms
Troll Legion
#33 - 2013-02-12 16:02:18 UTC
I invite the you all to try deccing and incursion corp someday. You don't get a chance to meet them on the way to Jita because 5 minutes after you dec them they destroy the corp - your 50mil is wasted. However the suicide gank is definitely in the works, I just wish I could hit this guys from all sides (when it's a noob I trained for years and he betrays my trust I pretty much come at him at all angles providing the game mechanics allow it, which they don't in current form)
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#34 - 2013-02-12 16:08:27 UTC
Ian Harms wrote:
I invite the you all to try deccing and incursion corp someday. You don't get a chance to meet them on the way to Jita because 5 minutes after you dec them they destroy the corp - your 50mil is wasted. However the suicide gank is definitely in the works, I just wish I could hit this guys from all sides (when it's a noob I trained for years and he betrays my trust I pretty much come at him at all angles providing the game mechanics allow it, which they don't in current form)

You are perfectly welcome to pursue them by legitimate game means. I advise caution that this does not cross over into griefing, as that is simply taking things too far.

As for the rest, the game mechanics are specific to discouraging attacks against specific individuals being easy.
Put a bounty on them, something you think would pay for the ship being used in a suicide gank.

As to changing the game, in particular addressing the obstacles to targeting a specific player, they are there for a reason.
Please respect that.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Ian Harms
Troll Legion
#35 - 2013-02-12 16:31:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Ian Harms
I have yet to hear a very good reason why a CEO who is the most responsible and accountable member in any group can simply drop his corp and responsibilties in a flash
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#36 - 2013-02-12 16:46:57 UTC
Ian Harms wrote:
I have yet to hear a very good reason why a CEO who is the most responsible and accountable member in any group can simply drop his corp and responsibilties in a flash

Your responsibilities as a CEO are to the people in your corp exclusively.

If you are the only person in your corp, you are only responsible to yourself.

So long as all corp members have no objection to the CEO's actions, they are valid.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Ian Harms
Troll Legion
#37 - 2013-02-12 17:18:36 UTC
So as long as you be a CEO with no people in your corp you can have all the financial benefits with no consequinces for your actions eh? On top of that all it benefits is YOU and you aren't really serious about being a CEO, just using the mechanics to enrich yourself? And you think this is good?
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#38 - 2013-02-12 17:24:40 UTC
Ian Harms wrote:
So as long as you be a CEO with no people in your corp you can have all the financial benefits with no consequinces for your actions eh? On top of that all it benefits is YOU and you aren't really serious about being a CEO, just using the mechanics to enrich yourself? And you think this is good?

Why not?

This is not something EVE invented, it is a real world business model as well.
And while real world items do not justify EVE mechanics, they do set an example that people can expect, barring good reasons not to.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Ian Harms
Troll Legion
#39 - 2013-02-12 17:41:15 UTC
Because it's a player using one mechanic to make another mechanic useless.

In high sec the war dec mechanic is there to allow players a means of retribution if they are willing to pay the price. So you think it's okay for me to pay the 50mil isk to war dec or corp, risk it getting allies, but instead just have the CEO duck corp and restart a new one minutes after the dec mail notifies him? Somehow I don't think so
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#40 - 2013-02-12 18:24:03 UTC
Ian Harms wrote:
Because it's a player using one mechanic to make another mechanic useless.

In high sec the war dec mechanic is there to allow players a means of retribution if they are willing to pay the price. So you think it's okay for me to pay the 50mil isk to war dec or corp, risk it getting allies, but instead just have the CEO duck corp and restart a new one minutes after the dec mail notifies him? Somehow I don't think so

He is allowed to surrender or just take a dive or run away.

The war dec was a challenge. He is under no obligation to accept that challenge.

Running from conflict is valid play, if somewhat disappointing for you in this context.

Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked...
Previous page123Next page