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Changing Corp Mechanics to Fix War Dec Mechanics

Author
Ian Harms
Troll Legion
#1 - 2013-02-11 12:48:24 UTC
When a CEO can drop corp instantly and remake a new one after being war decced it's a problem - Taking the responsibility of CEO should be a big decision and responsibility rather than treated as lightly as it is.

CEO's are responsible for making Eve as great as it is, making the player experience better and keeping them motivated. If we have more CEO's that dedicated themselves to the art of building up their team, we'd have a better Eve.

In my opinion good place to start is:
A: Making the CEO unable to skip corp quickly..........There should be a timer delaying a CEO from dropping corp and instantly starting a new one simply to dodge a war dec.

B: When a corp is formed officers should be designated, maybe give these officers an acceptance screen for them to accept the responsibility of the position before a corp actually comes into being.

This would reduce the number of junk corps and high sec 1 person incursion corps setup to dodge NPC corp tax that you can't war dec cuz they can simply drop corp and start a new one.

I feel it would improve the quality of corporations in eve which would improve the chances of a new player finding a good corp and keep him active and playing Eve. Also it would make it so the war dec mechanic is more meaningful. If you can't destroy your corp instantly and start a new one, then there is a chance for the war dec timer to cut in and some pew to actually happen.

Any thoughts?
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#2 - 2013-02-11 13:34:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
I take it you have never had a ceo just say screw it, I am done before.


You really don't want a CEO who just does not give a f..... anymore running your corp. He wants out now, its in your best interest to want him out now as well.

In a best case you get a good bye e-mail, a final farewell in comms and after that you jsut don't see them. Maybey they will even give thier stuff to corp or a trusted friend. Bills need paid, they run the wallet, well them bills ain't getting paid if they jsut say I am done but the account still lingers around.


In a worst case you get say the famous kartoon emo rage quit of doom. He basically said there were the pubbies and the core goons worth a damn. The latter were a very small part of of goons a few years ago. The pubbies...he shafted, with a vengeance. Granted this at alliance level but same princible applies....when you top person jsut does not give 2 craps anymore, they need to be ousted ASAP. If you like keeping any corp assets, well corp assets that is anyway. If they are willing to drop like a stone, it really is for the best.

Rest of this stuff...dead horse leave empire. Going back to kartoon times. I was in delve in IT on one char. I forget the day goons imploded and died. I will pull wednesday out of thin air and say this was the day it happened (someone can correct me with the right day if they want to lol). On Tuesday we had a dec with goons, we shot them they shot us. Wednesday kartoon says screw it, lets purge this cesspool...we still shot each other. And on on the following days when the goon alliance was no more (hence the war dec no longer valid), we shot them.

No longer war targets mind you. They shattered into lots of splinter crews. It take billions to war dec em all . Enter NBSI. yay its solodrakbansolosolodrakbansolodrakbansolo. You shot them for 2 reasons. They were neuts, and the damn name screwed up formatting on these boards something fierce.

Moral of the story....hate people avoiding war dec, go to a place where only one color is safe, blue (well its green and purple in there too...but you get the point).
Ian Harms
Troll Legion
#3 - 2013-02-11 16:53:27 UTC
Please don't write a novel if only 1% of my post pertains to you
Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
#4 - 2013-02-11 17:01:09 UTC
Ian Harms wrote:
In my opinion good place to start is:
A: Making the CEO unable to skip corp quickly..........There should be a timer delaying a CEO from dropping corp and instantly starting a new one simply to dodge a war dec.

B: When a corp is formed officers should be designated, maybe give these officers an acceptance screen for them to accept the responsibility of the position before a corp actually comes into being.

Any thoughts?


A: There is a 24 hour timer when any member of a corp has roles assigned to them.

B: Any member may manually remove their own roles and also set their character to not accept any new roles.

Thank you.
Ian Harms
Troll Legion
#5 - 2013-02-11 17:01:37 UTC
And there are other mechanics for ousting CEOs - this has nothing to do with that.
Ian Harms
Troll Legion
#6 - 2013-02-11 17:11:18 UTC
War dec is a high sec game mechanic to allow corps to seek to punish others who blow their mouths off, steal or whatever then hide behind concord. Now gentlemen if a person uses a alt corp in high sec to make isk for himself. The CEO and often only member can simply drop corp to duck a war dec and be back isking under a new corp in no time.

There! Spelled out!
Asuka Solo
I N E X T R E M I S
Tactical Narcotics Team
#7 - 2013-02-11 17:24:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Asuka Solo
Ian Harms wrote:
War dec is a high sec game mechanic to allow corps to seek to punish others who blow their mouths off, steal or whatever then hide behind concord. Now gentlemen if a person uses a alt corp in high sec to make isk for himself. The CEO and often only member can simply drop corp to duck a war dec and be back isking under a new corp in no time.

There! Spelled out!


And the current corp mechanics is a way to legitimately punish war deccers using non-consensual denial of legitimate pvp...

The deccers can re-deck the new corp.

I don't see the problem...

Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk!

Ian Harms
Troll Legion
#8 - 2013-02-11 17:30:07 UTC
Do you guys play Eve? How much does it cost to dec a corp? Do you even know?! If you did THEN you would see the problem. Look it up
Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
#9 - 2013-02-11 17:45:56 UTC
Ian Harms wrote:
Do you guys play Eve? How much does it cost to dec a corp? Do you even know?! If you did THEN you would see the problem. Look it up


50 million ISK to make a declaration of war towards a PRC.

And what do you do when the "CEO" just says "eff it" and goes into an NPC corp until you get bored?

No. What you propose is not a good solution to the problem. It forces people to stay in a corp they don't want to. It forces them to play with an identity they don't want to.

What you want is a personal declaration of intent to harm on one pilot. This is the idea you should start discussing as it will solve many problems, including the one you listed.

But forcing a person to stay in a corp or play under a flag they don't want to is not a good idea at all.

Thank you.
Listain Kurvorra
C5 Flight Renegades
Fraternity Auxiliary
#10 - 2013-02-11 18:56:04 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
I take it you have never had a ceo just say screw it, I am done before.


You really don't want a CEO who just does not give a f..... anymore running your corp. He wants out now, its in your best interest to want him out now as well.

In a best case you get a good bye e-mail, a final farewell in comms and after that you jsut don't see them. Maybey they will even give thier stuff to corp or a trusted friend. Bills need paid, they run the wallet, well them bills ain't getting paid if they jsut say I am done but the account still lingers around.


In a worst case you get say the famous kartoon emo rage quit of doom. He basically said there were the pubbies and the core goons worth a damn. The latter were a very small part of of goons a few years ago. The pubbies...he shafted, with a vengeance. Granted this at alliance level but same princible applies....when you top person jsut does not give 2 craps anymore, they need to be ousted ASAP. If you like keeping any corp assets, well corp assets that is anyway. If they are willing to drop like a stone, it really is for the best.

Rest of this stuff...dead horse leave empire. Going back to kartoon times. I was in delve in IT on one char. I forget the day goons imploded and died. I will pull wednesday out of thin air and say this was the day it happened (someone can correct me with the right day if they want to lol). On Tuesday we had a dec with goons, we shot them they shot us. Wednesday kartoon says screw it, lets purge this cesspool...we still shot each other. And on on the following days when the goon alliance was no more (hence the war dec no longer valid), we shot them.

No longer war targets mind you. They shattered into lots of splinter crews. It take billions to war dec em all . Enter NBSI. yay its solodrakbansolosolodrakbansolodrakbansolo. You shot them for 2 reasons. They were neuts, and the damn name screwed up formatting on these boards something fierce.

Moral of the story....hate people avoiding war dec, go to a place where only one color is safe, blue (well its green and purple in there too...but you get the point).


Ian Harms wrote:
Please don't write a novel if only 1% of my post pertains to you
You asked for an opinion and he gave it to you, don't be rude about it just because you do not agree with the fact that he wrote a novel for you.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-02-11 18:57:27 UTC
CCP Dev: "You dec the corp, not the player"

/thread
Listain Kurvorra
C5 Flight Renegades
Fraternity Auxiliary
#12 - 2013-02-11 18:59:43 UTC
There is a feature called Shares in a corp, you can buy 6% of the shares and take over CEOship from the current CEO once it has been put to a vote and passed this may not work for 1 man corps but if they are one man corps then they should have the option to leave, I do not agree with taking away that ability, however I do think that it should inflict a punishment timer that bars you from making your own corp for 24 hours that would make it fair and if your corp was stupid enough to Dec a one man corp in the first place then they deserve to lose that money for the dec.
Ian Harms
Troll Legion
#13 - 2013-02-11 20:19:17 UTC
Listain Kurvorra wrote:
There is a feature called Shares in a corp, you can buy 6% of the shares and take over CEOship from the current CEO once it has been put to a vote and passed this may not work for 1 man corps but if they are one man corps then they should have the option to leave, I do not agree with taking away that ability, however I do think that it should inflict a punishment timer that bars you from making your own corp for 24 hours that would make it fair and if your corp was stupid enough to Dec a one man corp in the first place then they deserve to lose that money for the dec.


Finally! one man gets it! except it isn't stupid to war dec a 1 man incursion alt corp - it keeps them from being able to make iskies as incursion fleets won't accept war decced people into their ranks.

But there should be at least a 24 hrs timer!
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-02-11 20:24:15 UTC  |  Edited by: sabre906
Ian Harms wrote:
Listain Kurvorra wrote:
There is a feature called Shares in a corp, you can buy 6% of the shares and take over CEOship from the current CEO once it has been put to a vote and passed this may not work for 1 man corps but if they are one man corps then they should have the option to leave, I do not agree with taking away that ability, however I do think that it should inflict a punishment timer that bars you from making your own corp for 24 hours that would make it fair and if your corp was stupid enough to Dec a one man corp in the first place then they deserve to lose that money for the dec.


Finally! one man gets it! except it isn't stupid to war dec a 1 man incursion alt corp - it keeps them from being able to make iskies as incursion fleets won't accept war decced people into their ranks.

But there should be at least a 24 hrs timer!


Again, you dec the corp, not the player, as CCP stated. Current mechanics is working as intended to keep you from following and griefing a specific player through wardec.

tl;dr:
Wardec mechanics is designed to keep you from doing exactly what you 're trying to do. If you're mad, it's working.Roll
Ian Harms
Troll Legion
#15 - 2013-02-11 20:46:09 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
Ian Harms wrote:
Listain Kurvorra wrote:
There is a feature called Shares in a corp, you can buy 6% of the shares and take over CEOship from the current CEO once it has been put to a vote and passed this may not work for 1 man corps but if they are one man corps then they should have the option to leave, I do not agree with taking away that ability, however I do think that it should inflict a punishment timer that bars you from making your own corp for 24 hours that would make it fair and if your corp was stupid enough to Dec a one man corp in the first place then they deserve to lose that money for the dec.


Finally! one man gets it! except it isn't stupid to war dec a 1 man incursion alt corp - it keeps them from being able to make iskies as incursion fleets won't accept war decced people into their ranks.

But there should be at least a 24 hrs timer!


Again, you dec the corp, not the player, as CCP stated. Current mechanics is working as intended to keep you from following and griefing a specific player through wardec.

tl;dr:
Wardec mechanics is designed to keep you from doing exactly what you 're trying to do. If you're mad, it's working.Roll


Except for one thing buddy - you CAN NOT war dec a NPC corp - so if some poor unfortunate player is dumb enough to incure the wrath of better players - you should be allowed to war dec his incursion corp which is simply a tax dodge to save the isk that an NPC corp would take out of his wallet during incursions! So if some poor unfortunate can't managed to keep from stabbing others in the back, then he should hide in NPC corps and can run his incursions UNMOLESTED!

I don't think creating corporations in Eve only to dodge NPC taxes was CCP's intention for that mechanic!! Do you?
Ian Harms
Troll Legion
#16 - 2013-02-11 20:49:18 UTC
In 0.0 you **** someone off we come take your sov, in W-space we burn your wormhole down, in low sec we camp your station, what the hell am I supposed to do with a high sec war dec that costs 50 MILLION ISK to wage when in 30 seconds its useless?!! the mechanic is broken and people are exploiting it
Ian Harms
Troll Legion
#17 - 2013-02-11 20:56:55 UTC
If you want to argue that you war dec the corp not the player fine!!!.....I agree, if they are a corp then they should be a corp not "a" (a being one single) player! - If they want a corp for financial benefits I'm cool with coming and fighting all of them together! note this would then be pvp and not griefing correct?

I've always considered myself a pvper and my record shows it. I am not malicious just annoyed with the inability to get back at people who deserve it because a "game mechanic" can be exploited
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#18 - 2013-02-11 20:57:54 UTC
Ian Harms wrote:
In 0.0 you **** someone off we come take your sov, in W-space we burn your wormhole down, in low sec we camp your station, what the hell am I supposed to do with a high sec war dec that costs 50 MILLION ISK to wage when in 30 seconds its useless?!! the mechanic is broken and people are exploiting it


That is why 85% of Eve playerbase is in highsec, genius. I'd say highsec is working as intended.Lol
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
#19 - 2013-02-11 20:58:25 UTC
This would seem to be aimed at one man corps specifically, as those with more players involved would be less likely to skip to NPC corps as quickly or easily.

It seems the current system is designed to discourage what you suggest. This is why it costs to file a war dec, instead of being a free thing.

Rearranging the system to suit you, when the devs obviously do not share your views, seems rather selfish.

In short, why should a single player, (granted one in a one man corp for whatever reason), need to let you target them with impunity in high sec?
This is not a carnival game where you insert ISK for consequence free attacks. If that was the case, bounty hunting would be how this would be handled.

I am unconvinced, so it's a NO from me.
Ian Harms
Troll Legion
#20 - 2013-02-11 21:15:29 UTC
And I argue that Corps are meant to be more than one player, to benefit more than yourself, and to create one simply to benefit your own wallet by ducking the NPC taxes is simply selfish and not the purpose of creating a corp.

It does not benefit the social structure of Eve to have hundreds of one man corps running around dodging NPC corp taxes. And if there where more than one player in corps which couldn't be dissolved in a flash of a moment, then there would be more fights in high sec which equals more ships bought and sold AND more people learning to pvp in a rather safer environment than Low/Null/W-space

So tell me how can this really be a bad thing? it doesn't prevent individual players from making isk in high sec, as they can do that activity in an NPC corp, it doesn't even prevent them from having their own 1 man corp!!! just if they make a corp they can't instantly drop it and restart a new one within 5 seconds!!

Why is this such a bad thing?
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