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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Fix bloody NPC aggro switching
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ITTigerClawIK
Galactic Rangers
#61 - 2013-02-11 15:23:11 UTC
Rats switching targets to target that is biggest threat on the field, not seeing a problem here, learn to kill things quicker i guess lol
Yolo
Unknown Nation
#62 - 2013-02-11 15:27:33 UTC
I have to ask: How should the NPC's know if you are "friendly" (Want to kill the NPC ship) or "hostile" want to kill them

Start realizing that eve is a complex game, just as the PvE pilot cannot opt out of PvP interaction, the PvP pilot cannot opt out of PvE interaction.

Engage when the NPC's are dead and shut the hell up.

- since 2003, bitches
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#63 - 2013-02-11 15:28:16 UTC
ITTigerClawIK wrote:
Rats switching targets to target that is biggest threat on the field, not seeing a problem here, learn to kill things quicker i guess lol


b b but that's not FAIR! It's not FAIR if rats don't help me and I have to deal with them too!

^
basically the only argument this guy has, impressed he's managed to spin it into several very prolix posts.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#64 - 2013-02-11 15:32:27 UTC
Yolo wrote:

Engage when the NPC's are dead and shut the hell up.


I'll try that next time. I suppose I just jump into system, figure out what anom they're in and then convo them and ask them to tell me when the wave's almost done right?
Yolo
Unknown Nation
#65 - 2013-02-11 15:36:28 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Yolo wrote:

Engage when the NPC's are dead and shut the hell up.


I'll try that next time. I suppose I just jump into system, figure out what anom they're in and then convo them and ask them to tell me when the wave's almost done right?

Bla bla bla. Do you really mean suddenly there is RISK involved when your trying to gank expensive PVE ships???
Holy crap, the game is no longer like WOW. What should we do!!!

- since 2003, bitches
Meytal
Doomheim
#66 - 2013-02-11 15:44:46 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Mmm mmm mmm, delicious tears.

If wormholers can deal with sleepers firing on them when they try to gank people doing PVE, then nullsec guys should be able to deal with the standard rats doing the same.

You mean the same group of people who can't handle AFK cloakies in local? Maybe your expectations are a little high. Or maybe the lot of them should just go back to Hisec.

The mechanics have changed. Adapt.
Spend some time in w-space to practice. We're friendly. Honest.
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#67 - 2013-02-11 16:14:26 UTC
Meytal wrote:
same group of people who can't handle AFK cloakies in local? Maybe your expectations are a little high. Or maybe the lot of them should just go back to Hisec.


Aye, just the same group:

- "And we cannot play if there's a neutral cloacked in local"
- "And we cannot deal with NPC rats they shoot us"
- "And we cannot do sov war due to structure grinding"
- "And we cannot do small gang PvP cause if we get podded is expensive"
- "And we're poor cause the others are too ritch"

And so on....

Seems like the current null sec state spawned a generation of spoiled cry babies never seen before.
Sol Weinstein
Lunatic Warfare Federation
#68 - 2013-02-11 16:20:44 UTC
Hakan MacTrew wrote:
If EvE is supposed to be primarily about the PvP, then making PvE more like PvP can only result in more people getting GFs and less one-sided riskless ganks. It makes no sense to maintain such a gap between the two concepts.

Now if you take games like Battlefield and Modern Warfare, they are designed so the AI at least works in a similar way to players. Same weapons, same stats. If shot at, the AI takes cover. If you leave yourself exposed, the AI will seek to bring superior numbers and firepower to bear.
I know they are far from similar to EvE, but the principle is the same. Good fights.

Even in WoW and WAR PvE bears similarities to PvP. Take out healers and DPS, leave the tanks for later.

The problem CCP faces is one of agro management. In other games, mobs/rats are far from the areas of open PvP. That's simply cannot happen in EvE.

Is it fair that fair that ratters had to handle full agro from the NPCs while a ganker swanned in, bent them over and proceeded to deflower them against their will, in a very public and very 'uncomfortable' fashion? (Lube not included...)
No.

Is it fair that ratter hunting gankers are now given the same treatment?
No. (But the irony is delicious.)

The logical conclusion is to bridge the gap between PvE and PvP. Both sides will have to work hard for their kicks. The way it should be. Then, its fair.

So, OP. I asked you before but you decided to answer:
What exactly would your problem be with PvE becoming more like PvP?


What is "EvE" ? Please tell us you aren't disrespecting the game and the wonderful name EVE Online.

You may respectfully call EVE Online "EVE". But you should knock your cutesy little moniker off right now.

Thank you.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#69 - 2013-02-11 16:30:46 UTC
Oh hey, it's the HTFU ADAPT OR DIE crowd.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#70 - 2013-02-11 16:36:12 UTC
Here I am, posting in a thread on EVEO. It's a super productive use of my time.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#71 - 2013-02-11 16:38:33 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Oh hey, it's the HTFU ADAPT OR DIE crowd.


Better than the "waaah I want it all to be one sided in my favour" crowd (:
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#72 - 2013-02-11 16:40:41 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Ganthrithor wrote:
Oh hey, it's the HTFU ADAPT OR DIE crowd.


Better than the "waaah I want it all to be one sided in my favour" crowd (:


Yeah it must be such a burden for ratters to watch local and warp out when hostiles come into their system. So taxing. So much more effort than trying to go root out kills. You're right, expecting people to rat without NPC bodyguards is completely unfair.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#73 - 2013-02-11 17:07:20 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Ganthrithor wrote:
Oh hey, it's the HTFU ADAPT OR DIE crowd.


Better than the "waaah I want it all to be one sided in my favour" crowd (:


Yeah it must be such a burden for ratters to watch local and warp out when hostiles come into their system. So taxing. So much more effort than trying to go root out kills. You're right, expecting people to rat without NPC bodyguards is completely unfair.


seems to me those ratters are sticking about and ready to pew u AND the rats when u land. otherwise why are we here?
i guess everything was fine when the rats never swapped targets and helped u get kills by doing most the damage.

u could always try modifying the fit/ship/tactics to resist the rats. tank for the rats in ur area (seeing as most ratters will deal pitiful dps), bring a bigger ship or a friend, kill high dps rats whilst pointing the target...

honestly dnt see why u think u should be able to warp onto the grid and not have to deal with both parties, or why u think CCP should change things so kills are handed to u on a plate like they used to be. Things have changed and the 'HTFU ADAPT OR DIE' adage is appropriate here.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#74 - 2013-02-11 18:17:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Gizznitt Malikite
In my opinion, NPC aggro needs some tweaking...

I do NOT want to see the old days where all rats continually attacked the ratter and ignored the new ship on gird.... At the same time, I don't think the new ship on grid should always receive full aggro.... I'd actually like to aim at a middle ground:

For example: Perhaps rats ignore all interceptors, with the exception of certain NPC frigate types.....
For example: Perhaps BS rats DESPISE logistics or recons... making them primaried as soon as appear on grid....

Rules similar to this could actually go a long way in helping define certain ship roles...

Either way, I agree NPC aggro needs tweaking.... but in the case of a recon showing up on grid to attack a drake.... As the third party I'd probably go after the blingy recon too..... so that doesn't seem so bjorked to me...
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#75 - 2013-02-11 19:02:14 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
In my opinion, NPC aggro needs some tweaking...

I do NOT want to see the old days where all rats continually attacked the ratter and ignored the new ship on gird.... At the same time, I don't think the new ship on grid should always receive full aggro.... I'd actually like to aim at a middle ground:

For example: Perhaps rats ignore all interceptors, with the exception of certain NPC frigate types.....
For example: Perhaps BS rats DESPISE logistics or recons... making them primaried as soon as appear on grid....

Rules similar to this could actually go a long way in helping define certain ship roles...

Either way, I agree NPC aggro needs tweaking.... but in the case of a recon showing up on grid to attack a drake.... As the third party I'd probably go after the blingy recon too..... so that doesn't seem so bjorked to me...


Anything that's not "every rat remotely near your hull size immediately lights you up" would be fine with me.
sabre906
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#76 - 2013-02-11 19:06:06 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
In my opinion, NPC aggro needs some tweaking...

I do NOT want to see the old days where all rats continually attacked the ratter and ignored the new ship on gird.... At the same time, I don't think the new ship on grid should always receive full aggro.... I'd actually like to aim at a middle ground:

For example: Perhaps rats ignore all interceptors, with the exception of certain NPC frigate types.....
For example: Perhaps BS rats DESPISE logistics or recons... making them primaried as soon as appear on grid....

Rules similar to this could actually go a long way in helping define certain ship roles...

Either way, I agree NPC aggro needs tweaking.... but in the case of a recon showing up on grid to attack a drake.... As the third party I'd probably go after the blingy recon too..... so that doesn't seem so bjorked to me...


Anything that's not "every rat remotely near your hull size immediately lights you up" would be fine with me.


In other words, rats should go back to giving you free dps by shooting the carebear only, and not you.Pirate

Here's how you can make that happen: by not fitting a point. Your dangerous opponent isn't fitting one, why are you?Lol
Ager Agemo
Rainbow Ponies Incorporated
#77 - 2013-02-11 19:13:40 UTC
I say bullshit, in whs we kill people all the time on anoms and alike, and npcs have had that AI since forever for us, and are also way stronger than crappy kspace npcs.

learn to play.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#78 - 2013-02-11 19:27:53 UTC
Ager Agemo wrote:
I say bullshit, in whs we kill people all the time on anoms and alike, and npcs have had that AI since forever for us, and are also way stronger than crappy kspace npcs.

learn to play.


You also get all the time in the world to observe and stalk your targets and set up whatever kind of gank you want.

Not so when local is a thing.

Learn to play outside your hole.
Ganthrithor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#79 - 2013-02-11 19:29:01 UTC
sabre906 wrote:
In other words, rats should go back to giving you free dps by shooting the carebear only, and not you.Pirate

Here's how you can make that happen: by not fitting a point. Your dangerous opponent isn't fitting one, why are you?Lol


I have an idea: why don't you rat without going into the sites. It's about as practical as PvPing without a point.
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#80 - 2013-02-11 19:45:36 UTC
Ganthrithor wrote:


You also get all the time in the world to observe and stalk your targets and set up whatever kind of gank you want.

Not so when local is a thing.

Learn to play outside your hole.


so given enough time to observe ur targets everything would be fine? and therefore ur problem is with local?


Ganthrithor wrote:


I have an idea: why don't you rat without going into the sites. It's about as practical as PvPing without a point.


u are terrible. fair amounts of PvP are done without point. as for running sites without being on grid...that has yet to happen.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs