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Crime & Punishment

 
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James315 isnt going far enough

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Agent Trask
Doomheim
#381 - 2013-02-05 05:49:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Agent Trask
Estella Osoka wrote:


You've killed Procurers? Killmail or it didn't happen.


I checked the kill board, and you are absolutely right. I apologize for posting incorrect information here.

We have no Skiff or Procurer kills yet.

We will need to repair this oversight ... we can't have Goofus thinkin' he has recourse.

Thank you for bringing this to my attention.

Join the New Order, buy your permit today, and follow the code.

www.minerbumping.com
enterprisePSI
#382 - 2013-02-05 05:56:45 UTC  |  Edited by: enterprisePSI
First comes the skiffs, then the orcas.... in the end tears.

The tears of the many, outweigh the tears of the few. Or the one. enterprise-psi©
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#383 - 2013-02-05 15:09:01 UTC
Intar Medris wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Hisec has a simple democracy, One Man One Vote. James 315 is the Man, he has the Vote



Him and what army. I have seen corps try and pull **** like this before they didn't last long before they were run off. Despite all the all gankers out there I have never lost a single Hulk to one. 3 Hulkegeddons 2 Two toons and 3 years. Really you guys fuss and fuss low sec PVP is all but dead. Yet you waste all your time shooting ships that can't shoot back in high sec. You war dec a PVE corp then run like bitches when they pull out decently fit PVP ships. Seriously if you guys were hard core PVP you wouldn't be wasting your time high sec or turning Null Sec into a EVE version of Barney. Low sec and Null sec problems aren't with the mechanics it's with the losers that call themselves PVPers. Hell the vast majority of you likely have a PVE alt anyhow.


First of all, the "hisec has a simple democracy" quip was very much tongue in cheek even if I did steal it from a Discworld novel, you need to have your sense of humour bypass reversed.

They seem to be doing pretty well so far, nobody (to my knowledge) has tried to run them off yet, and even if they have, they've failed to do so. I haven't seen any members of James' organisation complaining that lowsec PvP is dead. Mining vessels are totally capable of shooting back, perhaps not effectively but they can shoot back, use the drone bay, fill it with combat drones. I can't comment on the hardcore PvP statement, as I don't have a PvP main, or a PvE alt. I have a PvE main and rarely indulge in PvP.


In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Aglais
Ice-Storm
#384 - 2013-02-05 18:07:34 UTC
I'll agree that botting is terrible, but CCP has and will continue to deal with them. This whole vigilante effort here, to apparently get rid of them but also stamp out the ability of anyone else who mines to turn any sort of profit, pulling in almost no minerals unless they buy into this extortion... Lets say that you and this 'New Order' thing completely get their way here. The miners of highsec are crushed. You somehow manage to get miners to behave exactly as you want them to. The political atmosphere of EVE remains the same, meaning that miners don't go to lowsec for fear of pirates that may or may not be there, and for all intents and purposes there's an unbreakable wall cordoning off nullsec to anyone not in one of those huge alliance blocs. What happens then?

Well, if I had to make a guess, your precious ships for ganking and 'securing' highsec from this 'miner threat' are going to skyrocket in price due to a mineral crunch. Losing destroyers is suddenly going to actually be a big deal.

That is my prediction at least for the logical conclusion of the New Order's attempt to 'civilize' highsec. You're not giving miners purpose by restricting when they can mine and killing them if they don't abide by your rules and accept you as their personal Jesus Christ. This is not enlightenment or bringing stability to anything. This is sabotaging industry and it will not come without it's consequences to literally everyone else who plays the game.

This is coming from a (rusty, from having been out of the game for a bit) combat pilot, my concerns lie wholly in the axis of "will all of my equipment be too expensive to lose ten of in a week suddenly".
Manny Moons
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#385 - 2013-02-05 19:19:53 UTC
Aglais wrote:
...What happens then?

Well, if I had to make a guess, your precious ships for ganking and 'securing' highsec from this 'miner threat' are going to skyrocket in price due to a mineral crunch. Losing destroyers is suddenly going to actually be a big deal.

That is my prediction...


Wouldn't that be good for legitimate miners? Mineral prices should be higher. Bot miners are depressing the market, costing human player-miners their livelihood. We want miners to be paid fairly for their efforts. And a token 10M indulgence is a pittance in comparison to what they will gain from our success.
Intar Medris
KarmaFleet University
#386 - 2013-02-05 19:33:24 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Intar Medris wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Hisec has a simple democracy, One Man One Vote. James 315 is the Man, he has the Vote



Him and what army. I have seen corps try and pull **** like this before they didn't last long before they were run off. Despite all the all gankers out there I have never lost a single Hulk to one. 3 Hulkegeddons 2 Two toons and 3 years. Really you guys fuss and fuss low sec PVP is all but dead. Yet you waste all your time shooting ships that can't shoot back in high sec. You war dec a PVE corp then run like bitches when they pull out decently fit PVP ships. Seriously if you guys were hard core PVP you wouldn't be wasting your time high sec or turning Null Sec into a EVE version of Barney. Low sec and Null sec problems aren't with the mechanics it's with the losers that call themselves PVPers. Hell the vast majority of you likely have a PVE alt anyhow.


First of all, the "hisec has a simple democracy" quip was very much tongue in cheek even if I did steal it from a Discworld novel, you need to have your sense of humour bypass reversed.

They seem to be doing pretty well so far, nobody (to my knowledge) has tried to run them off yet, and even if they have, they've failed to do so. I haven't seen any members of James' organisation complaining that lowsec PvP is dead. Mining vessels are totally capable of shooting back, perhaps not effectively but they can shoot back, use the drone bay, fill it with combat drones. I can't comment on the hardcore PvP statement, as I don't have a PvP main, or a PvE alt. I have a PvE main and rarely indulge in PvP.




By the time 5 scout drones even put a dent in thier shields they would have already destroyed your mining vessel. Drones for a barge serve one of two purposes. 1. A slight almost meaningless increase in yield. 2. Taking care of rats. While a properly tanked Hulk may last long enough for CONCORD to show up or warp out if you haven't been scramed the DPS put out by 5 Medium drones isn't going to take down a ganker in time. Barges are industrial ship not offensive ships, and battle Hulks were nerfed a long time ago. In effect they still can't shoot back

I try to be nice and mind my business just shooting lasers at rocks. There is just way too many asshats in New Eden for that to happen.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#387 - 2013-02-05 19:44:27 UTC
Intar Medris wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Intar Medris wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Hisec has a simple democracy, One Man One Vote. James 315 is the Man, he has the Vote



Him and what army. I have seen corps try and pull **** like this before they didn't last long before they were run off. Despite all the all gankers out there I have never lost a single Hulk to one. 3 Hulkegeddons 2 Two toons and 3 years. Really you guys fuss and fuss low sec PVP is all but dead. Yet you waste all your time shooting ships that can't shoot back in high sec. You war dec a PVE corp then run like bitches when they pull out decently fit PVP ships. Seriously if you guys were hard core PVP you wouldn't be wasting your time high sec or turning Null Sec into a EVE version of Barney. Low sec and Null sec problems aren't with the mechanics it's with the losers that call themselves PVPers. Hell the vast majority of you likely have a PVE alt anyhow.


First of all, the "hisec has a simple democracy" quip was very much tongue in cheek even if I did steal it from a Discworld novel, you need to have your sense of humour bypass reversed.

They seem to be doing pretty well so far, nobody (to my knowledge) has tried to run them off yet, and even if they have, they've failed to do so. I haven't seen any members of James' organisation complaining that lowsec PvP is dead. Mining vessels are totally capable of shooting back, perhaps not effectively but they can shoot back, use the drone bay, fill it with combat drones. I can't comment on the hardcore PvP statement, as I don't have a PvP main, or a PvE alt. I have a PvE main and rarely indulge in PvP.




By the time 5 scout drones even put a dent in thier shields they would have already destroyed your mining vessel. Drones for a barge serve one of two purposes. 1. A slight almost meaningless increase in yield. 2. Taking care of rats. While a properly tanked Hulk may last long enough for CONCORD to show up or warp out if you haven't been scramed the DPS put out by 5 Medium drones isn't going to take down a ganker in time. Barges are industrial ship not offensive ships, and battle Hulks were nerfed a long time ago. In effect they still can't shoot back


Here's a hint, suicide gank ships have no tank, and if you're flying a Hulk, change to a Mackinaw, it tanks better and actually has a cargo hold worthy of the name, alternatively fly a Skiff or a Procuror, they have more than enough tank to withstand an average suicide gank squad as well as a halfway decent cargo capacity. Don't whine, adapt. The gankers have adapted to the barge buff, why can't the miners adapt to the gankers?

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Intar Medris
KarmaFleet University
#388 - 2013-02-05 20:22:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Intar Medris
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Intar Medris wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Intar Medris wrote:
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Hisec has a simple democracy, One Man One Vote. James 315 is the Man, he has the Vote



Him and what army. I have seen corps try and pull **** like this before they didn't last long before they were run off. Despite all the all gankers out there I have never lost a single Hulk to one. 3 Hulkegeddons 2 Two toons and 3 years. Really you guys fuss and fuss low sec PVP is all but dead. Yet you waste all your time shooting ships that can't shoot back in high sec. You war dec a PVE corp then run like bitches when they pull out decently fit PVP ships. Seriously if you guys were hard core PVP you wouldn't be wasting your time high sec or turning Null Sec into a EVE version of Barney. Low sec and Null sec problems aren't with the mechanics it's with the losers that call themselves PVPers. Hell the vast majority of you likely have a PVE alt anyhow.


First of all, the "hisec has a simple democracy" quip was very much tongue in cheek even if I did steal it from a Discworld novel, you need to have your sense of humour bypass reversed.

They seem to be doing pretty well so far, nobody (to my knowledge) has tried to run them off yet, and even if they have, they've failed to do so. I haven't seen any members of James' organisation complaining that lowsec PvP is dead. Mining vessels are totally capable of shooting back, perhaps not effectively but they can shoot back, use the drone bay, fill it with combat drones. I can't comment on the hardcore PvP statement, as I don't have a PvP main, or a PvE alt. I have a PvE main and rarely indulge in PvP.




By the time 5 scout drones even put a dent in thier shields they would have already destroyed your mining vessel. Drones for a barge serve one of two purposes. 1. A slight almost meaningless increase in yield. 2. Taking care of rats. While a properly tanked Hulk may last long enough for CONCORD to show up or warp out if you haven't been scramed the DPS put out by 5 Medium drones isn't going to take down a ganker in time. Barges are industrial ship not offensive ships, and battle Hulks were nerfed a long time ago. In effect they still can't shoot back


Here's a hint, suicide gank ships have no tank, and if you're flying a Hulk, change to a Mackinaw, it tanks better and actually has a cargo hold worthy of the name, alternatively fly a Skiff or a Procuror, they have more than enough tank to withstand an average suicide gank squad as well as a halfway decent cargo capacity. Don't whine, adapt. The gankers have adapted to the barge buff, why can't the miners adapt to the gankers?


Well really don't need a larger hold when I have an alt with an Orca right behind me. 130,000m3 flyable jet can. Then there is the 3 mil an hour I lose from from the lack of the 3rd strip miner. Which given the fact I mine more than a hundred hours per month would cost me more ISK than a new Hulk. Gankers really aren't my concern. I could make enough I ISK per week to buy and fit a shiny new Hulk. Oh and I made my way to Null Sec again. Now just to train full scan that I completely neglected to do. Till then I'll just shoot rats or go back to mining in High sec. Really to honest AFK miners are wasting thier time. I have productive mining down to a fine art. I do best to suck every last .01 ISK I can out of hour of mining.

I try to be nice and mind my business just shooting lasers at rocks. There is just way too many asshats in New Eden for that to happen.
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#389 - 2013-02-05 23:14:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Intar Medris wrote:

Well really don't need a larger hold when I have an alt with an Orca right behind me. 130,000m3 flyable jet can. Then there is the 3 mil an hour I lose from from the lack of the 3rd strip miner. Which given the fact I mine more than a hundred hours per month would cost me more ISK than a new Hulk. Gankers really aren't my concern. I could make enough I ISK per week to buy and fit a shiny new Hulk. Oh and I made my way to Null Sec again. Now just to train full scan that I completely neglected to do. Till then I'll just shoot rats or go back to mining in High sec. Really to honest AFK miners are wasting thier time. I have productive mining down to a fine art. I do best to suck every last .01 ISK I can out of hour of mining.[


That's fair enough, you're multiboxing a whole gang, you're obviously at your keyboard especially with a Hulk, unlike some. I mine myself, and although I don't have an Orca pilot, in my own way I try and make the best of it, I will generally suck every full cycle out of a roid then switch, it's rare for me to pop one, which is always fun when the next miner warps in and doesn't have a survey scanner. Them roids in Amarr space that pop 1/3 of the way through a cycle? that's me Twisted

I fit for the situation and location, my Mackinaw has a reasonable EHP tank. the Procuror can rival most battlecruisers in EHP, I fly that when there's more than a slight possibility of getting ganked.

The New Order go after the AFK and those that they think are situationally unaware, as most highsec combat groups do, sure they catch people who see them coming and are about to hit warp, but most of the time they catch the ones that are asleep at the keyboard, alt tabbed and watching youtube etc.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Intar Medris
KarmaFleet University
#390 - 2013-02-05 23:50:21 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Intar Medris wrote:

Well really don't need a larger hold when I have an alt with an Orca right behind me. 130,000m3 flyable jet can. Then there is the 3 mil an hour I lose from from the lack of the 3rd strip miner. Which given the fact I mine more than a hundred hours per month would cost me more ISK than a new Hulk. Gankers really aren't my concern. I could make enough I ISK per week to buy and fit a shiny new Hulk. Oh and I made my way to Null Sec again. Now just to train full scan that I completely neglected to do. Till then I'll just shoot rats or go back to mining in High sec. Really to honest AFK miners are wasting thier time. I have productive mining down to a fine art. I do best to suck every last .01 ISK I can out of hour of mining.[


That's fair enough, you're multiboxing a whole gang, you're obviously at your keyboard especially with a Hulk, unlike some. I mine myself, and although I don't have an Orca pilot, in my own way I try and make the best of it, I will generally suck every full cycle out of a roid then switch, it's rare for me to pop one, which is always fun when the next miner warps in and doesn't have a survey scanner. Them roids in Amarr space that pop 1/3 of the way through a cycle? that's me Twisted

I fit for the situation and location, my Mackinaw has a reasonable EHP tank. the Procuror can rival most battlecruisers in EHP, I fly that when there's more than a slight possibility of getting ganked.

The New Order go after the AFK and those that they think are situationally unaware, as most highsec combat groups do. sure they catch people who see them coming and are about to hit warp, but most of the time they catch the ones that are asleep at the keyboard, alt tabbed and watching youtube etc.


Well if you come across a system that is completely cherry picked of Pyroxeres well that was me. LOL

I try to be nice and mind my business just shooting lasers at rocks. There is just way too many asshats in New Eden for that to happen.
Aglais
Ice-Storm
#391 - 2013-02-06 01:38:15 UTC
Manny Moons wrote:


Wouldn't that be good for legitimate miners? Mineral prices should be higher. Bot miners are depressing the market, costing human player-miners their livelihood. We want miners to be paid fairly for their efforts. And a token 10M indulgence is a pittance in comparison to what they will gain from our success.



You didn't get my point.

Mineral prices rise. Industrialists need to pay more in order to get the materials they need. So they will raise the prices of their products to turn a profit. Any perceived increase in miner income is going to mean precisely nothing. And then the market shrinks if some industrialists can't keep up with rising mineral costs.
Lin Suizei
#392 - 2013-02-06 02:32:52 UTC
Aglais wrote:
You didn't get my point.

Mineral prices rise. Industrialists need to pay more in order to get the materials they need. So they will raise the prices of their products to turn a profit. Any perceived increase in miner income is going to mean precisely nothing. And then the market shrinks if some industrialists can't keep up with rising mineral costs.


Wouldn't that be a great setup for some emergent gameplay relating to New Eden's economy! :D

Lol I can't delete my forum sig.
Asashi Saraki
State War Academy
Caldari State
#393 - 2013-02-08 16:29:12 UTC
Tara Read wrote:
Sara Arran wrote:
I am a supporter of the New Order but i don't believe we are going far enough.

The afk mining mindset is instilled during the first few weeks in the game, once someone has become a miner they will stay that way. This disease must be nipped in the bud. I believe we must gank new players anywhere outside of noob systems.

Those who respond with the correct mindset should provided with ships, skillbooks, support etc and invited into right thinking corps...those who wish to continue mining have two choices, either join an approved corp with punitive tax rates to fund our reclamation of high sec or risk repeated ganking.

Only by starting early can we rid Eve of this menace.

Sara Arran

Oh that's right. You are ranked number 82,952 on battleclinic. You have 45 kills with ALL of them being mining barges or tech 1 transports. You are a coward. You don't even engage COMBAT ships. Why don't you stray down to Nandeza and pay me a visit. You don't even need to flip a can or worry about your precious CONCORD.

This thread serves no purpose. You serve no purpose. And I'm adding you to one of my combat alts and will be paying you a visit sometime very soon.


Oh snap- **** got real. Lmao!
Tesal
#394 - 2013-02-10 04:09:51 UTC
The New Order are roleplayers.
Wescro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#395 - 2013-02-10 06:45:00 UTC
Tesal wrote:
The New Order are roleplayers.


Yes we play the role of protecting high sec. It's an exceedingly important role given the proliferation of bot aspirancy.

http://crossingzebras.com/2013/02/17/csm8ripardteg/
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#396 - 2013-02-10 07:17:55 UTC
Not sure if OP is trolling, or just awesome.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com
Vengeance Ignited
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#397 - 2013-02-11 07:40:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Vengeance Ignited
Sara Arran wrote:
I am a supporter of the New Order but i don't believe we are going far enough.

The afk mining mindset is instilled during the first few weeks in the game, once someone has become a miner they will stay that way. This disease must be nipped in the bud. I believe we must gank new players anywhere outside of noob systems.

Those who respond with the correct mindset should provided with ships, skillbooks, support etc and invited into right thinking corps...those who wish to continue mining have two choices, either join an approved corp with punitive tax rates to fund our reclamation of high sec or risk repeated ganking.

Only by starting early can we rid Eve of this menace.

Sara Arran


First of all, for players like you that detest the idea of mining, having lots of other people mine makes it easier for you to afford your ships, so you're working directly against your own interest. Second of all, the poor chumps mining in hi sec space (where you brave "pirates" operate) are mining crap ores with crap ships, and probably refining it with crap skills. The real afk mining happens in large nullsec alliances, where you don't dare tread. Where they mine fancy gas and fancy ores with hulks, in a fleet, where the only person at his keyboard is a hauler. TEST for example probably pulls more ores in a day from their semi-afk miners than the value of every ship your computer has ever rendered on your screen since you started playing the game.

But yea, you're a mighty space pirate, hurrrr. Too afraid to even fire your ****** guns.
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#398 - 2013-02-11 15:39:06 UTC
Vengeance Ignited wrote:

First of all, for players like you that detest the idea of mining, having lots of other people mine makes it easier for you to afford your ships, so you're working directly against your own interest. Second of all, the poor chumps mining in hi sec space (where you brave "pirates" operate) are mining crap ores with crap ships, and probably refining it with crap skills. The real afk mining happens in large nullsec alliances, where you don't dare tread. Where they mine fancy gas and fancy ores with hulks, in a fleet, where the only person at his keyboard is a hauler. TEST for example probably pulls more ores in a day from their semi-afk miners than the value of every ship your computer has ever rendered on your screen since you started playing the game.

But yea, you're a mighty space pirate, hurrrr. Too afraid to even fire your ****** guns.

Hi there,

It's great to see Brave Newbies participating in forum discussion! I can only encourage the way your corporation has acted thus far. However, I feel that I should correct some of your mistaken assumptions.

You're right that the destruction of mining ships is likely to cause a minuscule increase in ore prices. On the level at which the New Order is operating, however, it isn't going to be huge enough to negatively affect the prices of the ships we fly. If it ever did reach that level, the incentive to mine would increase, so more miners would come and price would therefore fall again.

Secondly, the New Order operates in ice fields all across highsec. It ganks and bumps ships from retrievers to orcas. These are not 'poor chumps' mining crap ores, and they are not flying crap ships. They are not even using crap skills - have you seen how long it takes to train into a mackinaw properly? No, the carebears in highsec mine in just as much style as the miners in nullsec.

As a member of TEST who frequently treads the large nullsec alliance space, I'd like to debunk the idea that TEST is a mining behemoth with thousands upon thousands of hulks that grind the asteroid belts all over Delve. They don't. Not many people in TEST mine - there's some, sure, but most people prefer to rat or salvage or scam for their ISK. I can't speak for Sara, but personally I've seen lots of titans and I can assure you that we do not bring in 500 billion ISK in mining every day. We probably don't even bring in the value of the ships on the Jita undock right now every day through mining.
Vengeance Ignited
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#399 - 2013-02-11 16:57:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Vengeance Ignited
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:

As a member of TEST who frequently treads the large nullsec alliance space, I'd like to debunk the idea that TEST is a mining behemoth with thousands upon thousands of hulks that grind the asteroid belts all over Delve. They don't. Not many people in TEST mine - there's some, sure, but most people prefer to rat or salvage or scam for their ISK. I can't speak for Sara, but personally I've seen lots of titans and I can assure you that we do not bring in 500 billion ISK in mining every day. We probably don't even bring in the value of the ships on the Jita undock right now every day through mining.


Oh yea, I would have guessed that. However if you include your "renters", I think there's quite a bit of mining going on ;)

I don't really care one way or the other, the brave newbies aren't ever going to rent anything, and we don't do a lot of mining. When we do, it's with the dscan up, since most of our business is conducted on open mumble channels. Some of our best mentors are dudes that were listening in on our mumble to spy and stalk us, until they decided they can't keep their mouth shut and they wanted to be involved. Just ask grim rapper (miner stalker extraordinaire), he came into nullsec with us and we had to add him to our fleet (yes, as a war target) because new dudes logging in were hauling ass over to our fleet, didn't know about our arrangement, and started unloading into him. And then even after that there were problems tho, because a lot of us really are newbs, and with a ****** overview set up war targets still show up as red even when in our fleet.

Sorry about that tangent there. Oh yea, miner bumping in hi sec. Still stupid. At least tag these space jerks as suspects or something.
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#400 - 2013-02-11 17:12:18 UTC
Vengeance Ignited wrote:
Oh yea, I would have guessed that. However if you include your "renters", I think there's quite a bit of mining going on ;)

I don't really care one way or the other, the brave newbies aren't ever going to rent anything, and we don't do a lot of mining. When we do, it's with the dscan up, since most of our business is conducted on open mumble channels. Some of our best mentors are dudes that were listening in on our mumble to spy and stalk us, until they decided they can't keep their mouth shut and they wanted to be involved. Just ask grim rapper (miner stalker extraordinaire), he came into nullsec with us and we had to add him to our fleet (yes, as a war target) because new dudes logging in were hauling ass over to our fleet, didn't know about our arrangement, and started unloading into him. And then even after that there were problems tho, because a lot of us really are newbs, and with a ****** overview set up war targets still show up as red even when in our fleet.

Sorry about that tangent there. Oh yea, miner bumping in hi sec. Still stupid. At least tag these space jerks as suspects or something.

I dunno why 'renters' is in inverted commas. They pay money to use our space, and are not a part of our alliance. They're paying for safe-ish space with nullsec lucrativeness. Most of them don't mine, either, because ratting is still more profitable.