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Why all the hate against Hisec?
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Sariah Kion
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#41 - 2013-02-11 07:56:54 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
Sariah Kion wrote:
High sec is fine. Choices are good and a robust population sliced through many demographics is good for the short and long term health of the game.

Long live freedom of choice and control of your own future and down with the blob.


Or rather: "I want to control what people are allowed to do and not allowed to do; so I will put rules and strictures in place and pretend I'm giving them freedom of choice".


High Sec rules have been around since forever. Its not something new. The galaxy is NOT a completely lawless place no matter how many times the tears flow on this forum by those that are angry because they can not control what others do under the rule of law as given by CCP. There is an Empire and that Empire consists of government entities with vast resources that enforce that rule of law.

You can do what you want. Problem is some cry when its time to pay the price for their transgressions in places where the rule of law reigns supreme instead of some of the narcissistic entities that flood this forum with tears weekly.

[b]Librarian and Exotic Dancer Extraordinaire Champion of the Working Men and Women of Empire Space Anti-Null Sec Opium Den Movement President[/b] Not the woman high sec wants but the Woman high sec needs. [u]A modern girl for a modern world.[/u]
Josef Djugashvilis
#42 - 2013-02-11 08:02:03 UTC
La Nariz wrote:
The same reason most people scorn trailer parks and southern states. Its because of the people that live there.


If null-sec folk spent more time playing Eve instead of moaning about hi-sec, perhaps they would get more enjoyment from the game.

This is not a signature.
Josef Djugashvilis
#43 - 2013-02-11 08:11:37 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Crumplecorn wrote:
The problem with highsec is it shouldn't exist. At least not on the vast scale that it does.

This. Easily half of high-sec systems should be low-sec. This is not to say there shouldn't be a homogenous high-sec, just that there are way too many high-sec systems.



Making more of hi-sec into lo-sec would just mean more empty systems.

Hi-sec should have a decrease in its manufacturing capacity, and lo and null sec should be made more attractive.

CCP did talk some time ago about 'small stake-holding' being possible in null. This would, I believe, get more folk to leave hi-sec for null.

This is not a signature.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#44 - 2013-02-11 08:37:33 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
High Sec rules have been around since forever. Its not something new. The galaxy is NOT a completely lawless place no matter how many times the tears flow on this forum by those that are angry because they can not control what others do under the rule of law as given by CCP. There is an Empire and that Empire consists of government entities with vast resources that enforce that rule of law.

You can do what you want. Problem is some cry when its time to pay the price for their transgressions in places where the rule of law reigns supreme instead of some of the narcissistic entities that flood this forum with tears weekly.


Do yourself a favour mister 4 day School of Applied Knowledge character and play in "highsec" for another couple of months, then come back and post. You probably won't because you've quit by then because living in a safer-than-highsec NPC corp or recyclable 1 man corporation like everyone else does will bore you to tears and you will receive no assistance from anyone who knows what they are doing, and because are no fun and meaningful goals for you to achieve by yourself. Many new players in your position have quit before you have, the odds aren't on your side.

Or post with your main so everyone can see who the person that believes in The Rules (and has been skirting them for years) is.

If you really are a new player, I suggest you get involved in faction warfare, it's pretty good (and cheap!) fun for new players, is a nice income source, and lets you see how ridiculous some people on the forums are about combat. You might even make a few friends, something they'll never do. Let me, on the behalf of the evil Goonswarm Federation, serve as a warning to your future highsec ambitions.
Ai Shun
#45 - 2013-02-11 08:42:04 UTC
Sariah Kion wrote:
High Sec rules have been around since forever. Its not something new. The galaxy is NOT a completely lawless place no matter how many times the tears flow on this forum by those that are angry because they can not control what others do under the rule of law as given by CCP. There is an Empire and that Empire consists of government entities with vast resources that enforce that rule of law.

You can do what you want. Problem is some cry when its time to pay the price for their transgressions in places where the rule of law reigns supreme instead of some of the narcissistic entities that flood this forum with tears weekly.


You seem to be attributing a lot of emotion to a video game and the design thereof. I know it sounds trite - but maybe you should take a step back from that? Calling people narcissists for having a different opinion of a video game is ... well. Small mind, eh?

Now note; I'm not opposed to the idea of having a location where laws are enforced. But where those laws are enforced by omnipotent, indestructible entities it goes against the purity of the sandbox. I don't see that as clever - I see that as god-moding a game.

By all means, criminals should be punished. That punishment set by the society they live in; enforced by the people that make up that society.

But I also reject people who believe that by controlling others they are espousing freedom. Yes, freedom on your terms. That's not being free. That's simply being enslaved to your ideals. Which, well, you've kinda made clear how strongly you feel about it as you believe insulting people is a good way to discuss it Lol
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#46 - 2013-02-11 09:04:00 UTC
Ai Shun wrote:
But where those laws are enforced by omnipotent, indestructible entities it goes against the purity of the sandbox. I don't see that as clever - I see that as god-moding a game.


That was done for a reason, back in the day.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#47 - 2013-02-11 09:15:31 UTC
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:
La Nariz wrote:
The same reason most people scorn trailer parks and southern states. Its because of the people that live there.


If null-sec folk spent more time playing Eve instead of moaning about hi-sec, perhaps they would get more enjoyment from the game.


We will stop posting in high sec whine threads when high sec bears stop posting whine threads
Morrigan LeSante
Perkone
Caldari State
#48 - 2013-02-11 09:24:35 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
We will stop posting in high sec whine threads when high sec bears stop posting whine threads


On balance I'd say the current trend is 'nerf high sec' threads are outnumbering bear whining.

I may be mistake, just my perception (before someone rips apart the forums in an analysis piece P)
TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2013-02-11 09:54:26 UTC
DSpite Culhach wrote:
TL;DR: Just post your brief opinion on what game mechanics make hisec so bad. Thanks.

---

First of all, my position, as in exactly every other post I have ever made, is that I don't actually care either way on most topics, I'm simply trying to understand how EvE works, and pointing out how it looks to me, which may or may not be correct, but rather then explanations, people just say "go play WoW" or similar, which does not help me any.

* If the point is to make people move away from Concord in order to be able to shoot them, I can't see that working. If someone has decided to leave a toon in HS, they have obviously thought it through and it's a game play decision. I have an ALT that just makes all my ammo, converts/sells loot, etc, in order to minimize the percentage losses from low SP skills; it has to stay parked somewhere in hisec.

* If the point is to populate low/null more, people have to join Corps, so again, that would be a game play decision, and they would have done it anyway. I now have a combat toon that can run L4 missions and plexes etc, in any space for basic income, but it's a couple of months away from fully fitting a couple of assault frigs and cruisers I want to fly in for PvP, mostly because of weapons skills, and hull reqs, and based on what I have read about the summer changes, I'm going to wait now, as I already have done the Battlecruiser V / Destroyer V / Racial Cruisers 3 trainings as I was told to.

I can fully understand the idea of EvE being PvP centric, and a lot of recent changes swaying away from that, but don't large Alliances already turn large areas of null into ultra-safe zones for their members? Pretty sure the Goons can react a lot harsher then any Concord response, if say, someone decides to go harass it's miners or mission runners. I was under the impression that heavily patrolled Null is way safer to work in that any place in Hisec.

If you want to cause more diversity, wouldn't it be easier to only have certain things available to players only when in Corps? For example, as Alliances have to pay Corcord for tons of stuff, why not give them better insurance payouts on ships, or discounts from LP stores or similar things. I imagine every person and their dog would be getting their calculators out to find loopholes, but I'd rather see changes that favor people moved to large corps, rather then just making Hisec crappier.

Am I missing something here?


The mentality it breeds of "I have the right to be safe and unoffended at all times"

You wouldn't take up boxing and then complain when people hit you.
Don't undock in eve and then complain when stuff explodes.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2013-02-11 10:12:33 UTC
I reiterate: Hisec is fine. People living in hisec are fine. It's just the whiners nobody can stand. And it's just not the hisec people that whine really. Nerf whiners please.

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#51 - 2013-02-11 10:18:44 UTC
Don't think of it so much as "hate" but as an opportunity to make vast profits as the hysteria takes hold and entire alliances "pitch a tantie"... aka, HAWT emergent gameplay. Blink

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
DSpite Culhach
#52 - 2013-02-11 10:25:34 UTC
TheBlueMonkey wrote:

The mentality it breeds of "I have the right to be safe and unoffended at all times"

You wouldn't take up boxing and then complain when people hit you.
Don't undock in eve and then complain when stuff explodes.


It's sort of going off what I was hoping, and more into the threads that have started before.

I don't see any major issues with any sections of space. People are only populating and starting trade hubs using what tools they have been given. I'm trying to grasp why individuals have an issue with parts of space, as really, if whoever is living there does not want to interact with others and just do his thing, he will have zero net effect in the long term, just like someone that logs in once a day just to update a skill queue.

The majority of the effect will still come from rich, long term, high SP players that do large market manipulation, bulk bulk/sells and .01 ISK transactions, or sell billion ISK modules extracted from 9-10 DED's. The new players and casuals have little chance to effect anything, and what they are doing in the shallow end of the pool is rather insignificant.

You could shut off half of the accounts of people in hisec and only cause a blip on the radar. I don't see how the economy would get better or worse, the change would barely be noticed, if like people insist, these players are just "lone wolf'ing" the EvE content anyway. I don't see why people in Null would be more interested in what hisec'ers do any more then then the Italian government would want to know what mobile phone I'm using.

There was much bigger effects with Incursions and Drone alloys when they came into play, as its a scripted, predictable mechanic that can be farmed, while players can stop playing for weeks when a new game comes out. ie less predictable.


I apparently have no idea what I'm doing.
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
#53 - 2013-02-11 11:26:23 UTC
Definately it's inhabitants. It's just a shame that the game, which has a lot to offer that a lot of people don't get to see. Instead, a lot of people choose to grind up their wallet and do little else. Once they have a shiney ship they think they can pvp, lose off course, might cry and whine in local. That's all fair game as far as I'm concerned, there should be an amount of tear harvesting, but not up to a point people would leave a game they percieve as unfair. It hurts the game on more levels then just annoyance.

"Misanthropy develops when without art one puts complete trust in somebody thinking the man absolutely true and sound and reliable and then a little later discovers him to be bad and unreliable...and when it happens to someone often...he ends up...hating everyone."

I personally do not want 'more people in lowsec'. I'd want more people to understand the intention of the developers. I am amazed at the level of understanding a newbro with some piratical ambitions has over the average hisec miner in just a few weeks. This very fact is why people can kick up, gang up, and make a name for themselves leaving others in the dust behind them. This is good, but it should be promoted more that people spend their ISK on the creation of content above personal wealth. Unless I'm rocking a Suspect timer, hisec inhabitants offer near NPC-levels of interaction. When more interaction is thrust upon them in whatever way (be that ship agression or agressive trade) they crack because there is little understanding of the 99% of the game outside of that trade hub and mining belt.

I still have fun in this protected environment, there is nothing wrong with in terms of game mechanics. Take for example a trader. Ours create vast amounts of personal wealth. When at war, these rich individuals suddenly put ISK forward to the war machine on their own accord. They fly transport and DPS ships and risk their pods to defend what is ours. Can I value these people above the dudes that make my T2 equipment twice as expensive for their own gain, or those that endlessly AFK in a mining belt? I feel I can validate having more respect for content creators then ISK farmers.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#54 - 2013-02-11 11:44:32 UTC
Morrigan LeSante wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
We will stop posting in high sec whine threads when high sec bears stop posting whine threads


On balance I'd say the current trend is 'nerf high sec' threads are outnumbering bear whining.

I may be mistake, just my perception (before someone rips apart the forums in an analysis piece P)


Most start out as high secers whining about something and we turn it on them to show not only how wrong they are but also the problems we face.
Solj RichPopolous
F I G H T C L U B
H A R D L I N E R S
#55 - 2013-02-11 11:44:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Solj RichPopolous
They want more idiots to come and feed their "pro pvp" which involves them sitting in bubbles on gates, F1 approach style pvp combat, and running from an actual challenge and returning with more numbers and or a hot drop. EC- comes to mind as one of the bigger laughable areas.

I find it comical really we are at war with most of the big nullbear alliances and they are just as trashy as the next eve guy. You'd expect fleets to come and fight back even though it is high sec but they always respond with the ol' "oh why dont you come down to our space and fight?". But why would I do this? I don't have supers nor am I interested in that sit motionless no skill game play.

Why can't they make a fleet and come 10 jumps out they're hidey hole and fight my vastly outnumbered gang? After all they're the one who wants to travel through hi-sec to get new ships. We kill a TEST gank fleet and they respond with oh we weren't ready haha.

They seem to be under some impression that fighting on neutral ground (hi-sec) is dishonorable and I should come to an area where they have a clear advantage in the area of capitals (as useless as they are) and hot drops. Last I checked the only difference between hi-sec and null sec is no bubbles and no cynos? If you need that to win you aren't "pro pvp" in the first place. And I don't care about that fact of anyone can shoot me that people spout about. Cause more than likely its some more trashy insignificant BCs or something that show up on the field and we just laugh at their uselessness.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#56 - 2013-02-11 11:49:15 UTC
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
They want more idiots to come and feed their "pro pvp" which involves them sitting in bubbles on gates, F1 approach style pvp combat, and running from an actual challenge and returning with more numbers and or a hot drop.

I find it comical really we are at war with most of the big nullbear alliances and they are just as trashy as the next eve guy. You'd expect fleets to come and fight back even though it is high sec but they always respond with the ol' "oh why dont you come down to our space and fight?". But why would I do this? I don't have supers nor am I interested in that sit motionless no skill game play.

Why can't they make a fleet and come 10 jumps out your hidey hole and fight my vastly outnumbered gang? After all they're the one who wants to travel through hi-sec to get new ships.

They seem to be under some impression that fighting on neutral ground (hi-sec) is dishonorable and I should come to an area where they have a clear advantage in the area of capitals (as useless as they are) and hot drops. Last I checked the only difference between hi-sec and null sec is no bubbles and no cynos? If you need that to win you aren't "pro pvp" in the first place. And I don't care about that fact of anyone can shoot me that people spout about. Cause more than likely its some more trashy insignificant BCs or something that show up on the field and we just laugh at their uselessness.


If you want a fight then you come to us.
Solj RichPopolous
F I G H T C L U B
H A R D L I N E R S
#57 - 2013-02-11 11:51:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Solj RichPopolous
baltec1 wrote:
Solj RichPopolous wrote:
They want more idiots to come and feed their "pro pvp" which involves them sitting in bubbles on gates, F1 approach style pvp combat, and running from an actual challenge and returning with more numbers and or a hot drop.

I find it comical really we are at war with most of the big nullbear alliances and they are just as trashy as the next eve guy. You'd expect fleets to come and fight back even though it is high sec but they always respond with the ol' "oh why dont you come down to our space and fight?". But why would I do this? I don't have supers nor am I interested in that sit motionless no skill game play.

Why can't they make a fleet and come 10 jumps out your hidey hole and fight my vastly outnumbered gang? After all they're the one who wants to travel through hi-sec to get new ships.

They seem to be under some impression that fighting on neutral ground (hi-sec) is dishonorable and I should come to an area where they have a clear advantage in the area of capitals (as useless as they are) and hot drops. Last I checked the only difference between hi-sec and null sec is no bubbles and no cynos? If you need that to win you aren't "pro pvp" in the first place. And I don't care about that fact of anyone can shoot me that people spout about. Cause more than likely its some more trashy insignificant BCs or something that show up on the field and we just laugh at their uselessness.


If you want a fight then you come to us.


See this is the thing I don't have to come to you but if you want new stuff or just not have to deal with me and my associates you have to go through us with a fleet. Or continue to fly around cloakies and we will resort to insta locking trade hubs to **** you off enough until you want to engage. Either way makes no difference to us :).

Don't know what alliance your with but I know your probably tired of loosing freighters and jump freighters. Maybe use some armed escorts to really get my mouth foaming.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#58 - 2013-02-11 12:00:04 UTC  |  Edited by: baltec1
Solj RichPopolous wrote:


See this is the thing I don't have to come to you but if you want new stuff or just not have to deal with me and my associates you have to go through us with a fleet. Or continue to fly around cloakies and we will resort to insta locking trade hubs to **** you off enough until you want to engage. Either way makes no difference to us :).

Don't know what alliance your with but I know your probably tired of loosing freighters and jump freighters. Maybe use some armed escorts to really get my mouth foaming.


I am from Bat Country, the corp that has killed over three trillion isk worth of goods and ships in freighter ganks and sparked countless whinethreads over the last 6 months. I speak for everyone in my corp and alliance when I say come at us bro. We literally dont care about wardecs and our logistics are not impacted at all.
Solj RichPopolous
F I G H T C L U B
H A R D L I N E R S
#59 - 2013-02-11 12:02:41 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Solj RichPopolous wrote:


See this is the thing I don't have to come to you but if you want new stuff or just not have to deal with me and my associates you have to go through us with a fleet. Or continue to fly around cloakies and we will resort to insta locking trade hubs to **** you off enough until you want to engage. Either way makes no difference to us :).

Don't know what alliance your with but I know your probably tired of loosing freighters and jump freighters. Maybe use some armed escorts to really get my mouth foaming.


I am from Bat Country, the corp that has killed over three trillion isk worth of goods and ships in freighter ganks and sparked countless whinethreads over the last 6 months. I speak for everyone in my corp and alliance when I say come at us bro. We literally dont care about wardecs and our logistics are not impacted at all.


Don't think we are at war with you so why comment? And I don't care about your personal silly stats only ships matter and very few are worth anything in this game.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#60 - 2013-02-11 12:07:47 UTC
Solj RichPopolous wrote:


Don't think we are at war with you so why comment? And I don't care about your personal silly stats only ships matter and very few are worth anything in this game.


You boast about killing our freighters then suddenly say they dont matter when you find out the corp you just tried to cheastbeat up against are the biggest freighter gankers in the game.

smooth move.