These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Attention all miners - if you are ganked, its YOUR OWN FAULT.
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#121 - 2011-10-26 08:59:18 UTC
…for the record, with a normal strip miner and without mods to slow your Hulk down, you'll have ~30km of straight flight to mine, and if you want to insta-warp, you'll be flying at a speed that makes it take 7½ minutes to cover that distance. Funnily enough, that's also about how long it takes to fill that unburdened Hulk up, so at that point, you might as well warp off to your dump spot anyway.

As a bonus, throwing more cargo capacity onto that Hulk also slows it down — it takes more time to fill, but you have more time to fly in that insta-warp straight line.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#122 - 2011-10-26 09:10:54 UTC  |  Edited by: The Apostle
Tippia wrote:
…for the record, with a normal strip miner and without mods to slow your Hulk down, you'll have ~30km of straight flight to mine, and if you want to insta-warp, you'll be flying at a speed that makes it take 7½ minutes to cover that distance. Funnily enough, that's also about how long it takes to fill that unburdened Hulk up, so at that point, you might as well warp off to your dump spot anyway.

As a bonus, throwing more cargo capacity onto that Hulk also slows it down — it takes more time to fill, but you have more time to fly in that insta-warp straight line.

So with a total of 25 kills and 3 losses and NONE since 2009, you derived your expertise in these matters from????

Must be an alt yeah?

And Hans with 496 kills and 173 losses derived his expertise how?

Must be an alt too yeah?

PS: Yes I'm an alt. But then I've never professed to being an expert PvP'er either.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Zagdul
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#123 - 2011-10-26 09:13:50 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Tippia wrote:
…for the record, with a normal strip miner and without mods to slow your Hulk down, you'll have ~30km of straight flight to mine, and if you want to insta-warp, you'll be flying at a speed that makes it take 7½ minutes to cover that distance. Funnily enough, that's also about how long it takes to fill that unburdened Hulk up, so at that point, you might as well warp off to your dump spot anyway.

As a bonus, throwing more cargo capacity onto that Hulk also slows it down — it takes more time to fill, but you have more time to fly in that insta-warp straight line.

So with a total of 25 kills and 3 losses and NONE since 2009, you derived your expertise in these matters from????

Must be an alt yeah?


With stats like that, Tippia must be pretty good at survival and potentially someone you should listen to?

I dunno... but 3 losses and none since 2009 offering advise on how to keep yer ship safe sounds like the advice is sound.

Dual Pane idea: Click!

CCP Please Implement
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#124 - 2011-10-26 09:18:24 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
you derived your expertise in these matters from?
Experience and simple maths.
The Apostle
Doomheim
#125 - 2011-10-26 09:20:39 UTC
Zagdul wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
Tippia wrote:
…for the record, with a normal strip miner and without mods to slow your Hulk down, you'll have ~30km of straight flight to mine, and if you want to insta-warp, you'll be flying at a speed that makes it take 7½ minutes to cover that distance. Funnily enough, that's also about how long it takes to fill that unburdened Hulk up, so at that point, you might as well warp off to your dump spot anyway.

As a bonus, throwing more cargo capacity onto that Hulk also slows it down — it takes more time to fill, but you have more time to fly in that insta-warp straight line.

So with a total of 25 kills and 3 losses and NONE since 2009, you derived your expertise in these matters from????

Must be an alt yeah?


With stats like that, Tippia must be pretty good at survival and potentially someone you should listen to?

I dunno... but 3 losses and none since 2009 offering advise on how to keep yer ship safe sounds like the advice is sound.

Get it right Zag. NO KILLS either since 2009. He's done nothing.

And I wouldn't be bragging about your prowess on the field either. Kills yeah - time does that.

As an FC, fn hopeless screaming baby.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
The Apostle
Doomheim
#126 - 2011-10-26 09:37:01 UTC
Tippia wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
you derived your expertise in these matters from?
Experience and simple maths.

Derived from? Watcha using girlie, how many roids you raped without losing a Hulk? I've never lost a Hulk either and I still call this mostly crap. I've done null, WH's lowsec, the whole gambit.

I never lost because I never got unlucky enough. It's mostly a lottery. I stopped mining WH's, lowsec and 0.0 because it's too much of a headfuck sitting and clicking on d-scan every 10 seconds all day.

Even PvP'ers don't have to do that all day.

Half the "advice" in this article is stupidly obvious but it's even stupider to implement.

It's not a drive by shooting ffs. They'e MINING.

Yes it's possible. Yes it can be done. Maybe it should be done. But it's totally impractical and ANY miner worth their salt knows this.

Yes, mining a WH or 0.0 and using these kinds of actions are mostly practical (and neccessary most days) but the rewards are far, far higher than being a miner in highsec slurping on veldspar. Risk v Reward right?

If every miner buzzed out at the first sight of a ganker or a probe it's already usually too late. Gankers know this and guys that have been ganked know this. Warp in cloaked with a "harmless" neut - who will NOT show on d-scan - combined with fast gate jump and warp and it's all over.

What about the "Orca" parked next to you in the belt. Harmless yeah?

Ganking highjsec miners is just fn lame, cowardly and if miners think taking it up the ass for someone else to get kicks and lols is fine then you are just suckers for the lameass crap being served.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#127 - 2011-10-26 09:40:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
The Apostle wrote:
Derived from?
Like I said, experience and simple maths.

Do you wish to present some kind of argument, or just dribble out more fallacies?
Quote:
Yes it's possible. Yes it can be done. Maybe it should be done. But it's totally impractical and ANY miner worth their salt knows this.
It's entirely practical if you want to avoid getting blown up. But you're quite right: the problem is rather that the supposed threat to miners is completely overblown. The risk is close to zero, and in times of increased risk, these kinds of things lets you reduce it to close to zero again.
Quote:
Ganking highjsec miners is just fn lame, cowardly
Good thing that this is not really a game about inefficiency and bravery then. Have you considered the possibility that it's not really your kind of game?
March rabbit
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#128 - 2011-10-26 09:50:25 UTC
SENSATIONS, INTRIGUES, INVESTIGATIONS!

stay tuned! (c)

The Mittani: "the inappropriate drunked joke"
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#129 - 2011-10-26 09:50:46 UTC
The Apostle wrote:

Even PvP'ers don't have to do that all day...


They do when they're running pirate missions in 0.0 with 50 hostiles in local armed with tricked out probing ships, cloaky recons and interdictors, who won't take so much as a sec hit for ganking my Tengu (and if they succeeded, they could get enough loot from me to buy 4 or 5 of your silly Hulks)

After 6 months of ceaseless, paranoid vigilance and meticulous observence of risk mitigation procedure, the score is:

Hostiles: 0
Malc: 10s of billions of ISK earned, zero Tengus lost to gankers.

My DSCAN is kept pretty god damb busy tyvm. I routinely have it open at all times unless I'm flying logis in a large fleet fight or something.

If you're not doing your very best to avoid being attacked by people you don't want to fight, then how can anyone take seriously your claims that it's too easy for people to attack you?

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
The Apostle
Doomheim
#130 - 2011-10-26 09:58:37 UTC
Tippia wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
Derived from?
Like I said, experience and simple maths.

Do you wish to present some kind of argument, or just dribble out more fallacies?
Quote:
Yes it's possible. Yes it can be done. Maybe it should be done. But it's totally impractical and ANY miner worth their salt knows this.
It's entirely practical if you want to avoid getting blown up. But you're quite right: the problem is rather that the supposed threat to miners is completely overblown. The risk is close to zero, and in times of increased risk, these kinds of things lets you reduce it to close to zero again.
Quote:
Ganking highjsec miners is just fn lame, cowardly
Good thing that this is not really a game about inefficiency and bravery then. Have you considered the possibility that it's not really your kind of game?

Reread my last sentence. You're either a lame miner prepared to take one and apologize for being a miner or you're not a miner which means you have no right to speak about what is "right" for miners.

Explain this away Tippia....

Ganker #1 turns up in a Covetor next to you and starts blipping roids. You send him a cheerio, he goes howdy and you have a nice little chat. You even fleet him up and offer the Orca boosts your mates holding for you parked by the sun.

He fills up and warps back to station. It's cool. He's a miner. 2 minutes later he warps back to you - in a Brutix. Bang. You're dead.

What method works here?

Ganker #2 a week later turns up in his Orca. 2 of his mates come with him in Covetors. They park next to the Orca. You chat etc., it's all cool. Happy days. Know what's coming do you? Ready to warp? Blap. Too late.

What method worked here?

Do we now warp away at EVERY ship that arrives in system? Even other miners?

These are just 2 ways off the top of my head in a couple of minutes. Not once can you EVER predict a gank and nor can you EVER be ready for it. All the guff about ways to avoid it are easily circumvented by gankers. There is simply NO counter when using a mining vessel in the capacity it is designed for.

The very fact that you all ACCEPT a suicide gank in highsec with 10 million "expert" methods to "avoid" it proves that you have lost the fight and will continue to lose it until you grow some and take on "the issue".

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
The Apostle
Doomheim
#131 - 2011-10-26 10:04:45 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
The Apostle wrote:

Even PvP'ers don't have to do that all day...


They do when they're running pirate missions in 0.0 with 50 hostiles in local armed with tricked out probing ships, cloaky recons and interdictors, who won't take so much as a sec hit for ganking my Tengu (and if they succeeded, they could get enough loot from me to buy 4 or 5 of your silly Hulks)

After 6 months of ceaseless, paranoid vigilance and meticulous observence of risk mitigation procedure, the score is:

Hostiles: 0
Malc: 10s of billions of ISK earned, zero Tengus lost to gankers.

My DSCAN is kept pretty god damb busy tyvm. I routinely have it open at all times unless I'm flying logis in a large fleet fight or something.

If you're not doing your very best to avoid being attacked by people you don't want to fight, then how can anyone take seriously your claims that it's too easy for people to attack you?

They are MINING - in highsec. Ganking IS illegal, it's WHY it takes a sec loss AND a Concord response. The fact you CAN is a patheticly lame game mechanic.

btw.....
Do you run d-scan missioning?
Do you run d-scan doing PI?
Do you run d-scan doing freighter runs to Jita?

Every 10 seconds. In highsec?

Oranges and Apples Malcanis.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#132 - 2011-10-26 10:07:20 UTC
The Apostle wrote:
Reread my last sentence. You're either a lame miner prepared to take one and apologize for being a miner or you're not a miner which means you have no right to speak about what is "right" for miners.
…or maybe the world of EVE isn't quite nearly as cut and dried as you think it is…
Quote:
Ganker #1 […] What method works here?
All of the ones mentioned in this thread.
Quote:
Ganker #2 […] What method worked here?
Hard to tell unless you explain what happens then… At any rate, staying aligned will work quite nicely.
Quote:
These are just 2 ways off the top of my head in a couple of minutes.
They're not very good ways since they're trivially beaten by staying aligned.
Quote:
The very fact that you all ACCEPT a suicide gank in highsec with 10 million "expert" methods to "avoid" it proves that you have lost the fight and will continue to lose it until you grow some and take on "the issue".
What issue? And what fight have I lost? In particular, what constitutes a loss here?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#133 - 2011-10-26 10:10:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Tippia
The Apostle wrote:
They are MINING - in highsec. Ganking IS illegal, it's WHY it takes a sec loss AND a Concord response. The fact you CAN is a patheticly lame game mechanic.
No, it's just what makes EVE EVE: it's a game mechanic that lets everyone do what they want, including things you don't want them to do. It's neither pathetic, nor lame — it's required.

Welcome to the sandbox.

It's only lame because you don't want the kind of gameplay that it generates and possibly because you haven't quite thought through what it would mean if it were removed. So again, you might want to consider the possibility that this is not the game for you…
Hestia Mar
Calmaretto
#134 - 2011-10-26 10:16:28 UTC
I'm not a bot and so I'd like to point out the the blindingly obvious...if I get ganked its because someome targeted my ship and fired their weapons at me. Quite why that is "my fault" eludes me.

Even though I'm a confirmed carebear, when mining, I always have used d-scan...strangely enough not once has another Mack in a belt ever locked me up and fired on me, so there must be some other thing happening here.

So okay...flame away.
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#135 - 2011-10-26 10:20:33 UTC
All you experts will be mining ice tomorrow in Gal space just to prove how very right you are I take it?

"Cough cough harumph well er ahem mining is boring and um ehhhh i have better things to do and hem haw ahem hem hem."





Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
Jooce McNasty
Islefive Consulting
#136 - 2011-10-26 10:21:06 UTC
Tippia wrote:
…for the record, with a normal strip miner and without mods to slow your Hulk down, you'll have ~30km of straight flight to mine, and if you want to insta-warp, you'll be flying at a speed that makes it take 7½ minutes to cover that distance. Funnily enough, that's also about how long it takes to fill that unburdened Hulk up, so at that point, you might as well warp off to your dump spot anyway.

As a bonus, throwing more cargo capacity onto that Hulk also slows it down — it takes more time to fill, but you have more time to fly in that insta-warp straight line.


No expert on mining because I would rather shove a hot poker up my urethra then mine but why not get an alt in corp with 2-3 web's target the miner then activate and leave the web's on. Drop your speed to next to nothing. This would stop you moving out of range of the roid and when you hit warp it is almost instant.

Smart PVP players know Point before Web or your just helping them get away.

Again no expert but this is another option that could possibly work.
Hestia Mar
Calmaretto
#137 - 2011-10-26 10:22:41 UTC
Tippia wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
They are MINING - in highsec. Ganking IS illegal, it's WHY it takes a sec loss AND a Concord response. The fact you CAN is a patheticly lame game mechanic.
No, it's just what makes EVE EVE: it's a game mechanic that lets everyone do what they want, including things you don't want them to do. It's neither pathetic, nor lame — it's required.

Welcome to the sandbox.

It's only lame because you don't want the kind of gameplay that it generates and possibly because you haven't quite thought through what it would mean if it were removed. So again, you might want to consider the possibility that this is not the game for you…



Tippia,

It seems to me that lots of the Goon's rationale behind their current campaign is that they can't understand why people want to mine 'because its boring' etc...so the Goons' idea must be lame because the game allows gameplay that the Goons don't want.

So maybe the game isn't the one for the Goons, after all it's my EVE, not theirs (taking the Goons' viewpoint and remembering their gamestyle is in the minority)
The Apostle
Doomheim
#138 - 2011-10-26 10:24:25 UTC
Tippia wrote:
The Apostle wrote:
They are MINING - in highsec. Ganking IS illegal, it's WHY it takes a sec loss AND a Concord response. The fact you CAN is a patheticly lame game mechanic.
No, it's just what makes EVE EVE: it's a game mechanic that lets everyone do what they want, including things you don't want them to do. It's neither pathetic, nor lame — it's required.

Welcome to the sandbox.

It's only lame because you don't want the kind of gameplay that it generates and possibly because you haven't quite thought through what it would mean if it were removed. So again, you might want to consider the possibility that this is not the game for you…

So HIGHsec (note emphasis on HIGH)

Has
- Gateguns
- Concord
- Sec status hit
- Wardecs
- Aggression techniques such as can-flipping etc.

Why? For what purpose?

Ganking IS illegal. Period.

The fact that it CAN be done doesn't make it right. It's got nothing to do with "Eve" or "sandbox". If it did, NONE of the above, including the "HIGHsec" labelling would need to exist. The whole universe could just as well be 0.0 and be done with it.

There is a REASON why it's HIGHsec.

Your beliefs in this are no more than a "I'll bend over and take it" excuse because it's too hard to argue. Isn't it?

Gotta stay with the "cool camp" huh Tippia? You bad boy you.

[i]Take an aspirin. If pain persists consult your local priest. WTB: An Austrian kangaroo![/i]
David Grogan
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#139 - 2011-10-26 10:29:01 UTC  |  Edited by: David Grogan
Karadion wrote:
You fail to understand why the miner's are complaining. They want to run their bots without worrying about getting ganked.


no they want mining barges that can actually fit a proper tank......... being able to one shot an uninsurable 220mil fitted hulk, by a 40mil fitted bc that is insured is not fair by any means

all miners want is the ability to better tank their hulks and remove insurance for concord killed gankers.

gankers have it way too easy.

it has nothing to do with bots anymore cos most bot operators are renting russian space now.

Everytime you buy something that says "made in china" you are helping the rising unemployment in your own country unless you are from china, Buy locally produced goods and help create more jobs.
Jennifer Starling
Imperial Navy Forum Patrol
#140 - 2011-10-26 10:37:55 UTC
I really pity the poor little miners.

Not only are they on the bottom of the food chain, ISK/hour wise, not only is their work incredibly boring and their ships paper thin but now they also have to give up their efficiency and relaxed way of life to be always prepared for a suicide attack out of nowhere and earn far less ISK in the meantime. Once proud owners of multibox mining fleets with Orca may as well unsubscribe. Casual highsec players who'd like to make an extra penny with semi-AFK mining may as well leave.

What has this world come to? Sad