EVE General Discussion

Oh lord, this is going to be interesting.

I am fitting up a Tachyon Oracle and a 1400 Tornado the *second* I get my hands on one.

I'm curious as to whether the requirements for the T2 Triage and Siege will be IV or V.

212km optimal and 520 dps with paper-thin Tach sniper fit and Aurora.

Not sure it's really practical when today's "long range" is 80km, however.


On a side note, considering Tornado's and Talos's efficient range/ehp, the dps difference between the two should be greater. i'd suggest replacing the Torando RoF bonus by a damage one, but alpha fleets are already FOTM enough. Maybe removing a gun? The Talos having a web bonus is fine and dandy, but in fleet pvp you won't often have targets in range to use it. Better something that can be used in both blaster and rail fits. How about a second 5% damage bonus?




According to the file, it's V. Get started on training long-ass skills.

It would make it a contender to the Cerb's old anti-support/anti-ECM role (which admittedly sees less use these days), only with instant damage…
How about discussing how/why he's wrong about the effects when we move into larger groups and disprove or at least present a solid case against his claim that the Tornado is unquestionably superior for the reasons he mention?

The benefit of this would be to make you seem able to hold a rational discussion.

It's just that you're reasoning, based on "you can't speak about 1v1", is wrong, at least when similar sizes, roles and costs are concerned.

If ship A is better than ship B in 1v1, then a fleet of 50 ships A will also be better than a fleet of 50 ships B.

Escape? What is that? I want to dive right in and blast the enemy into bloody pulp, and die in flames. It's great to see these changes don't change that scenario, only make the blaster boat style more viable.

+10m/s makes Brutix the second fastest T1 BC, which I think is right. If it was as fast or even nearly as fast as Scythe, it would be OP. Same with Thorax, Incursus has been fine... except fitting issues. Fixes to these hybrid fitting is my main source of joy, along with the very sensible hybrid buffs.

Also, T2 drone upgrades \o/

Indeed, yet another piece of awesomeness.

In regards to Gallente, I do not possess intricate knowledge to eve game mechanics as some people do, but from what I see it doesn't look like Gallente are buffed enough yet to be compared to minmatar. Need more love. Changes to blasters seem fine but propably not enough for people want to fly gallente.

I like the concept of making gallente ships fast in a straight line but have less agility though. I think they propably still wont be fast enough.

ps. No ship should exist with only one midslot.

How about we start at the point where he suggests the tornado is a better blaster ship than the Talos is after citing the fact the Talos holds a much higher DPS?

Oh but wait, damage types. Because we are going to assume that Tornado will automatically be fit against the lowest tanked damage type of the Talos... there aren't 2 other races flying around New Eden that pilot might be prepared for.

Again, not a fan of this type of impractical and extremely stat selective arguments.

Rational discussion? Pot and Kettle much? If I was going to play your card, I could just say "well prove me wrong, where did you prove me wrong?"




I don't know if you've played this game, but there is RARELY a fleet of identical ships fit identically vs 50 of another. It's an impractical and unrealistic hypothetical.

Check in on ships and modules sometime. A 1v1 scenario never works (nor for that matter a 50v50 or 100v100), the fact you're going to say that it does is evidence of your ineptitude.

The game is more complex than that. We're writing off web bonus' based on another ship having falloff, somehow concluding that ship A having less dps than ship B makes ship A better?!?

The argument is asinine at worst, uneducated and completely inapplicable to any in-game scenario at best.



Except where the genius on the last page pointing this out also came right out and said even with max damage t2 ammo the tornado falls short of the talos DPS by roughly 15%

What is the watershed where the advantage of blasters are acceptable?
I fly both but I still see people making very broad generalizations and definite conclusions based on small data samplings and without having even seen these ships in action.

EFT warrioring at it's best.


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All this said I have to ask, what is the recommended fix? Nerf AC's until they are useless? Boost Blaster dps more? What is the acceptable %age they should be above the other weapon classes at 0km? 25%? 50%?

Everyone knows there is no easy answer, not without making another weapon system useless. We've been discussing it for years now. Yet, when hybrids get a much needed boost... we are so quick to say it wasn't enough.

Not to repeat myself too much, but you haven't even seen these ships fly. You have no clue how they are going to perform, you assume based off one fit and one scenario the entire functionality of these ships.

While i understand most of you are excited about those new changes would't it be prudent just to wait till the definite stats and other changes are in a dev blog , Othererwise alot of you will be very dissapointed when CCPdecides to change some numbers at the last moment

…at which point he'd quite rightly point out that you hadn't provided any claims to disprove yet, so it wouldn't be any pot and kettle — just the kettle all on its own.

It will be if you take aboard the (albeit early) feedback on hybrids and the shiny new BC's. :D