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Oneiros vs. The World
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Marcus Alkhaar
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2011-10-23 19:24:31 UTC
[Guardian, LRAB]
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
N-Type Thermic Hardener I
Pseudoelectron Containment Field I
Reactor Control Unit II

10MN Afterburner II
Conjunctive Radar ECCM Scanning Array I

Large 'Arup' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Arup' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Arup' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Arup' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Regard' I Power Projector
Large 'Regard' I Power Projector

Medium Ancillary Current Router I
Medium Trimark Armor Pump I

this is my guardian build, it got 4k more EHP than the oneiros and slightly less rep power (cuz guardian is t2, no ****, try it in EFT)
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2011-10-23 23:37:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Buzzmong
If you go delving into the old forum's F&I, there's a thread by CCP Tallest which encompasses possible changes to the Oneiros:

I'll copypaste for ease of use:

CCP Tallest wrote:
About the Oneiros... What do you think about increasing the armor to about 3000, reducing the sig radius to 70 and adding a little space to the drone bay for spare drones?


If you want to push the issue, the "new" thread is here.

Quite why that boost and the dram changes haven't gone live are beyond me, but CCP do seem to beware the Oneiros is lacking.
Headerman
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#23 - 2011-10-24 01:59:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Headerman
Tanya Powers wrote:
Headerman wrote:
Ironically, the Oneiros makes one of the best ships to use in a small gang when used with other Oneiros's exclusively


That's the biggest issue, logistics for logistics. But just like any other race, bring ten of them and spider tank, they all win.

Why your 20 drake gangs I see so often in null have 4 or 5 Scimis and no Basilisk?

Why your small roaming armor gangs have Guardians and no Oneiros?

There must be a reason, and a serious one when you fight.

Now if you ask me if the Oneiros can do some stuff I'd say yes, behind the station in Dodixie at 60km from undock and with alt remoting the Oneiros.

So, what's the point of using Oneiros vs Guardians?


Unforunately that is also the issue for the Exequror; not enough PG.

I think one issue with the oneiros (besides the lower PG ofc) is the tracking link bonus. If tracking links were high slot mods, then it would make a bit more sense

Australian Fanfest Event https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=90062
Hey Baby Cakes
Drunken Santas
#24 - 2011-10-25 20:21:13 UTC
Some leaked speculation on the next upcoming big patch:

  • Oneiros
  • lowSlots: 4.0 => 5.0
  • maxVelocity: 214.0 => 230.0
  • medSlots: 5.0 => 4.0
  • powerOutput: 850.0 => 1050.0
  • signatureRadius: 80.0 => 70.0
  • warpSpeedMultiplier: 1.0 => 1.25

    • All I can say is YAY! Big smile
    Goose99
    #25 - 2011-10-25 20:25:40 UTC
    Hey Baby Cakes wrote:
    Some leaked speculation on the next upcoming big patch:

  • Oneiros
  • lowSlots: 4.0 => 5.0
  • maxVelocity: 214.0 => 230.0
  • medSlots: 5.0 => 4.0
  • powerOutput: 850.0 => 1050.0
  • signatureRadius: 80.0 => 70.0
  • warpSpeedMultiplier: 1.0 => 1.25

    • All I can say is YAY! Big smile


    Mid slot gimp isn't helpful... The 2 logis that don't have cap chain need extra slots for cap mods to function.
    Tanya Powers
    Doomheim
    #26 - 2011-10-25 20:47:04 UTC
    Marcus Alkhaar wrote:
    There's 1 strongpoint the oneiros got over the guardian. Cap stability with 0 cap transferers.

    [Oneiros, LRAB]
    1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
    Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
    Damage Control II
    Armor Explosive Hardener II

    10MN Afterburner II
    Cap Recharger II
    Cap Recharger II
    Cap Recharger II
    Cap Recharger II

    Large Remote Armor Repair System II
    Large Remote Armor Repair System II
    Large Remote Armor Repair System II
    Medium Remote Armor Repair System II

    Medium Ancillary Current Router I
    Medium Ancillary Current Router I



    LOL fit sry
    Aamrr
    #27 - 2011-10-25 20:58:02 UTC
    Goose99 wrote:
    Mid slot gimp isn't helpful... The 2 logis that don't have cap chain need extra slots for cap mods to function.


    Capacitor power relays give a larger bonus than cap rechargers. Effectively, the Oneiros just got a 5% capacitor buff.
    Tanya Powers
    Doomheim
    #28 - 2011-10-25 21:32:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
    Please let me introduce you the Scimineiros

    Damage Control II
    Power Diagnostic System II
    Power Diagnostic System II
    Power Diagnostic System II

    10MN Afterburner II
    Large Shield Extender II
    Invulnerability Field II
    Invulnerability Field II
    Cap Recharger II

    Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
    Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
    Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
    Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction

    Medium Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I
    Medium Core Defence Field Extender I

    +Implant CR8 cap stable 60% everything running at 100%
    Speed: 268/640
    Resists: 62.5/82/93/77.5
    Shield passive tank: 70.4/s (so lol)

    Has you can see this fit is cap stable and has great mobility but of course will need a scimitar to remote rep it but you know, logistics for logistics are mandatory Lol

    lol fits are lol heh?

    If you ask I can bring more of them, always fun and always lol, I love eft/pyfa worrioring so much makes me feel better than everyone Lol
    steave435
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #29 - 2011-10-25 21:35:52 UTC
    Goose99 wrote:
    Hey Baby Cakes wrote:
    Some leaked speculation on the next upcoming big patch:

  • Oneiros
  • lowSlots: 4.0 => 5.0
  • maxVelocity: 214.0 => 230.0
  • medSlots: 5.0 => 4.0
  • powerOutput: 850.0 => 1050.0
  • signatureRadius: 80.0 => 70.0
  • warpSpeedMultiplier: 1.0 => 1.25

    • All I can say is YAY! Big smile


    Mid slot gimp isn't helpful... The 2 logis that don't have cap chain need extra slots for cap mods to function.

    The Scimi does just fine with that amount of slots.
    This adds 250 grid after skills, and enable you to choose between more cap or more tank while you were previously "forced" to use that slot for cap, and at the same time it gains 7,5% speed while signature is reduced by 12.5%..Those are some pretty significant boosts.
    Aamrr
    #30 - 2011-10-25 23:08:45 UTC
    So wait. The Oneiros gets almost 20% more CPU more than the Guardian, but the Guardian gets only 2.4% more powergrid? When the Guardian has to fit 6 highslot modules, and the Oneiros only has to fit four?

    Does that seem screwed up to anyone else?
    DHB WildCat
    Out of Focus
    Odin's Call
    #31 - 2011-10-25 23:15:58 UTC
    If you put RR on your Onieros.... you are doing something terribly wrong! Twisted
    Tanya Powers
    Doomheim
    #32 - 2011-10-25 23:21:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Tanya Powers
    Aamrr wrote:
    So wait. The Oneiros gets almost 20% more CPU more than the Guardian, but the Guardian gets only 2.4% more powergrid? When the Guardian has to fit 6 highslot modules, and the Oneiros only has to fit four?

    Does that seem screwed up to anyone else?



    No, 20% on top of 850W of the Oneiros is not like 20% on top of the 1075W the Guardian has.

    The Oneiros will still be at 1050W base and Guardian 1100W base after the changes if those numbers are going live and without skills = +/- 8% difference, seems balanced to me.

    I'd like the 1100W on the Oneiros too. Blink

    Edit: Actually with lvl5 skills you get 1344W from the Guardian while only 1063W from the Oneiros = 21% difference with no mods and should be enough to fit bonused cap transfers

    2nd Edit: PG changed from 1020 (20% on top of 850) to 1050W (previous number on test sheet)
    Aamrr
    #33 - 2011-10-25 23:29:41 UTC
    I do believe you misread my post. The Oneiros currently has a 19.4% CPU advantage over the guardian. If these changes hit TQ, the Guardian would almost entirely lose its powergrid advantage.

    Oneiros: 370 tf
    Guardian: 310 tf

    Oneiros: 1050 MW
    Guardian: 1075 MW

    Guardian: +2 highs
    Oneiros: +2 mids

    Highs are a bit harder to fit on a logistic than a couple cap rechargers...
    Tanya Powers
    Doomheim
    #34 - 2011-10-25 23:34:03 UTC
    Aamrr wrote:
    I do believe you misread my post. The Oneiros currently has a 19.4% CPU advantage over the guardian. If these changes hit TQ, the Guardian would almost entirely lose its powergrid advantage.

    Oneiros: 370 tf
    Guardian: 310 tf

    Oneiros: 1050 MW
    Guardian: 1075 MW

    Guardian: +2 highs
    Oneiros: +2 mids

    Highs are a bit harder to fit on a logistic than a couple cap rechargers...


    I don't know what to tell you but to me seems the Oneiros is finally getting stuff to fit some decent tank and maybe drop cap rechargers for tracking links, maybe become a viable option versus guardians for every situation.
    Goose99
    #35 - 2011-10-26 02:01:09 UTC
    Aamrr wrote:
    I do believe you misread my post. The Oneiros currently has a 19.4% CPU advantage over the guardian. If these changes hit TQ, the Guardian would almost entirely lose its powergrid advantage.

    Oneiros: 370 tf
    Guardian: 310 tf

    Oneiros: 1050 MW
    Guardian: 1075 MW

    Guardian: +2 highs
    Oneiros: +2 mids

    Highs are a bit harder to fit on a logistic than a couple cap rechargers...


    You think 2 cap rechargers give the same cap as 2 cap chains? Onerios need much more than that to get the necessary cap, which means fewer free slots.
    Mfume Apocal
    Brutor Tribe
    Minmatar Republic
    #36 - 2011-10-26 02:40:34 UTC
    Aamrr wrote:
    Does that seem screwed up to anyone else?


    Somewhat, but I'd prefer they balanced the ships relative to each other in use/role than their stats.

    i.e. the Oneiros could be rocking 150% more pg, cpu, base armor, etc. and I wouldn't care as long as the end result left both of them competitive armor logis.
    steave435
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #37 - 2011-10-26 10:11:55 UTC
    Aamrr wrote:
    I do believe you misread my post. The Oneiros currently has a 19.4% CPU advantage over the guardian. If these changes hit TQ, the Guardian would almost entirely lose its powergrid advantage.

    Oneiros: 370 tf
    Guardian: 310 tf

    Oneiros: 1050 MW
    Guardian: 1075 MW

    Guardian: +2 highs
    Oneiros: +2 mids

    Highs are a bit harder to fit on a logistic than a couple cap rechargers...

    That's fair. The Guardian will need to use fitting mods in the rig/low slots to enable the cap chain, the Oneiros will need to use those same slots for RR cap use reduction/extra cap recharge.
    Aamrr
    #38 - 2011-10-26 12:57:55 UTC
    And what about that necessitates a 20% CPU advantage over the Guardian? A ship which will almost certainly consume more CPU than its Oneiros counterpart?

    A powergrid buff is fine, but give-and-take is good too.
    Tanya Powers
    Doomheim
    #39 - 2011-10-26 13:51:05 UTC
    Aamrr wrote:
    And what about that necessitates a 20% CPU advantage over the Guardian? A ship which will almost certainly consume more CPU than its Oneiros counterpart?

    A powergrid buff is fine, but give-and-take is good too.


    Indeed after a few tests and has it stands Oneiros has some advantage in cpu but lets not forget the changes about mid/low slots meaning some (about 2) cap rechargers ae going to be changed in remote tracking links or ECCM and those are very cpu consuming, then the extra low slot can be used for CPR?

    In short, changes 2 meds for fittings (cap recharge) for 1med/1low, keeps 2meds RR and 4 highs.
    Let's see what these changes really mean by testing on SISI and then of course give enough feedback so if the oneiros has more cpu than it can use give it back to guardian.
    For the reccord I never fit the oneiros or guardian with t2 large reps/remote but meta 4 versions, less cpu used.

    Do you really have CPU trouble fitting 4 Large Solace and 2 large Regard? -serious question since I always fit those logistics assuming lvl5 skills (witch every one seems to agree is not an option)
    steave435
    Perkone
    Caldari State
    #40 - 2011-10-26 13:52:02 UTC
    Aamrr wrote:
    And what about that necessitates a 20% CPU advantage over the Guardian? A ship which will almost certainly consume more CPU than its Oneiros counterpart?

    A powergrid buff is fine, but give-and-take is good too.

    The bonus to tracking links means it needs the CPU to fit them if you want to go that route. They'll come at the cost of less RR or lower tank though due to slot limitations.
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