Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Oversizing is fine as long as it represents a conscious and preferably hard choice .. cramming a 400 plate onto frigs for instance costs a lot in terms of fittings/performance .. that is the problem with ASB's and shield mods in general, too damn lax fittings with inconsequential downsides, extenders should blow the sig way out for instance and not by the measly handful of points presently.

Forcing arbitrary restrictions is un-Eveian so should never be considered, the problem would have been non-existent had there been some kind of cap consumption involved as is planned or the AAR. Sure you could fit the M.ASB on your frig no problem, but you'd cap out after two cycles! .

Some numbers about the armor amount an AAR will rep in 8 cycles :
SAAR : 60 * 2,25 * 8 = 1080 hp
MAAR : 240 * 2,25 * 8 = 4320 hp
LAAR : 600 * 2,25 * 8 = 10800 hp

400mm reinforced steel plate II : 1200 hp
800mm reinforced rolled tungsten plate I : 2100 hp
800mm reinforced steel plate II : 2400 hp
1600mm reinforced rolled tungsten plate I : 4200 hp
1600mm reinforced steel plate II : 4800 hp

Coucou armor plates, AAR will just take your place ; thx bye.

Not convinced yet ? MAAR is 3 times easier to fit than a 1600mm plate, and with one or two rigs, it will provide as many hp as this 1600mm plate, but without killing your mobility.

Someone said a shield ship would never armor tank ? I doubt it, or I think at least the possibility arise. With so many mid slot, a shield ship could be like a hookbill, with many EWAR, speed, and still some tank.

and with one or two rigs, it will provide as many hp as this 1600mm plate

thank you ccp for ******* my drones in the ass in pve, and making preparations of serial **** pve, going to be nice to have another incarna expansion, i'm sure all the machriel artillery pilots are going to blow you kisses if you make them hybrids, i think ccp fails to realize an mmo is not an mmo if players can't play any portion of the game solo occasionally, thing is players will leave if the gameplay environment becomes anti-pve/anti-new players, it sets itself to fail, yes even eve can fail if they do this

I'm looking forward to plated fits + a single AAR. The medium provides about as much HP as a 1600mm plate for far less PG further increasing the HP on a BC. The medium AAR + a 800mm plate on a cruiser will also give a decent amount of HP for the PG used, assuming you live long enough to go through all the cycles.

The large provides far more HP than a plate for using a single slot, although its PG requirement is much higher than 1600mm plates. On the megathron there's enough PG for one and some plates, a large cap booster, MWD, and neutron blasters.

If you do last long enough to get through all the loaded paste it can be run without paste giving even more HP to last a little longer. It should be overloaded to get the most out of it while it does have paste loaded, though.

Because NRP is so much smaller in volume than cap charges won't Armor reps have the advantage of being able to carry *significantly* more NRP than the analogous ASBs fits?

yk

http://www.eveonline.com/retribution/battlecruisers-rebalanced/

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CCP Fozzie, which one is correct?

:Largeish reply to some questions and comments posted on Jan 22nd here:

Decided that the title was probably being less than helpful by raising expectations and suggesting that we wouldn't continue iterating after these changes. So I adjusted it.

We've got the resources all properly committed so I'm now ready to share with you all our initial plan to fix some of the biggest problems that face armor tanking in this game. Sorry for the extended period of teasing, hopefully the happy ending will make it all worthwhile.

I was going to go into this big spiel about all the problems with armor tanking in general and active armor tanking in particular, but you all know this so I'll jump straight to the interesting bits.

Here's what we're looking for feedback on:

Armor Rigs

UPDATE: Overheating Rig is pulled while I re-evaluate the method used to apply the bonus.


• Change the penalty on all active armor rigs (Aux Nano Pump, Nanobot Accelerator, and the new Nanobot Overcharger) to increase the powergrid use of local armor reps by 10% instead of reducing ship velocity. Note this is increasing the PG use of the reps by 10% (or 5% at Armor Rigging V) not decreasing the total PG of the ship.

Plates

• Add a new skill to the game called Armor Upgrades. This skill reduces the mass penalty of all armor plates by 5% per level. (Int/Mem, rank 3, requires Mechanics 3) This skill affects all plates (including 1600mm) and is separate from the stat change listed below.
• Reduce the base mass penalty on all 800mm, 200mm and 50mm plates by 20%

Armor Reps:New:

• Reduce the Powergrid requirements of all Medium Armor Repair units by 20%
• Reduce the Powergrid requirements of all Large Armor Repair units by 10%

Ancillary Armor Repairer

• Not the same mechanic as the ASB, please read to the end.
• Always uses the same cap as a normal (T1/T2/Named) Armor Repper
• When not loaded with Nanite Repair Paste, has 3/4 the rep amount as a T1 Armor Repairer
• When loaded with Nanite Repair Paste triples rep amount (so reps 2.25x a T1 repairer when loaded)
• Same cycle time and fittings as T1 reps
• Smalls use 1 paste per cycle, mediums 4, larges 8. Can hold 8 cycles worth of paste at a time. Reload time is 1 minute just like an ASB, but the longer cycle time of armor reps means it goes longer between reloads
• Limited to one per ship

:Edit:
Incursus
With these changes we're looking to reduce the Incursus rep bonus from 10% to 7.5% because otherwise it would be wtfbbqop. Forgot to mention that initially :mybad:

Quick Q&A about the AAR:

Why limited to one per ship?

The longer time between reloads is a big part of the playstyle we wanted to give the AAR, but that with multiple copies would completely negate the burst tanking ideal. In addition, there is more of a tradition of lowslot tanking modules restricted to one per ship so I made the call that in this case the restriction would be worthwhile. The ASB debate is a separate issue unconnected. Please note that nothing is preventing current dual or triple rep fits from swapping one of their reps into an AAR.

Why keep the cap use consistent?

The elimination of cap consumption when loaded is a huge advantage of ASBs, but we decided with the AAR to build the strengths in another direction, focusing on greater stability instead. In addition, one downside of the ASB's zero cap use is the inability of one player to influence the tank of another through neuts. This works ok for the ASB but I am not inclined to expand that mechanic further.

Why not just buff all armor reps?

One of the aspects I really like about the ASB is that it allowed CCP to decouple burst tanking from sustained tanking in a new and interesting way. Burst tanking is key for most PVP active tank scenarios while sustained tanking is more common for PVE. We wanted to carry that aspect over to armor tanking, allowing us to create new burst tanking gameplay without making current sustained tanking gameplay overpowered.

So we are very interested in hearing your feedback on this proposal. Expect at least most of these changes to make it into the next Sisi build for playtesting (the AARs might not catch this upcoming build but they should at least be in the one after that).

It's interesting. These modules are almost like combining more than one module into one slot. ASB sound like Cap Booster + Shield Booster.... sort of. And the AAR is kind of like having 3 armor reppers... 1 that you can run continuaously, and 2 more that you can cycle on as needed for a boost.

Longer cycles, cap requirement, harsher fittings and most will need injector - remember those from before ASB's made active shield tanks laugh at cap?

Personally think the requirement of first cap charges, now paste, is purely so that CCP can dictate how much and for how long by using the reload mechanic .. when it comes to the AAR, paste (price/size) is so distant as to be barely noticeable with regards to balancing.