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Mining Barge SP Reimbursement

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Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-02-10 21:29:25 UTC
As the orca is now having it's mining barge V prereq removed, and many who trained up to use an orca have none of the required skills for mining and have no desire to mine, and simply trained the orca for the purpose of hauling and acting as a mobile command platform, then would it be acceptable for CCP to refund this now useless skill and let players decide if they need mining barge at V or not.

Personally my feeling is that it would be good of CCP to refund this skill, and also any other skill which has been effected in this manner. The orca is a particular example as mining barge is completely useless to a lot of people who trained up for an Orca.

But also I think it would be fair to let pilots affected by the new changes decide if they want to keep the existing skills which are no longer pre reqs and if they want the SP to invest in somthing they will have use for.

The arguments against will be you had some use of the ships, so you must now pay the price. But imagine a character who has just freshly trained for an orca for example, they will have had little use from the orca to justify a month of extra training. Or imagine a player who wishes to train for an orca within the next 6 months. The current choice they face is either train for an orca now and face a month of useless training, or wait 6 months until skill changes have been implemented, if indeed they do get implemented in 6 months.

I propose CCP should give the option as they are doing with BC's and Destroyers, to refund players effected by the changes in skill requirements. I think this would be a fair policy to implement given the fundamental changes which are going on here.

I am sure there will be those who disagree with this also, and if that is the case than I respect that view, and would kindly ask for others to respect opposing views also.
Kate stark
#2 - 2013-02-10 21:31:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Kate stark
trained mining boosting ship.
has no desire to mine.

i see the problem here, you're a bit of an idiot.

just so we're doubly clear, ccp should not refund your sp because you decided to use a ship for something other than it's intended purpose.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Sairi Katelin
State War Academy
Caldari State
#3 - 2013-02-10 21:34:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Sairi Katelin
lol.
no. You chose to learn how to fly mining ships even knowing that you do not like mining. These mining skills are yours now. You worked hard for them and spent a lot of time learning them.
Next time you decide to learn a skill in something you have no desire to do, remember those days.

Also, Destroyer and Battlecruiser pilots are not getting any choice in things.
Montevius Williams
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2013-02-10 21:35:04 UTC
No, it would not be acceptable. Games change. Just because a change happened that someone doesnt like, they should not be reimbursed in anyway.

Just becasue a ship gets nerfed/buffed in EVE, does not mean you should be compensated
Just becasue a Warrior in WoW gets nerfed/buffed does not mean you should be compensated

"The American Government indoctrination system known as public education has been relentlessly churning out socialists for over 20 years". - TravisWB
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#5 - 2013-02-10 21:35:24 UTC
Kate stark wrote:
trained mining boosting ship.
has no desire to mine.

i see the problem here, you're a bit of an idiot.

just so we're doubly clear, ccp should not refund your sp because you decided to use a ship for something other than it's intended purpose.


Don't think a reimbursement is going to happen.

But Orcas have a LOT of uses beyond mining, jackass.
Ryuu Shi
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#6 - 2013-02-10 21:36:16 UTC
TL;DR

CCP nerf bat the supper carriers to only have fighters and fighters bombers now but waaaay back when they could use drones too.Did they get there SP refunded? Nope. Htfu and start pvping those rocks...Big smile

_**Noob **_isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.

  • Sun Tzu
Mag's
Azn Empire
#7 - 2013-02-10 21:37:30 UTC
Oh nice, I didn't see that change.

Now that I don't have to train barges or industry skills, I may train that. Cool

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#8 - 2013-02-10 21:39:06 UTC
Actually, the Orca is well known to be one of the best ships in the game for hauling goods, this is despite the nerf it recieved, it still remains superior to a freighter in many respects. Have a look on Agony and many other eve websites where it's recommended use is as a hauler and not as a mining ship, where it is generally stated that you are better off with another hulk than using the orca to mine.

Also even as a mining command ship pilot, that still means there is a chance that the pilot would have no use for mining barge V. So I think give the players the option to decide if they need the skill. After all many people spend months planning their skill training plans, so any fundamental change such as this should have the implications considered.

Also, calling people idiots is not a good start in the vein of trying to be respectful of others opinions.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-02-10 21:39:40 UTC
What about the countless characters that have been trained as capital alts and have a rank 8 skill trained to 5 that will no longer be needed, and is no longer relevant to the role of flying a capital? I haven't seen many people demanding those ~2 million skillpoints reimbursed.

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Kate stark
#10 - 2013-02-10 21:40:49 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Kate stark wrote:
trained mining boosting ship.
has no desire to mine.

i see the problem here, you're a bit of an idiot.

just so we're doubly clear, ccp should not refund your sp because you decided to use a ship for something other than it's intended purpose.


Don't think a reimbursement is going to happen.

But Orcas have a LOT of uses beyond mining, jackass.


sure they do, but why should ccp refund SP just because you decided to use an orca for a use other than the use for which it was created?

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-02-10 21:41:30 UTC
Changes happen. There's been plenty of changes in the past that have reduced prereq skill requirments & CCP have never refunded skillpoints for those, nor should they. The only time you'll get a skillpoint refund is when they remove a skill entirely.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Kate stark
#12 - 2013-02-10 21:42:58 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Actually, the Orca is well known to be one of the best ships in the game for hauling goods, this is despite the nerf it recieved, it still remains superior to a freighter in many respects. Have a look on Agony and many other eve websites where it's recommended use is as a hauler and not as a mining ship, where it is generally stated that you are better off with another hulk than using the orca to mine.

Also even as a mining command ship pilot, that still means there is a chance that the pilot would have no use for mining barge V. So I think give the players the option to decide if they need the skill. After all many people spend months planning their skill training plans, so any fundamental change such as this should have the implications considered.

Also, calling people idiots is not a good start in the vein of trying to be respectful of others opinions.


then simply accept it as the cost associated with the service your orca provides. y'know, like you did until now.

not sure which is funnier, how self entitled you're being or the tears.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#13 - 2013-02-10 21:43:37 UTC
Andski wrote:
What about the countless characters that have been trained as capital alts and have a rank 8 skill trained to 5 that will no longer be needed, and is no longer relevant to the role of flying a capital? I haven't seen many people demanding those ~2 million skillpoints reimbursed.


In my original post I suggested that any change to a skill which was a prereq, such as BS V for capital ships, then the pilot should be given the choice whether they wish to keep the skill at V, or if they wish to have the SP refunded. The only reason I am focusing on the orca is because mining barge is generally a useless skill to a lot of pilots who have trained or intend to train for an orca.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-02-10 21:45:05 UTC
I trained up lasers a couple years ago when hybrids were completely terrible. Now that blasters are better I don't use the lasers anymore. So really I should get a refund of those Laser SPs.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#15 - 2013-02-10 21:46:12 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:

I propose CCP should give the option as they are doing with BC's and Destroyers, to refund players effected by the changes in skill requirements. I think this would be a fair policy to implement given the fundamental changes which are going on here.



I suggest you go and reread the dev blog.

No option is being given for BC and Destroyers. The /only/ way to get a refund is to have trained Destroyers, without having /any/ frigate skill at 3. Or train BCs, with no cruiser at 3.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#16 - 2013-02-10 21:46:29 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
When Nano-ships were nerfed, pilots who trained to use that tactic were not reimbursed.
When Gallente ships suffered inadvertent nerfs due to changes regarding MWDs/Scrams, Nos, and webs... they were not reimbursed.
When Supercarriers were nerfed, pilots who trained specifically for that ship were not reimbursed.
When Titans lost their AoE Doomsday and were nerfed over and over and over again... Titan pilots were not reimbursed.
When HMLs were slightly nerfed... people were not reimbursed.
The list goes on.

Changes happen. No skill is ever useless. You needed that skill at the time and it served its purpose. No harm done. Move on.

How did you Veterans start?
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-02-10 21:47:45 UTC
Kate stark wrote:
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:
Actually, the Orca is well known to be one of the best ships in the game for hauling goods, this is despite the nerf it recieved, it still remains superior to a freighter in many respects. Have a look on Agony and many other eve websites where it's recommended use is as a hauler and not as a mining ship, where it is generally stated that you are better off with another hulk than using the orca to mine.

Also even as a mining command ship pilot, that still means there is a chance that the pilot would have no use for mining barge V. So I think give the players the option to decide if they need the skill. After all many people spend months planning their skill training plans, so any fundamental change such as this should have the implications considered.

Also, calling people idiots is not a good start in the vein of trying to be respectful of others opinions.


then simply accept it as the cost associated with the service your orca provides. y'know, like you did until now.

not sure which is funnier, how self entitled you're being or the tears.


Ok, now just imagine you are a new player looking at training an orca. You really want it to haul as it is the best ship in a lot of situations for hauling goods. You also think it would be useful as a mobile command platform. You have no intention to mine and hate the idea of mining though. The current choice you would face it to wait 6 or maybe more months for CCP to implement these changes, or alternatively delay your training for 6 months.

I would personally delay training for 6 months enless I really needed the orca for some immediate purpose. Also imagine how pissed those newbs will be who don't read this forum and train for the orca under the current regime.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#18 - 2013-02-10 21:50:20 UTC
ShahFluffers wrote:
When Nano-ships were nerfed, pilots who trained to use that tactic were not reimbursed.
When Gallente ships suffered inadvertent nerfs due to changes regarding MWDs/Scrams, Nos, and webs... they were not reimbursed.
When Supercarriers were nerfed, pilots who trained specifically for that ship were not reimbursed.
When Titans lost their AoE Doomsday and were nerfed over and over and over again... Titan pilots were not reimbursed.
When HMLs were slightly nerfed... people were not reimbursed.
The list goes one.

Changes happen. No skill is ever useless. You needed that skill at the time and it served its purpose. No harm done. Move on.


I agree, if ships or modules are nerfed then I wouldn't ask for a SP refund ever as the game changes, and what is the hottest thing today inevitably will not be in the coming months. The only difference here is CCP is embarking on a fundamental reform of the skill system. The last time I remember them doing that was with the learning skills. Change has to happen, but when tinkering with the skill system which many spend months planning, and spend cold hard cash on activating there accounts to train these skills, then I think an exception could be made.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2013-02-10 21:52:15 UTC
Rebecha Pucontis wrote:


Ok, now just imagine you are a new player looking at training an orca. You really want it to haul as it is the best ship in a lot of situations for hauling goods. You also think it would be useful as a mobile command platform. You have no intention to mine and hate the idea of mining though. The current choice you would face it to wait 6 or maybe more months for CCP to implement these changes, or alternatively delay your training for 6 months.


Yeah. I had to do the same thing. Wait for blasters to get buffed, or train for lasers immediately.


Anyway Mining Barge V is only 15 days or so, less to a dedicated industrialist. Nothing a 6 month old "newbie" should be worrying about.
Rebecha Pucontis
Doomheim
#20 - 2013-02-10 21:52:42 UTC
Takseen wrote:
I trained up lasers a couple years ago when hybrids were completely terrible. Now that blasters are better I don't use the lasers anymore. So really I should get a refund of those Laser SPs.


But if you trained up lasers as they were a pre req for blasters, and then CCP removed that pre req, then I guess you now have a useless laser skill enless you fly amarr.

Again if it is simply a module buff or nerf then I would agree, no SP should be refunded.
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