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Dev blog: The great ship skill change of summer 2013

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Ser'kele
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#681 - 2013-02-10 15:03:23 UTC
Thanks a bunch. That is cool. So i'll focus on getting Leadership V, Warfare Link Specialist IV, inject command ships skillbook (atleast train to I for safe measure) then i'm golden.

And since they removed the Cruiser V racial requirements for each command ship and replaced it with a Racial BCV skill i'll be pretty much set to fly every command ship because I just finished BCV, racial frig IV, racial cruiser IV.. right?





Savira Terrant wrote:
Ser'kele wrote:
Quick question (not complaining) - sorry edited once more without using neural remaps

Right now I am 22 days away from flying Astarte (according to evemon) (17 using a remap)

After the change I will be 42 days away (using my bonus remap) (59 without using my remap) with the requirement of:

Skirmish Warfare V
Information Warfare V
Armored Warfare V
Siege Warfare V
Warfare Link Specialist IV
Leadership V


These are the remaining skills I lack from flying Astarte:

Leadership V
Warefare Link Specialist IV
Command Ships I
Assault Ships IV
Heavy Assault Ships IV


Do I have time to finish off the remaining skills to get to Astarte? or should I just use my remap now for the booster skills and start training those up?


No, finish the 17 days (and inject the command ships skill) before changes hit and you are golden.

Explanation: In the future prereqs are only checked for injecting skillbooks. So if you inject the command ships skill before the changes you "skip" around the requirements of those leadership skills.

On the other hand if you feel you do not want the Assault Frigate and Heavy Assault Cruiser skills AND want to train the fleetboost skills anyway AND don't feel pressured to fly the Astarte in the near future (yet unknown changes to command ships are looming anyway), you can start training the boosting skills already and just wait for patchday in summer (no specific date yet as far as I know) to inject command ships skill.

At the moment we are in the lucky position to have freedom to choose what skills we want. Nice, right? Big smile
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#682 - 2013-02-10 15:12:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Savira Terrant
Ser'kele wrote:
Thanks a bunch. That is cool. So i'll focus on getting Leadership V, Warfare Link Specialist IV, inject command ships skillbook (atleast train to I for safe measure) then i'm golden.

And since they removed the Cruiser V racial requirements for each command ship and replaced it with a Racial BCV skill i'll be pretty much set to fly every command ship because I just finished BCV, racial frig IV, racial cruiser IV.. right?



That is correct if you meant that you finished ALL racial cruisers to 3. Blink

.
Ser'kele
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#683 - 2013-02-10 15:23:04 UTC
Savira Terrant wrote:
Ser'kele wrote:
Thanks a bunch. That is cool. So i'll focus on getting Leadership V, Warfare Link Specialist IV, inject command ships skillbook (atleast train to I for safe measure) then i'm golden.

And since they removed the Cruiser V racial requirements for each command ship and replaced it with a Racial BCV skill i'll be pretty much set to fly every command ship because I just finished BCV, racial frig IV, racial cruiser IV.. right?



That is correct if you meant that you finished ALL racial cruisers to 3. Blink


Right. That's what i mean. :)
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#684 - 2013-02-10 17:02:41 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Bubbleboylol wrote:
Dan' Ehr wrote:
You do this without coughing up the skill point difference, I will pod you; you do this and take away ship commands we already possess, I will pod you twice. I demand you cover and compensate older players who have given so much, without who's support these past years you would have no game to change to suit newer players. I agree that these changes provide a streamlined cleanliness, but don't make all the time and effort your benefactors have put into this game for so long amount to waste.





That always seems to be the case..... they always forget who and what gave them so much.. they always **** on the people, I love this game but it's slowly getting "streamlined" till it is so streamlined that there is no bumps left to overcome......


Uh, I think you guys are missing something.....
Like....

The fact you can still train any skill you already have.
And the fact you can fly any ship you have the skill for.

The 'pre-requisits' are only needed to inject the skill.
So there is no 'Taking away' of anything. Only gaining.


You're talking to bittervets that think injecting logic into the current system is the same thing as casualizing. There's no reasoning with some people.
Zana Rotineque
No Damn Clan
#685 - 2013-02-10 17:27:03 UTC
i was looking at the ship skill changes and noticed the Providence changes advanced spaceship command lvl1 and will require lvl 5 now, so i have only lvl 2 so does that mean after the changes i wont beable to fly my Feniri unless i train to lvl 5?
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#686 - 2013-02-10 17:38:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Savira Terrant
Zana Rotineque wrote:
i was looking at the ship skill changes and noticed the Providence changes advanced spaceship command lvl1 and will require lvl 5 now, so i have only lvl 2 so does that mean after the changes i wont beable to fly my Feniri unless i train to lvl 5?


No. You will still be able to fly your already trained Fenrir as per normal. In the Devblog it is explained that you will be able to fly after the patch, what you could fly before. And they will also change it so you will be able to advance the Fenrir skill without meeting the requirements for it, as long as you had it injected before the patch.

And they flew their Fenrirs happily until they were podkilled.

.
Zintex
Dead Council's Revenge
Askaantiuul Logistics
#687 - 2013-02-10 18:21:31 UTC
as i have looked mostly on the Rorqual ship skills i see that there is some new skill added to there required skill list
and i'm talking about the : ORE Industrial 3 , Mass Production 5 , Advanced Mass Production 4 , and Industrial Reconfiguration 1

and the Orca will be needing the : ORE Industrial 3

as i can fly the Rorqual now i assume i will get the now required skill aswell and not just the new destroyer and battlecruiser skills :)

hope someone can give me some info in this matter as it will be nice to know :)
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#688 - 2013-02-10 18:28:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Savira Terrant
Zintex wrote:
as i have looked mostly on the Rorqual ship skills i see that there is some new skill added to there required skill list
and i'm talking about the : ORE Industrial 3 , Mass Production 5 , Advanced Mass Production 4 , and Industrial Reconfiguration 1

and the Orca will be needing the : ORE Industrial 3

as i can fly the Rorqual now i assume i will get the now required skill aswell and not just the new destroyer and battlecruiser skills :)

hope someone can give me some info in this matter as it will be nice to know :)



No, you won't get those skills. Instead, you will be flying a Rorqual without the new requirements and be happy with just that.


Edit: I am starting to course you Ytterbium my friend, for putting flashy pictures into the Devblog. No one seems to read the important text of that blog because of those. P

.
ako ako
I.C.E Initiative
#689 - 2013-02-10 18:55:31 UTC
I salute the Dev's and players who keep on answering the same question over, and over, and over........
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#690 - 2013-02-10 19:07:40 UTC
if only you made it clear in the blog people would not have to come here and ask over and over. My 2 cents...
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#691 - 2013-02-10 19:08:00 UTC
ako ako wrote:
I salute the Dev's and players who keep on answering the same question over, and over, and over........



The devs could have just locked this thread, deleted it, and made a new sticky answering the question, and kept that sticky locked down as well so the giant message answering that question is the first and only thing anyone sees.
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#692 - 2013-02-10 19:11:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Savira Terrant
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
ako ako wrote:
I salute the Dev's and players who keep on answering the same question over, and over, and over........



The devs could have just locked this thread, deleted it, and made a new sticky answering the question, and kept that sticky locked down as well so the giant message answering that question is the first and only thing anyone sees.



But that would defeat the purpose of this thread, would it not?

.
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#693 - 2013-02-10 19:12:34 UTC
Savira Terrant wrote:
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
ako ako wrote:
I salute the Dev's and players who keep on answering the same question over, and over, and over........



The devs could have just locked this thread, deleted it, and made a new sticky answering the question, and kept that sticky locked down as well so the giant message answering that question is the first and only thing anyone sees.



But that would defeat the purpose of this thread, would it not?


It seems this thread is being used for QA of the same Q. In which case the thread's purpose isn't being fulfilled.
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#694 - 2013-02-10 19:21:11 UTC
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
It seems this thread is being used for QA of the same Q. In which case the thread's purpose isn't being fulfilled.


Well, beside this thread being used to becalm our precious co-players *ahem*, we are also asked to give feedback - favorably in a calm and constructive manner.

.
Felicia Xavian
State War Academy
Caldari State
#695 - 2013-02-10 19:54:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Felicia Xavian
Perhaps I only want one Battle cruiser skill (edit) or maybe none at all - and I qualify for getting all four race BC's.
I have a certain amount of skill points that I want to stay under and maybe the other race BC's will be nothing to me but a clone upgrade burden that I wish not to bare for the duration of my eve career.

This is not the first time that my training has led to be subverted by game-play changes which not only costs me game time to train in vain. My PvP toon only trained BC and Command ship to give bonuses to mining alts that funded him or her ... which was the only way they could before the Orca arrived which by the way arrived just before him or here got the mining leadership skills that were needed to give the bonuses. Which... completely wasted ALOT of my toons TIME (=money) and a continued burden of a substantial higher clone cost.

Now you are telling me that in addition to this waste, I will now be burdened for this SOLO PvP toon 3 additional lvl 5 BC skill points.

It would be nice, CCP if you could find it in your heart to AT LEAST have an option to delete unwanted skills ( a mind wipe) especially when you screw with the entire planning of a toon in such a long-term game as EvE.

It is do-able, and fair. Your changes cant simply be compensated by here ya go refund of some skill points and suck it up on planning your character.
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#696 - 2013-02-10 20:16:52 UTC
Felicia Xavian wrote:
Perhaps I only want one Battle cruiser skill (edit) or maybe none at all - and I qualify for getting all four race BC's.
I have a certain amount of skill points that I want to stay under and maybe the other race BC's will be nothing to me but a clone upgrade burden that I wish not to bare for the duration of my eve career.

This is not the first time that my training has led to be subverted by game-play changes which not only costs me game time to train in vain. My PvP toon only trained BC and Command ship to give bonuses to mining alts that funded him or her ... which was the only way they could before the Orca arrived which by the way arrived just before him or here got the mining leadership skills that were needed to give the bonuses. Which... completely wasted ALOT of my toons TIME (=money) and a continued burden of a substantial higher clone cost.

Now you are telling me that in addition to this waste, I will now be burdened for this SOLO PvP toon 3 additional lvl 5 BC skill points.

It would be nice, CCP if you could find it in your heart to AT LEAST have an option to delete unwanted skills ( a mind wipe) especially when you screw with the entire planning of a toon in such a long-term game as EvE.

It is do-able, and fair. Your changes cant simply be compensated by here ya go refund of some skill points and suck it up on planning your character.


I don't even get what you want. First you say too many skillpoints are a burden, and next thing you want a skillpoint refund? That sounds contradicting to me...

.
Inkarr Hashur
Skyline Federation
#697 - 2013-02-10 20:22:30 UTC
Felicia Xavian wrote:
Perhaps I only want one Battle cruiser skill (edit) or maybe none at all - and I qualify for getting all four race BC's.
I have a certain amount of skill points that I want to stay under and maybe the other race BC's will be nothing to me but a clone upgrade burden that I wish not to bare for the duration of my eve career.

This is not the first time that my training has led to be subverted by game-play changes which not only costs me game time to train in vain. My PvP toon only trained BC and Command ship to give bonuses to mining alts that funded him or her ... which was the only way they could before the Orca arrived which by the way arrived just before him or here got the mining leadership skills that were needed to give the bonuses. Which... completely wasted ALOT of my toons TIME (=money) and a continued burden of a substantial higher clone cost.

Now you are telling me that in addition to this waste, I will now be burdened for this SOLO PvP toon 3 additional lvl 5 BC skill points.

It would be nice, CCP if you could find it in your heart to AT LEAST have an option to delete unwanted skills ( a mind wipe) especially when you screw with the entire planning of a toon in such a long-term game as EvE.

It is do-able, and fair. Your changes cant simply be compensated by here ya go refund of some skill points and suck it up on planning your character.


I think I get your issue, and I sympathize, but CCP doesn't seem to want to be doing this on a case-by-case basis. So the simplest and most logical way to handle the SP issue is what they're currently doing. If you're unhappy with it because of clone costs, then that's just on you. An option to simply delete skills you don't want to lower clone costs would be excellent though.

The "wasted SP" argument doesn't hold water though. A year or two ago you certainly seemed to think the Command Ship was worth training even if you needed a lot of "wasted time" to get there. You thought it was ok at the time, and it doesn't suddenly stop being ok just because they removed it later.
Felicia Xavian
State War Academy
Caldari State
#698 - 2013-02-10 20:24:00 UTC
Quote:
I don't even get what you want. First you say too many skillpoints are a burden, and next thing you want a skillpoint refund? That sounds contradicting to me...


A refund would be nice but I would at least enjoy removal of skills trained for a purpose that was moved to a different ship... read more slowly...
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#699 - 2013-02-10 20:40:35 UTC
Felicia Xavian wrote:
A refund would be nice but I would at least enjoy removal of skills trained for a purpose that was moved to a different ship... read more slowly...


Ah, so you are asking for removal of skillpoints without recompensation (at least). Well, quite the unorthodox request in my believe. Interesting to say the least. Mh, one could polish one's character sheet and get rid of the mining skills - what the hell was I thinking back then?!

If it's only for the clone costs, I think you are better off lobbying for another issue brought to my attention by CCP Fozzie with this post.

.
Felicia Xavian
State War Academy
Caldari State
#700 - 2013-02-10 20:42:39 UTC
Inkarr Hashur wrote:
The "wasted SP" argument doesn't hold water though. A year or two ago you certainly seemed to think the Command Ship was worth training even if you needed a lot of "wasted time" to get there. You thought it was ok at the time, and it doesn't suddenly stop being ok just because they removed it later. .


The training and planning for my solo PvP had nothing to do with command ships. i had miners to fund them... but wait, i can have my PvP account help my miners by givving bonuses with BC's and command ships... seemed right so I started my journey of training for it since he or she was closest to BC and command it seemed a wast to train a new toon for the task... so BC 1-2-3 and now for the mining bonuses mining foreman V leadership V then mining director... and so I end up with a solo PvP toon that has all that and also the module fell under the Skirmish Warefare catagory at the time.. which was 4 more lvles that wern't needed... tada... orca appeard, modules changed and I gotta swallow it whole like i like it... perhaps it is a perspective.... try to see it from here.