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Space Marines are bad, mkay?

Author
Kate stark
#21 - 2013-02-10 11:07:38 UTC
on the one hand i hate hearing "space marine" then digging deeper and finding out that the "space marines" aren't actually anything like the 40k space marines, because that's what i expect to find when i hear that term.

on the other hand, free advertising.

*shrug* i think it's all a bit of a nothing but i guess if i were GW i'd have done the same.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.

Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#22 - 2013-02-10 12:55:08 UTC
TL;DR

Putting "mkay" in the thread, well please don't do that.
Aracimia Wolfe
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2013-02-10 14:00:41 UTC
We're fine guys they'll have to get past the colonial marines first. Those guys are hardcore.

Kill it with Fire!

stoicfaux
#24 - 2013-02-10 14:35:24 UTC  |  Edited by: stoicfaux
If you trust wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space_marine

Quote:
The earliest known use of the term "space marine" was by Bob Olsen in his short story "Captain Brink of the Space Marines" (Amazing Stories, Volume 7, Number 8, November 1932), a light-hearted work whose title is a play on the song "Captain Jinks of the Horse Marines", and in which the protagonists were marines of the "Earth Republic Space Navy" on mission to rescue celebrity twins from aliens on Titan. Olsen published a novella sequel four years later, "The Space Marines and the Slavers" (Amazing Stories, Volume 10, Number 13, December 1936), featuring the same characters using a spaceship with active camouflage to free hostages from Martian space pirates on Ganymede.[2]

A more widely known early example was E. E. Smith's Lensman series. While the first story, Triplanetary and most later sequels (Second Stage Lensmen, Children of the Lens and The Vortex Blaster) do not mention them, passing mentions of marines are made in Galactic Patrol[a] (Astounding Stories, September 1937–February 1938) and Gray Lensman[b][c] (Astounding Stories, October 1939–January 1940), and a more direct mention is made in First Lensman (1950): "Dronvire of Rigel Four in the lead, closely followed by Costigan, Northrop, Kinnison the Younger, and a platoon of armed and armored Space Marines!".
The phrase "space marines" appears in Robert A. Heinlein's "Misfit"[d] (1939) and is again used in "The Long Watch"[e] (1941) which is referenced in his later novel Space Cadet (1948), in all cases before Smith had used the phrase. Heinlein's Starship Troopers (1959) is considered the defining work for the concept, although it does not use the term "space marine". The actors playing the Colonial Marines in Aliens (1986) were required to read Starship Troopers as part of their training prior to filming.[3] Heinlein intended for the capsule troopers of the Mobile Infantry to be an amalgam of the shipborne aspect of the US Marine Corps relocated to space and coupled with the battlefield delivery and mission profile of US Army paratroopers.


Space Marines from Warhammer 40,000.
As a gaming concept, space marines play a major role in the Warhammer 40,000 miniatures wargame, in which they are genetically altered super-soldiers and the most powerful fighting forces available to the Imperium of Man. In computer games, playing a space marine in action games was popularized by id Software's Doom series, first published in 1993. It is a convenient game back-story as it excuses the presence of the character on a hostile alien world with little support and heavy weaponry. Some critics have suggested it has been overused to the point of being an action game cliché.[4]




edit: added moar

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

stoicfaux
#25 - 2013-02-10 14:39:13 UTC
Vaerah Vahrokha wrote:
Game Workshop are the same who chose Mythic Entertrainment to completely ruin a possibly awesome MMO.

They are also the same who deliver some of the most asinine IP bulks of papers.

Karma will really give them back one day.

I think Karma will be in the form of 3D printers. The miniatures industry isn't something I would make long term investments in. (However, I would invest in copyright law firms.)

Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#26 - 2013-02-10 15:03:54 UTC
Already been done GW decided that it owned the rights to them.
Even when they look nothing alike.
Also an easy way to fix this is to make spurious and false claims carry a nice fine.
And dismiss the whole, but we didnt know factor.
Currently they could blanket issue takedowns and people would comply and unless challenged its assumed you are guilty.
Which kind of violates common law something fierce.
Besides it would be a great way to make governments solvent again.

Oh and because it cant be repeated trademark != copyright
Very important and carry very different rules.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#27 - 2013-02-10 15:30:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Felicity Love
Good luck to them with that. They didn't have much luck before.

Mind you, if they ever bothered to put half as much effort into any of their "armies" other than a Space Marine army -- then their company would be three times as successful.

Sure, it could be argued that the SM's are their most successful product, and therefore they focused their efforts on SM's for obvious reasons -- but after awhile that just becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy with every 2nd "release" being a "Space Marine" release of some kind.

So no wonder they are litigation happy -- too many eggs in one basket -- and they've done it to themselves.

KARMA... as someone else has already said.

Roll

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )

Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2013-02-10 15:39:11 UTC
Oh god they'll sue all the space merpeople !!! O_O
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
#29 - 2013-02-18 18:39:58 UTC
Silk daShocka wrote:
Next will be the U.S. Marines Corps pursuing games workshops for using the term "Marine" I would imagine.


US Marine Corps is part of the newbies in the field... a quick scan over the wikipage showed me that USMC was created in 1775, while the UK Royal Marines (1664) and the Dutch "Koninklijke Marine" (1665) are more than a century older.

Top of the list that I have found so far:
The Spanish Navy Marines (Infantería de Marina) are the oldest existing marine force in the world, as they were established on February 27, 1537, by Charles I when he permanently assigned the Compañías Viejas del Mar de Nápoles (Naples Sea Old Companies) to the Escuadras de Galeras del Mediterráneo (Mediterranean Galley Squadrons).
Nuela
WoT Misfits
#30 - 2013-02-18 18:42:38 UTC
Sentient Blade wrote:
So as anyone who follows the industry will know, intellectual property battles are getting so ridiculous that we can expect the entire software sector to come to a grinding halt at some point in the next 5 years.

However, this one really made me facepalm. BBC is reporting that Games Workshop is actively pursuing companies who have products about "Space Marines".

That's right... Space Marines. Marines, in space.

Like Dust 514.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-21380003

Cotic wrote:
The article at escapist magazine covers it in quite good detail.



You young whippersnappers may not know but after Star Wars came out, Lucas thought he pretty muched owned 'Space'. Any movie in Space had to contend with Lucas's Lawyers. Battlestar Galactica had loads of issues with them.
Shan'Talasha Mea'Questa
The Perfect Harvesting Experience
#31 - 2013-02-18 18:45:05 UTC
Nuela wrote:
You young whippersnappers may not know but after Star Wars came out, Lucas thought he pretty muched owned 'Space'. Any movie in Space had to contend with Lucas's Lawyers. Battlestar Galactica had loads of issues with them.


Did he also sue Ronald Reagan for naming his private money sink after his beloved movie?
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#32 - 2013-02-18 18:51:13 UTC
Marines in space is a popular theme in Science Fiction, tbh GW haven't got a leg to stand on

To add to the literary references above there's also the Honorverse series of books, all of which feature Marines as ground assault and ship boarding troops attached to Naval units in space. The author even refers to them as a throw back to historical Earth based naval terms and tactics (he calls it wet navy) and keeps their command structure as it exists today.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Joran Dravius
Doomheim
#33 - 2013-02-18 19:16:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Joran Dravius
Benny Ohu wrote:
I don't think this has anything to do with DUST, though. The contension is over the term 'space marine', not the idea of superdudes in armour. A lot of trademark claims appear riduculous on the face but defending them is a necessity to maintain a a certain image your competitors don't

Yes, the image of being a greedy bully who abuses the trademark system for financial gain.

Nuela wrote:

You young whippersnappers may not know but after Star Wars came out, Lucas thought he pretty muched owned 'Space'. Any movie in Space had to contend with Lucas's Lawyers. Battlestar Galactica had loads of issues with them.

To be fair, it's hard not to notice how much the BSG ships look like x-wings.

Benny Ohu wrote:
and i don't think they're going after the concept of space marines (marines in space), that's undefendable, just the phrasing

That's the same thing. You can't have something in a book if you're not allowed to mention it.
Davith en Divalone
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-02-18 19:32:50 UTC
At least according to the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, descriptive trademarks that use common, everyday words associated with an object are weak and often unenforceable. You probably can't enforce a trademark on a soft drink named "soda" or a yogurt named "creamy."
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#35 - 2013-02-18 19:34:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
Davith en Divalone wrote:
At least according to the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, descriptive trademarks that use common, everyday words associated with an object are weak and often unenforceable. You probably can't enforce a trademark on a soft drink named "soda" or a yogurt named "creamy."


[sarcasm]Unless you're Apple, then you can trademark anything that contains the words "Pod" or "Phone" even if there is good evidence of prior use. Money talks, so does bullshit.[/sarcasm]

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

New Player FAQ

Feyd's Survival Pack

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#36 - 2013-02-18 19:52:12 UTC
Trademarks are either defended, or they're lost. If everyone uses them, without license, they become 'generic terms'. Hoover have a problem here. As do Xerox. And Bandaids.

And there's no real concept of prior art with them.

They are, however, specific.

Trademark space marine, and you don't get 'star marine','colonial marine' or anything along those lines.


(I'm not saying GW are right here. But if they think they have a relevant mark, they pretty much /need/ to act)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Darvaleth Sigma
Imperial Security Hegemony
#37 - 2013-02-18 20:59:23 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Games Workshop can take, and its IP rights, and shove them so far up their collective asses that they taste the ink.

[Big load of anger, sorely lacking in the grammar department].


I'm sorry, but just because you were bad at the game doesn't mean it was purposefully biased against you. Any army can be led to success if the general is good; if they're awful, then their record will reflect that. Please don't spout eye-offending butthurt just because you sucked.

Mars Theran wrote:


Space - Cannot trademarked

Marine - Cannot be trademarked

Space Marine cannot be trademarked.


Really? What about "Death Star"?

Death - Cannot be trademarked

Star - Cannot be trademarked

Death Star - "HERPDERP everyone steal Lucas' idea, 'cause you can't trademark the word "death" or "star"!"

Give a man a match and you warm him for a day.

Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life!

Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2013-02-19 03:54:01 UTC
Darvaleth Sigma wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Games Workshop can take, and its IP rights, and shove them so far up their collective asses that they taste the ink.

[Big load of anger, sorely lacking in the grammar department].


I'm sorry, but just because you were bad at the game doesn't mean it was purposefully biased against you. Any army can be led to success if the general is good; if they're awful, then their record will reflect that. Please don't spout eye-offending butthurt just because you sucked.

Mars Theran wrote:


Space - Cannot trademarked

Marine - Cannot be trademarked

Space Marine cannot be trademarked.


Really? What about "Death Star"?

Death - Cannot be trademarked

Star - Cannot be trademarked

Death Star - "HERPDERP everyone steal Lucas' idea, 'cause you can't trademark the word "death" or "star"!"

ive actually won tournaments, only ones ive lost are when i end up against a space marine player in the finals/semifinals, cause anyoen smart enough to havea half-decent space marine setup already ahs their opponent gimped for not having tehir own half-decent space marine army.
dark heartt
#39 - 2013-02-19 04:09:31 UTC
So now the author can enjoy all the free advertising for her book that GW just provided. Clearly GW was trying to do her a favour haha.
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#40 - 2013-02-19 04:15:21 UTC
Well it's a good thing that EvE doesn't use any terms like "warp drive" and "cloaking device" or Star Trek would sue.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0

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