These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE Information Portal

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Dev blog: The great ship skill change of summer 2013

First post First post
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#641 - 2013-02-09 19:50:22 UTC
Ubat Batuk wrote:
Savira Terrant wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2589404#post2589404 is where I answeared to your concerns. Please this carefully.


thank you for that, however this means that you get one racial BC skills at level 5. What about the rest? I can fly all BCs at level 5 now.


// It is noteworthy to point out that if you don’t have a racial Cruiser at 3, then you won’t receive the corresponding racial Battlecruiser skill. It is thus worthwhile to train all Racial Cruiser skill at 3, then focus on maximizing Battlecruisers before the reimbursement happens. //

This part is especially for you: It tells you to train all racial cruiser to 3 in order to get all battlecruiser skills.

If you honestly don't understand that from the devblog, all that's left for me is to ask you to voice concerns in a more productive (and nice) behavior next time around. You will get less annoyed answears then.

.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#642 - 2013-02-09 20:01:37 UTC
Ubat Batuk wrote:
You know what, I thought this should make you really happy, I have added another 300M.

Lol

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#643 - 2013-02-09 20:07:17 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Ubat Batuk wrote:
You know what, I thought this should make you really happy, I have added another 300M.

Lol


Now bounty: 338,322,891 ISK.
Yes, I just received a message from Concord that someone has claimed 11M...
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#644 - 2013-02-09 20:08:25 UTC
Ubat Batuk wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Ubat Batuk wrote:
You know what, I thought this should make you really happy, I have added another 300M.

Lol


Now bounty: 338,322,891 ISK.
Yes, I just received a message from Concord that someone has claimed 11M...


I will be monitoring the progress.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#645 - 2013-02-09 20:24:47 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Ubat Batuk wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Ubat Batuk wrote:
You know what, I thought this should make you really happy, I have added another 300M.

Lol


Now bounty: 338,322,891 ISK.
Yes, I just received a message from Concord that someone has claimed 11M...

I can assure you that had nothing to do with my bounty.
Honestly you just seemed like the type to get angry over even a small bounty amount. Judging by you dumping 350 million isk on mine it would seem I succeeded. :P

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#646 - 2013-02-09 20:26:09 UTC
Savira Terrant wrote:
Ubat Batuk wrote:
Savira Terrant wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2589404#post2589404 is where I answeared to your concerns. Please this carefully.


thank you for that, however this means that you get one racial BC skills at level 5. What about the rest? I can fly all BCs at level 5 now.


// It is noteworthy to point out that if you don’t have a racial Cruiser at 3, then you won’t receive the corresponding racial Battlecruiser skill. It is thus worthwhile to train all Racial Cruiser skill at 3, then focus on maximizing Battlecruisers before the reimbursement happens. //

This part is especially for you: It tells you to train all racial cruiser to 3 in order to get all battlecruiser skills.

If you honestly don't understand that from the devblog, all that's left for me is to ask you to voice concerns in a more productive (and nice) behavior next time around. You will get less annoyed answears then.


OK, many thanks for this. I really appreciate your time and effort to help. I hope you are right and for now I am going to stick to your explanation. Are you saying that my posts are disrespectful?
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#647 - 2013-02-09 20:39:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Savira Terrant
Ubat Batuk wrote:
OK, many thanks for this. I really appreciate your time and effort to help. I hope you are right and for now I am going to stick to your explanation. Are you saying that my posts are disrespectful?


Well, I do not want to judge on that. All I can say is, that the notions you made towards CCP tripped me off personaly, especially since they were based on a false understanding on your part.

I mean I like how passionate players are towards their games - which holds true for EVE more than any other MMO I have seen so far - but resorting to insults towards a company producing my beloved game, gets me to the edge.

.
DancesWithVeldspar
#648 - 2013-02-09 20:45:12 UTC
Ubat Batuk wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
It was quite clear to me and several other people.

Just because you had trouble understanding it doesn't mean it wasn't well written.


That is interesting. Let's see how many people get it. My point stands.

I got it first time. CCP knew your question would be the biggest concern and were prepared as far back as March 2012 with the answer. This hasn't changed in any of the updates since.

Ubat Batuk wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

If you had actually bothered reading the dev blog or any of the pages of this thread you would have realized just how stupid you sound.


I don't sound stupid.

Oh yes you do!
DancesWithVeldspar
#649 - 2013-02-09 20:45:30 UTC
Ubat Batuk wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Don't forget to fit the Damage Control II, it seems like you need it now more than ever.


I use all low slots for DPS, maybe you are the one who needs it.

You need to start adding a few Co-processors.
Mioelnir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#650 - 2013-02-09 20:53:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Mioelnir
Let me tell you a story about a boy that wanted to become a titan pilot:

Initial Skillplan (broad outline)

  1. Naglfar (to get some use out of the character while it trains)
  2. Ragnarok


Initially planned amount of SP that have nothing to do with what he wanted to do with those 2 ships:

  1. 0 SP


Initial plan, adjusted for reality:

  1. 90,510 SP: Electronic Warfare IV; requirement for Electronic Warfare Drone Interfacing (+Drone Control Range)
  2. 1,415 SP: Mining II; although the skillbook is sold on the market, every character has it and you can not petition to have it removed, I tried
  3. 768,000 SP: Astrometrics 5; requirement for Jump Portal Generation

Total: 859,925; not too bad really. Hardly any deadweight

Additional deadweight skillpoints from the last sets of ship changes:

  1. 2,878,120 SP: everything he has in Drones, since none of the two ships the character has specialized for can use them anymore

New total: 3,738,045

Additional deadweight skillpoints from the announced ship changes:

  1. Minmatar Battleship IV+V: 1,984,000 SP
  2. Minmatar Cruiser IV: 186,275 SP
  3. Minmatar Frigate IV: 74,510 SP

New total: 5,982,830

Skillpoints the character has to spend if he wants to be "officially" able to fly the two ships again (cosmetic "skills-check all green" and to avoid "how can you sit in that ship, your skillsheet says you do not have all required skills" discussions):

  1. Minmatar Destroyer I-III: 16,000
  2. Minmatar Battlecruiser I-III: 48,000

New total: 6,046,830

At currently around 68.8m SP, that's 8.78% of the skillpoint total (will be a bit less at the time the change actually hits). That makes me sad.

That said, I like the changes in general, they need to happen, I just wish the migration path was less bumpy. But I can understand that it is just not feasible to have a lenghty discussion with every player why a specific skill was trained for every character and if it is no longer necessary and/or should be reimbursed.


One change that stood out for me though was the addition of the Industrial Core I module as requirement for the Rorqual. Please have your statistics department check how many characters can currently fly Rorqual, but do not have that skill. It is quite frequently used simply as a big hauler of things that has fittings.

Adding the Core module adds a lot of production skills as requirements. And while adding this "Industrial Siege" module may seem analogue to adding the actual siege module as a requirement for dreadnoughts, this is a false friend. After all, the triage skill was not added as a requirement for carriers.

This is, by the way, still the only module that has a tech 2 ship skill as requirement (Logistics 5).
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#651 - 2013-02-09 21:31:07 UTC
DancesWithVeldspar wrote:
Ubat Batuk wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Don't forget to fit the Damage Control II, it seems like you need it now more than ever.


I use all low slots for DPS, maybe you are the one who needs it.

You need to start adding a few Co-processors.


I give a +1 because it made me smile.
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#652 - 2013-02-09 21:40:47 UTC
Savira Terrant wrote:
Ubat Batuk wrote:
OK, many thanks for this. I really appreciate your time and effort to help. I hope you are right and for now I am going to stick to your explanation. Are you saying that my posts are disrespectful?


Well, I do not want to judge on that. All I can say is, that the notions you made towards CCP tripped me off personaly, especially since they were based on a false understanding on your part.

I mean I like how passionate players are towards their games - which holds true for EVE more than any other MMO I have seen so far - but resorting to insults towards a company producing my beloved game, gets me to the edge.


I am really glad that this will be addressed in the proper way so that is a big +1 for CCP. Well done to all.
Firia O'Flame
Gunpoint Mercantile Associates
#653 - 2013-02-09 22:33:47 UTC
CCP Gargant wrote:
Destroyers and Battlecruisers, please fill your reimbursement form

The trick is to remember that the Prophecy bonuses are based on the Battlecruiser skill. Thus, if you want to maximize the reimbursement, training Amarr Cruiser past 3 will do you little good. Aim for Battlecruisers 5 instead, as you will then get Amarr Battlecruiser 5.


I just want to be clear; I know you were using amarr as an example. Will I also get Gallente BC5, Minmatar BC5, and caldari BC5 for having my current skill at BC5?
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#654 - 2013-02-09 22:53:19 UTC
Firia O'Flame wrote:
CCP Gargant wrote:
Destroyers and Battlecruisers, please fill your reimbursement form

The trick is to remember that the Prophecy bonuses are based on the Battlecruiser skill. Thus, if you want to maximize the reimbursement, training Amarr Cruiser past 3 will do you little good. Aim for Battlecruisers 5 instead, as you will then get Amarr Battlecruiser 5.


I just want to be clear; I know you were using amarr as an example. Will I also get Gallente BC5, Minmatar BC5, and caldari BC5 for having my current skill at BC5?

If you have the required racial Cruisers at III.
The quick way to check is attempt to get into Gallente, Minmatar & Caldari BC's right now.
If you can get in them, and you have BC V, you will get the racial BC V.
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#655 - 2013-02-09 22:53:48 UTC
Firia O'Flame wrote:
CCP Gargant wrote:
Destroyers and Battlecruisers, please fill your reimbursement form

The trick is to remember that the Prophecy bonuses are based on the Battlecruiser skill. Thus, if you want to maximize the reimbursement, training Amarr Cruiser past 3 will do you little good. Aim for Battlecruisers 5 instead, as you will then get Amarr Battlecruiser 5.


I just want to be clear; I know you were using amarr as an example. Will I also get Gallente BC5, Minmatar BC5, and caldari BC5 for having my current skill at BC5?



You could have just read this site of the comments at least.


As clarified many many times in this thread, you get the racial BC skills at your current BC level, if you have the corresponding cruiser skill to 3.

That means if you have Amarr cruiser 3, Caldari cruiser 3, Gallente cruiser 3 and Minmatar cruiser 3, in your case you will get ALL four racial BC skills at level 5.

.
Xe'Cara'eos
A Big Enough Lever
#656 - 2013-02-10 01:03:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Xe'Cara'eos
Just a suggestion - but I would like to see CCP putting a summary of any FAQ or questions that aren't covered in the blog in the FRONT FEW POSTS!
I would love to say I've read the lot looking for my answers, but I got as far as page 19 and gave up
at that point - CCP were going to get back to us regarding:

skiling up a pre-injected, and few-levels-trained skill for those who don't have the new pre-reqs

eg: command ships at III before update, Cal cruiser at V, HAS at IV, logi at IV; can fly any Cal Command ship
Don't have warfare doctrines to V (let's say I've not even injected armoured warfare)
will I be able to train command ships from III to IV after the update?

DISCLAIMER:

I am NOT talking about injecting a skill after the changeover
I am NOT talking about physically flying any of the ships

CCP - please put this at the beginning of the thread

EDIT: thank you CCP

For posting an idea into F&I: come up with idea, try and think how people could abuse this, try to fix your idea - loop the process until you can't see how it could be abused, then post to the forums to let us figure out how to abuse it..... If your idea can be abused, it [u]WILL[/u] be.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#657 - 2013-02-10 01:42:28 UTC
Xe'Cara'eos wrote:
skiling up a pre-injected, and few-levels-trained skill for those who don't have the new pre-reqs

You will be able to, yes.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
BEPOHNKA
Ner Vod Fleet Systems
Goonswarm Federation
#658 - 2013-02-10 03:26:52 UTC
“if you could fly it before, you can fly it now”

So not need to worry about changes of ships we can fly now than Cool.
Only effect players after who try and train so why the return on skill points as you clear said with the above statement.
Bubbleboylol
Militia Federation
#659 - 2013-02-10 06:42:23 UTC
Radius Prime wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


We are considering changing this so you can still train the skill even after the prerequisites are changed, we'll keep you posted as soon we have an answer.
[/list]


When will we have answer on that one? It is most important issue in your whole blog.






Correct. that is cool training after the prereq are met but that wont help the ship at all if i'm reading it right so it's like a false sense of security?

Asking to have more then one ( Option From CCP is like asking a chicken to cook it-self. )
Dan' Ehr
Dark Underground Forces
#660 - 2013-02-10 06:44:56 UTC
You do this without coughing up the skill point difference, I will pod you; you do this and take away ship commands we already possess, I will pod you twice. I demand you cover and compensate older players who have given so much, without who's support these past years you would have no game to change to suit newer players. I agree that these changes provide a streamlined cleanliness, but don't make all the time and effort your benefactors have put into this game for so long amount to waste.