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Did Tranquility lost 50,000 subscribers since Incarna?

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Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#41 - 2013-02-09 19:21:33 UTC
Here's to another decade of EVE dying.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#42 - 2013-02-09 19:23:18 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Turns out, PvP content was a reason to subscribe only to 21% of all new players in 2011.

New players have difficulty experiencing meaningful PVP combat because there are very few corps (especially in highsec, the training ground for new players!) that are willing to recruit newbies and show them a good time. Rolling around solo is what everyone is conditioned to do in highsec because of zero effort NPC corps and recyclable one man corps, and it's not fun especially for new players because they do not have access to very many shiny toys or the skill to use them.

You can only lose so many condors in lowsec to guys in vagabonds or to 3-4 man gangs and do so many level 1&2 missions by yourself before you get sick of the game. Those that subscribe are likely to perpetuate the cycle against new players and pick up bad habits, like never wanting to leave their fuzzy home of safer-than-highsec and have tantrums when pvp happens to them.

The 21% of new players you are talking about are likely players who have an instant "in", like members of Reddit who have access to different PvP corps, are friends of existing players who can get a vouch into their pvp corps, or people who enjoy RvB. Few are able to join an existing group and enjoy PvP on their own merits, that's why this number is so low.

By the way, 75% of existing players actually enjoy PVP. (source: http://i.imgur.com/BHkr164.png Fanfest economy presentation 2012). It's a mistake on the developers part when the default action is to not participate in it at all.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#43 - 2013-02-09 19:29:56 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:

There was pvp-content in the 2011 expansions ??
Seriously ?? o_O


Retribution came out in 2011??!!?

Dude, which year do we have ??


I have no idea Im still in shock over the bree in the sodastream
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#44 - 2013-02-09 19:36:29 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Turns out, bear content does not attract as many people as pvp content.


Turns out, PvP content was a reason to subscribe only to 21% of all new players in 2011.


Yet retribution which mainly deals with pvp is the best expansion for years after many pve focused expansions failed to deliver.

Ill take more people playing every day over some survay most didnt fill in.


I think Eve is just benefiting from the failed lauch for the Star Wars game. Not sure if Retribution is to blame. Lots of people that have been away for years are coming back. 3 or 4 of the people I've talked to in the last 3 days are returning after breaks of 5 and 6 years!
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#45 - 2013-02-09 19:42:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
EI Digin wrote:
....
By the way, 75% of existing players actually enjoy PVP. (source: http://i.imgur.com/BHkr164.png Fanfest economy presentation 2012). It's a mistake on the developers part when the default action is to not participate in it at all.

Even before RvB I thought it would be cool to have a dual corp like that, but with strict limits on SP's and ships, say under a million SP and only T1 ships running T1 mods, no rigs no implants. Then guys could get familiar with coms and fleet actions, blow though a ton of ships without alot of isk on the line and learn how the different ships work against one another. Anyone up for that sort of thing send me a mail.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#46 - 2013-02-09 19:49:53 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:


I think Eve is just benefiting from the failed lauch for the Star Wars game. Not sure if Retribution is to blame. Lots of people that have been away for years are coming back. 3 or 4 of the people I've talked to in the last 3 days are returning after breaks of 5 and 6 years!


That game died on impact a year ago.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#47 - 2013-02-09 19:54:23 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:


I think Eve is just benefiting from the failed lauch for the Star Wars game. Not sure if Retribution is to blame. Lots of people that have been away for years are coming back. 3 or 4 of the people I've talked to in the last 3 days are returning after breaks of 5 and 6 years!


That game died on impact a year ago.


Yeah thats my point, all these people coming back have been away for years and years, they are the guys who have other **** to do, but never forget that cool StarWars video game that people were talking about or that old Eve account they prolly still have.
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#48 - 2013-02-09 20:09:56 UTC
It was a great single player game, but I refuse to pay a subscription for a single player game. Shame on you Bioware!

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#49 - 2013-02-09 20:19:51 UTC
Fredfredbug4 wrote:
There was certainly a dip in players after Incarna, mostly due to bittervet rage and the crack down on bots which lead to a decrease in subscriptions.

However it's definitely back up now. I remember during Incarna, you would generally see around 34,000 people online at the height of the day. Now it's around 50,000 to 52,000 so there has been a significant bounce back.



Well Fred, PCU is slowly increaing after each iteration round, but the hard data is that there are less subscribers. They play more so the PCU is higher, but Tranquility's population has taken a hit and thus CCP's revenues (which depends upon subcribers, not how many people actually spends server bandwith).

And to me it all revolves around the same core issue, EVE's existing content has become too complex and fixing it is taking away new content. The lack of new content is stagnating Tranquility population both because existing players burn out of same old content and because EVE has run out of potential people who could be interested in the existing content. What's going on now is that people who expected WiS to become "new content" are leaving the game, slowly but steadily, and CCP's marketing efforts to draw back older players will only disguise the bleeding for a while.

Try to look at this game as someone who never interested enough in it, what does EVE offer to you in 2013? POS fixes (or maybe don't), which are largely irrelevant to you as not-yet-a-player, and maybe SOV fixes which are largely irrelevant to 90% the demographics of EVE, and many iterations of the same content didn't grabbed your attention for 10 years. What else is to come? Nothing.

So, if you didn't played EVE for 10 years, why should you play EVE now? There is nothing coming for you. CCP is not even trying to grab your attention. And they lost 50,000 subscribers in the last year.

Does this sound healthy?

Better yet, do you know what are CCP's plans? They're planning to get a plan, literally.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Dinsdale Pirannha
Pirannha Corp
#50 - 2013-02-09 20:23:26 UTC
Eve, breadth or depth?

Given that Fanfest sold out, it is clear there are a ton of people still passionate about Eve.
But the question that we know CCP is asking is are they looking at narrowing base with more people having increasing amounts of accounts.

I was speaking to a PL guy, who is up to 7 accounts. When he joined, he had 3.
The majority of the accounts are used to service his caps and supercaps (lots of cyno pilots).

It would be very interesting to know how many of the null sec alliance people have multiple accounts, and whether they are increasing their amount of accounts per player.
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#51 - 2013-02-09 20:23:45 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


Well Fred, PCU is slowly increaing after each iteration round, but the hard data is that there are less subscribers. They play more so the PCU is higher, but Tranquility's population has taken a hit and thus CCP's revenues (which depends upon subcribers, not how many people actually spends server bandwith).

And to me it all revolves around the same core issue, EVE's existing content has become too complex and fixing it is taking away new content. The lack of new content is stagnating Tranquility population both because existing players burn out of same old content and because EVE has run out of potential people who could be interested in the existing content. What's going on now is that people who expected WiS to become "new content" are leaving the game, slowly but steadily, and CCP's marketing efforts to draw back older players will only disguise the bleeding for a while.

Try to look at this game as someone who never interested enough in it, what does EVE offer to you in 2013? POS fixes (or maybe don't), which are largely irrelevant to you as not-yet-a-player, and maybe SOV fixes which are largely irrelevant to 90% the demographics of EVE, and many iterations of the same content didn't grabbed your attention for 10 years. What else is to come? Nothing.

So, if you didn't played EVE for 10 years, why should you play EVE now? There is nothing coming for you. CCP is not even trying to grab your attention. And they lost 50,000 subscribers in the last year.

Does this sound healthy?

Better yet, do you know what are CCP's plans? They're planning to get a plan, literally.


The ship rebalancing has resulted in more pvp now than we have seen in years. There are gangs litterally everywhere.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#52 - 2013-02-09 20:27:05 UTC
A majority of the playerbase isn't willing to experience "old" but exciting and meaningful content because it's not convenient for them. The issue isn't producing new content to appease them, but to get them to come outside of their cave.
Lipbite
Express Hauler
#53 - 2013-02-09 20:29:52 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Turns out, bear content does not attract as many people as pvp content.


I wouldn't call jail cell "content".
baltec1
Bat Country
Pandemic Horde
#54 - 2013-02-09 20:32:55 UTC
Lipbite wrote:
baltec1 wrote:
Turns out, bear content does not attract as many people as pvp content.


I wouldn't call jail cell "content".


Now now, to be fair you did spend 5 min looking for the toilet and trying to open the door.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#55 - 2013-02-09 20:33:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


Does this sound healthy?

Better yet, do you know what are CCP's plans? They're planning to get a plan, literally.


OMFG the Goons were right this is an "Eve is dying, I haz the solluzion thread."

lol, man you suck now I owe Ai an apology.

I'm sorry Ai, you were right, and it was wrong of me to mock you. *well, I wrongly mocked you. Had I been right it would have been entirely appropriate.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#56 - 2013-02-09 20:36:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
One thing is for sure we wont have Shadowfoot to kick around anymore. I think he mostly just mad about the juke box to.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=203549&find=unread
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#57 - 2013-02-09 20:51:07 UTC
EI Digin wrote:
A majority of the playerbase isn't willing to experience "old" but exciting and meaningful content because it's not convenient for them. The issue isn't producing new content to appease them, but to get them to come outside of their cave.


Yes, they should get rid fo their families, their friends, their jobs and whatever RL issues prevents them from fully enjoying EVE's rewards to those who can log in 30 hours a week.

Most players of EVE are soloers and most soloers are casuals and most casuals are so because of RL.

But then, developing EVE in new directions that fulfil the real needs of the real player base who pays the bills is like the most awful and uncool idea ever suggested.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2013-02-09 21:42:18 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:


Most players of EVE are soloers and most soloers are casuals and most casuals are so because of RL.



What about Faction Warfare? Looks fairly casual friendly to me, so far.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#59 - 2013-02-09 21:55:01 UTC
By the way, 75% of existing players actually enjoy PVP. (source: http://i.imgur.com/BHkr164.png Fanfest economy presentation 2012). It's a mistake on the developers part when the default action is to not participate in it at all.

Which presentation was this? I'd like to see the full thing.
EI Digin
irc.zulusquad.org
#60 - 2013-02-09 21:57:57 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Yes, they should get rid fo their families, their friends, their jobs and whatever RL issues prevents them from fully enjoying EVE's rewards to those who can log in 30 hours a week.

Most players of EVE are soloers and most soloers are casuals and most casuals are so because of RL.

But then, developing EVE in new directions that fulfil the real needs of the real player base who pays the bills is like the most awful and uncool idea ever suggested.

No, it does not take you 30 hours a week worth of contributions to enjoy playing in any corp (highsec, lowsec, or nullsec). I (and tens of thousands of other players) probably spend less than five hours per a week doing corp-related activities because I have found the right corp and alliance playstyle.

I can relax because there are other players who are not as "casual" as I am that are willing to put in the hours and do things that I don't necessarily like doing. When things get real I can come in and make a real contribution if I want to. This is how player groups survive. If some corp leaders don't see the game as a game instead of a lifestyle, they're bad leaders and their groups will collapse under pressure, as has been shown many times in the past, and present.

If you want to play by yourself, by all means you should be able to, but you should still be subject to the rules of the place you currently live in and not live in pseudo rookie-mode for your entire career. When the most optimal playstyle is to stick your head into the sandbox and never leave your comfort zone, it breeds stagnation, contempt for others who dare interfere with your operations, and is bad for the game. The fear of being in a corporation of people who share your interests is completely unnecessary.

Developing new features is very cost-hungry and results in a lot of planning and things have to be done properly without any issues, resulting in a lot of development time for sometimes little results (Captains Quarters!). In comparison, tweaking the current game so that it is more playable is a lot easier, and results in players who disliked the way old things worked coming back. We all want to see cool new features, but making existing content work the way it is supposed to is more important.