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Dev blog: The great ship skill change of summer 2013

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Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#601 - 2013-02-09 12:29:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Chi'Nane T'Kal
Cyaron wars wrote:
I have spent ~$15 per month and 40 days for each Battleship lvl 5 just to be able to fly all capital ships. This is roughly $90 and 6 ~5.5 months of training. Now you say that this requirements are going to be reduced and somebody else will get same product that I got ,but only for $15 and 2-3 weeks of training.


I bought a computer 3 years ago for 1000$. Last week someone bought the same computer for 100$.

Boy, I really feel cheated and want my money back! Also I will never buy a computer again, it's a total rip off!
Caius Sivaris
Dark Nexxus
#602 - 2013-02-09 12:49:16 UTC
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Alrigh folks, good news.

We'll change the way training works so that you can still train the skills you have after change, even if you don't meet the prerequisite anymore.

Ex:

You have Amarr Freighter 1 after the change but not Advanced Spaceship Command 5. You can still fly the Providence and you will now still be able to train Amarr Freighter past 1 as long as you have the skill injected.


Hope that's clear - trying my very best Sad


I don't see how different rules for different people is good news...
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#603 - 2013-02-09 12:58:20 UTC
Caius Sivaris wrote:
CCP Ytterbium wrote:
Alrigh folks, good news.

We'll change the way training works so that you can still train the skills you have after change, even if you don't meet the prerequisite anymore.

Ex:

You have Amarr Freighter 1 after the change but not Advanced Spaceship Command 5. You can still fly the Providence and you will now still be able to train Amarr Freighter past 1 as long as you have the skill injected.


Hope that's clear - trying my very best Sad


I don't see how different rules for different people is good news...


It's good news because apparently training skills where prereqs were missing was NOT explicitely impossible in the past but caused all kinds of bugs with the skill queue. So simply allowing any injected skill to be trained seems a good way to prevent all kinds of headaches.
Cyaron wars
Academia RED HOT Corporation
#604 - 2013-02-09 13:13:28 UTC
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
Cyaron wars wrote:
I have spent ~$15 per month and 40 days for each Battleship lvl 5 just to be able to fly all capital ships. This is roughly $90 and 6 ~5.5 months of training. Now you say that this requirements are going to be reduced and somebody else will get same product that I got ,but only for $15 and 2-3 weeks of training.


I bought a computer 3 years ago for 1000$. Last week someone bought the same computer for 100$.

Boy, I really feel cheated and want my money back! Also I will never buy a computer again, it's a total rip off!


If you woul'd read post till the end you wouldn't comment this, but let me explain how things work.

Price of goods drop only after better version is released. For exaple u buy iphone 4 and then iphone 5 is released. Or apple will say that iphone 4 is crap.
In case with this one we haven't got any better version of capitals that erquire LVL 5 skills.
Iris Bravemount
Golden Grinding Gears
#605 - 2013-02-09 13:14:39 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:

The Command ship skill requires the training of the skills for exactly 0 links. Note that there is a big difference between "Armored Warfare" and "Armored Warfare Specialist".

The skills that are being added to the command ship skill prereqs all give bonuses to your fleet even if you don't fit any warfare links, and are therefore all very valuable for any character that wants to sit in a squad command position, command ship or not.


You mean squad booster position, right?

Yes, I am bored Roll

"I will not hesitate when the test of Faith finds me, for only the strongest conviction will open the gates of paradise. My Faith in you is absolute; my sword is Yours, My God, and Your will guides me now and for all eternity." - Paladin's Creed
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#606 - 2013-02-09 13:51:09 UTC
Cyaron wars wrote:
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
Cyaron wars wrote:
I have spent ~$15 per month and 40 days for each Battleship lvl 5 just to be able to fly all capital ships. This is roughly $90 and 6 ~5.5 months of training. Now you say that this requirements are going to be reduced and somebody else will get same product that I got ,but only for $15 and 2-3 weeks of training.


I bought a computer 3 years ago for 1000$. Last week someone bought the same computer for 100$.

Boy, I really feel cheated and want my money back! Also I will never buy a computer again, it's a total rip off!


If you woul'd read post till the end you wouldn't comment this, but let me explain how things work.

Price of goods drop only after better version is released. For exaple u buy iphone 4 and then iphone 5 is released. Or apple will say that iphone 4 is crap.
In case with this one we haven't got any better version of capitals that erquire LVL 5 skills.

then again I have, according to you, "wasted time" to train all battleship skills to 5, and I don't feel cheated.

why? because they are still useful.

I mean, last time I checked, BS V isn't only good for capital ships.

I know, shocking.

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#607 - 2013-02-09 13:53:47 UTC
CCP TOOK AWAY BS 5 WITHOUT TELLING US
RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Dysgenesis
Dhoomcats
#608 - 2013-02-09 14:19:41 UTC
Personally I think adding module skills as a prerequisite for new pilots to train for a hull to be a major error of judgement. The reason given (so people aren't confused by an apparently shorter training time) is weak, no-one should be surprised that you have to train more than just the basic hull skill to improve your abilities in a given ship beyond the absolute basics required to fly it. However my main problem is if forces people to fly ships for their given role rather than whatever purpose they want. The best example are command ships, only a proportion fly them because they want to boost fleets, many fly them because they are good ships for many other roles (such as solo/small gang pvp)

Also on that note, say you have command ships I and all the warfare skills to 4. After the patch I appreciate you will retain command ships I and still be able to fly the ship, but can you train command ships to level II? (I apologise if this has already been answered).
CCP Fozzie
C C P
C C P Alliance
#609 - 2013-02-09 17:13:01 UTC
Dysgenesis wrote:

Also on that note, say you have command ships I and all the warfare skills to 4. After the patch I appreciate you will retain command ships I and still be able to fly the ship, but can you train command ships to level II? (I apologise if this has already been answered).


Yes you will be able to continue to train the skill as long as you have it injected before the patch.

Game Designer | Team Five-0

Twitter: @CCP_Fozzie
Twitch chat: ccp_fozzie
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#610 - 2013-02-09 17:16:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Savira Terrant
Dysgenesis wrote:
Personally I think adding module skills as a prerequisite for new pilots to train for a hull to be a major error of judgement. The reason given (so people aren't confused by an apparently shorter training time) is weak, no-one should be surprised that you have to train more than just the basic hull skill to improve your abilities in a given ship beyond the absolute basics required to fly it. However my main problem is if forces people to fly ships for their given role rather than whatever purpose they want. The best example are command ships, only a proportion fly them because they want to boost fleets, many fly them because they are good ships for many other roles (such as solo/small gang pvp)

Also on that note, say you have command ships I and all the warfare skills to 4. After the patch I appreciate you will retain command ships I and still be able to fly the ship, but can you train command ships to level II? (I apologise if this has already been answered).



Somebody PLEASE update the devblog itself, before the next person joining in the frenzy asks the same questions OVER AND OVER again!

Put it at the top and in yellow.

Edit: Better yet, pink!


But I somehow like the first paragraph of the quoted post.

.
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#611 - 2013-02-09 18:30:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Ubat Batuk
"If it worked before it will work after"... not true. To get to the maximum bonuses on BCs which BTW I already have, I will have to re-skill 3 of them!

Today I have BC 5, I can fly all BCs with max bonuses, therefore to be fair you have to give me BC 5 for all races. If I have BC 4 I must get BC 4 for all races.

This is my 2 cents.


NOTE: edited due to clarifications provided. I would recommend that a FAQ is added as supplement to the original blog avoiding people having to read through 30+ pages of comments, as also suggested by some other player. Thank you.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#612 - 2013-02-09 18:39:39 UTC
Ubat Batuk wrote:
"If it worked before it will work after"... not true. To get to the maximum bonuses on BCs which BTW I already have, I will have to re-skill 3 of them! Most people do not understand the impact of this, see when that happens!

I didn't ask for this change! Today I have BC 5, I can fly all BCs with max bonuses, therefore to be fair you have to give me BC 5 for all races. If I have BC 4 I must get BC 4 for all races. Are you seriously thinking that I am going to let this happen and keep quiet? I am losing in this.

Were you dropped on your head as a kid, or do you just like the taste of lead paint chips?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#613 - 2013-02-09 18:43:35 UTC
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
Cyaron wars wrote:
I have spent ~$15 per month and 40 days for each Battleship lvl 5 just to be able to fly all capital ships. This is roughly $90 and 6 ~5.5 months of training. Now you say that this requirements are going to be reduced and somebody else will get same product that I got ,but only for $15 and 2-3 weeks of training.


I bought a computer 3 years ago for 1000$. Last week someone bought the same computer for 100$.

Boy, I really feel cheated and want my money back! Also I will never buy a computer again, it's a total rip off!


How can you compare a piece of hardware to EVE? did the cost of subscription go down? did SPs depreciate? wake up my friend! I agree that this change is unfair.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#614 - 2013-02-09 18:46:28 UTC
Ubat Batuk wrote:
How can you compare a piece of hardware to EVE? did the cost of subscription go down? did SPs depreciate? wake up my friend! I agree that this change is unfair.

Learn to read before you go criticizing CCP.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#615 - 2013-02-09 18:47:08 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Ubat Batuk wrote:
"If it worked before it will work after"... not true. To get to the maximum bonuses on BCs which BTW I already have, I will have to re-skill 3 of them! Most people do not understand the impact of this, see when that happens!

I didn't ask for this change! Today I have BC 5, I can fly all BCs with max bonuses, therefore to be fair you have to give me BC 5 for all races. If I have BC 4 I must get BC 4 for all races. Are you seriously thinking that I am going to let this happen and keep quiet? I am losing in this.

Were you dropped on your head as a kid, or do you just like the taste of lead paint chips?


What? see what people play EVE... no comment. Sad.
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#616 - 2013-02-09 18:48:10 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Ubat Batuk wrote:
How can you compare a piece of hardware to EVE? did the cost of subscription go down? did SPs depreciate? wake up my friend! I agree that this change is unfair.

Learn to read before you go criticizing CCP.



I support CCP my friend, however I do not support the current management.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#617 - 2013-02-09 18:50:21 UTC
Ubat Batuk wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Ubat Batuk wrote:
How can you compare a piece of hardware to EVE? did the cost of subscription go down? did SPs depreciate? wake up my friend! I agree that this change is unfair.

Learn to read before you go criticizing CCP.



I support CCP my friend, however I do not support the current management.

If you had actually bothered reading the dev blog or any of the pages of this thread you would have realized just how stupid you sound.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Savira Terrant
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#618 - 2013-02-09 18:51:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Savira Terrant
Ubat Batuk wrote:
"If it worked before it will work after"... not true. To get to the maximum bonuses on BCs which BTW I already have, I will have to re-skill 3 of them! Most people do not understand the impact of this, see when that happens!

I didn't ask for this change! Today I have BC 5, I can fly all BCs with max bonuses, therefore to be fair you have to give me BC 5 for all races. If I have BC 4 I must get BC 4 for all races. Are you seriously thinking that I am going to let this happen and keep quiet? I am losing in this.

I want to continue playing EVE but I am getting more and more disenfranchised for every "expansion" which I am sorry to say it doesn't expand anything except for people's rage. Where is the expansion? I would call it reconfiguration to make things easy for noobs and give hell to people who have already invested lots of bucks into EVE. Do you recall how you killed incursions for example?

I would like to recommend a couple of things to CCP:

1. Get a proper CEO
2. Get proper executive management
3. For speeches and videos use actors so that you get the best result
4. Recruit someone who helps you align to your customers' needs and priorities
5. Play EVE yourself with a standard character that you must train from scratch, just like me

This is my 2 cents.

Rage +1


People please read the DEVBLOG!

If you have BC 5 and all four cruisers to 3 you will get ALL 4 BC skills to 5. Just how often does that need to be answeared?!

And stating that you can fly all BC perfecly also means you already have all four cruisers to at least 3 - problem solved.

Even if you did not have all cruisers to 3, that is what this freaking announcement almost half a year before changes hit is for!


Also: "disenfranchised" - are you serious? Only because you pay a subscription does not mean you are some kind of shareholder of CCP. Or how would you ever have had a r"ight to vote"?

.
fukier
Gallente Federation
#619 - 2013-02-09 18:57:59 UTC
CCP Fozzie wrote:
Dysgenesis wrote:

Also on that note, say you have command ships I and all the warfare skills to 4. After the patch I appreciate you will retain command ships I and still be able to fly the ship, but can you train command ships to level II? (I apologise if this has already been answered).


Yes you will be able to continue to train the skill as long as you have it injected before the patch.



it would be funny on patch day if you are one day away from injecting the skill for command ships and then just to find out you have 3 more weeks of training...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Ubat Batuk
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#620 - 2013-02-09 18:58:41 UTC
Savira Terrant wrote:
Ubat Batuk wrote:
"If it worked before it will work after"... not true. To get to the maximum bonuses on BCs which BTW I already have, I will have to re-skill 3 of them! Most people do not understand the impact of this, see when that happens!

I didn't ask for this change! Today I have BC 5, I can fly all BCs with max bonuses, therefore to be fair you have to give me BC 5 for all races. If I have BC 4 I must get BC 4 for all races. Are you seriously thinking that I am going to let this happen and keep quiet? I am losing in this.

I want to continue playing EVE but I am getting more and more disenfranchised for every "expansion" which I am sorry to say it doesn't expand anything except for people's rage. Where is the expansion? I would call it reconfiguration to make things easy for noobs and give hell to people who have already invested lots of bucks into EVE. Do you recall how you killed incursions for example?

I would like to recommend a couple of things to CCP:

1. Get a proper CEO
2. Get proper executive management
3. For speeches and videos use actors so that you get the best result
4. Recruit someone who helps you align to your customers' needs and priorities
5. Play EVE yourself with a standard character that you must train from scratch, just like me

This is my 2 cents.

Rage +1


People please read the DEVBLOG!

If you have BC 5 and all four cruisers to 3 you will get ALL 4 BC skills to 5. Just how often does that need to be answeared?!

And stating that you can fly all BC perfecly also means you already have all four cruisers to at least 3 - problem solved.


Also: "disenfranchised" - are you serious? Only because you pay a subscription does not mean you are somekind of shareholder of CCP. Or how would you ever have had a right to "vote"?


I have read the DEV blog and the fact that it's not clear to me it means it's not written well enough.
To your other point, yes I can vote and I have the right to criticise a decision or things that I think are not right. Why would you have the forums then? You can ban me if you wish.