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CCP wants MORE -10 suicide alts! Evidence? Crimewatch.
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Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#41 - 2013-02-09 12:31:25 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Eugene Kerner wrote:

U mad? U sure seem Mad!


Troll successful.
Memo taken.


Seriously I appreciate your posts. You break down flaws in the game mechanics for a wide audience..and this is a good thing.
I mean...there is actually a "Lex Wilkus" so I sure have respect for that.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Haedonism Bot
People for the Ethical Treatment of Rogue Drones
#42 - 2013-02-09 12:38:11 UTC
sYnc Vir wrote:
Ganking miners is what eve players do before they quit the game. Its a task for those that lack any talent, skill or drive to do anything other then grief the easiest targets in New Eden.

Nothing about ganking them takes skill at all. Killing 100 miners in highsec does not a pirate make. Real pirates don't give two ***** about warping in dessi to kill an untanked piece of rust. Its highsec, its like the third best space in eve.

Losec
Worm
Highsec
Null

Null comes last because 97% of the players I've met there are just plan stupid and/or **** at eve.


Try it sometime, you might change your mind. Piracy is about raiding commerce and industry, and there is a notable dearth of commerce or industry in low and null. W-space has potential, but highsec is where the bears truly are. Piracy is not about being nice or looking for fair fights.

www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com

Vote Sabriz Adoudel and Tora Bushido for CSMX. Keep the Evil in EVE!
Katran Luftschreck
Royal Ammatar Engineering Corps
#43 - 2013-02-09 13:33:37 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
For example: In 2012, CCP decided that they wanted more AFK mining, scripting, mass multiboxing and otherwise disengaged gameplay in EVE.


Sorry, I had to stop reading there because the needle in my bullshit detector blew out of the glass and got stuck in the wall.

http://youtu.be/t0q2F8NsYQ0
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#44 - 2013-02-09 13:38:26 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Eugene Kerner wrote:

U mad? U sure seem Mad!


Troll successful.
Memo taken.


Seriously I appreciate your posts. You break down flaws in the game mechanics for a wide audience..and this is a good thing.
I mean...there is actually a "Lex Wilkus" so I sure have respect for that.


Mainly I'm trying to get a handle on where CCP is going. Predicting DEV behavior is a mug's game to certain extent, of course.
On the surface, Crimewatch seems like a pretty straight forward move to increase safety in highsec and discourage 'bad' behavior.

But its too easy to just scream and yell, accuse CCP of trying to create a 'high sec theme park'.

On one hand, just read the forum wars from 3-4 years ago. The goalposts have clearly shifted towards a safer highsec - and that journey started long before I started playing. Don't think anyone can argue otherwise.

On the other, Crimewatch, with regards to high-sec criminal activity doesn't add up.
Is this by design, or an oversight? Why put a bunch of features in place that have no meaningful effect on the most significant type of 'crime' that exists in highsec - or in fact, indirectly rewards them?

I don't seriously think that bounties were intended to be a 'ganker welfare' program. But the easiest fix....removing bounties from all Concord kills - would make 'hunting' these types of criminals as pointless as placing the bounty in the first place.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#45 - 2013-02-09 13:42:31 UTC
Katran Luftschreck wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:
For example: In 2012, CCP decided that they wanted more AFK mining, scripting, mass multiboxing and otherwise disengaged gameplay in EVE.


Sorry, I had to stop reading there because the needle in my bullshit detector blew out of the glass and got stuck in the wall.


I refer you to Exhibit A:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=200503&find=unread

And I assure you there are many, many others.
Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#46 - 2013-02-09 14:00:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Karrl Tian
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
Takseen wrote:
Karrl Tian wrote:

Losing public killrights is easy; as carebears don't understand PvP in this game, most will put them up for low isk or even free, meaning you just let somebody pop you in a rookie ship and then it's back to business because they're gone after you lose a ship, any ship.


Nice. I wouldn't have thought of that.


CCP should probably remove that, the fact that killrights can be "completed" by losing a free rookie ship by getting yourself blown up by your alt is a form of carebear-ism, just well.....from "pvp-ers".


It's only "free" if they put the killright up for free. If they set it at 150mil and then you spend 150mil blowing up your own rookie ship so your mission boat isn't at risk, then they accomplished their goal of making you lose isk for killing them regardless of who killed what.

Of course if you were ganked by a -10 alt then as the OP mentioned you're just SOL.

sYnc Vir wrote:


Killing 100 miners in highsec does not a pirate make. Real pirates don't give two ***** about warping in dessi to kill an untanked piece of rust.



Real pirates don't give two ***** about their k/d ratio and are doing it for the iskies.

Another non-pirate explaining piracy.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#47 - 2013-02-09 14:02:31 UTC
What is the drive to unilaterally go forth and break the stuff of others in this fashion?
I cannot comprehend why you take such maleficent joy in these matters beholden and thus seek for enlightenment on matters bespoken of.

Also why does a gank get a good fight?
If the other guy had null chance of even getting the damage update before his pod is thrust forth into the cruel uncaringness of space how could there even be a fight?
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#48 - 2013-02-09 15:23:30 UTC
NEONOVUS wrote:
What is the drive to unilaterally go forth and break the stuff of others in this fashion?
I cannot comprehend why you take such maleficent joy in these matters beholden and thus seek for enlightenment on matters bespoken of.

Also why does a gank get a good fight?
If the other guy had null chance of even getting the damage update before his pod is thrust forth into the cruel uncaringness of space how could there even be a fight?


In reality, a damage report would be of little use to the pod, because the pod is typically smooshed shortly afterwards. Everyone wants to see what implants were there. Why a % of them do not drop, or can be reprocessed from corpses, I cannot fathom.
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#49 - 2013-02-09 16:19:57 UTC
Haedonism Bot wrote:
sYnc Vir wrote:
Ganking miners is what eve players do before they quit the game. Its a task for those that lack any talent, skill or drive to do anything other then grief the easiest targets in New Eden.

Nothing about ganking them takes skill at all. Killing 100 miners in highsec does not a pirate make. Real pirates don't give two ***** about warping in dessi to kill an untanked piece of rust. Its highsec, its like the third best space in eve.

Losec
Worm
Highsec
Null

Null comes last because 97% of the players I've met there are just plan stupid and/or **** at eve.


Try it sometime, you might change your mind. Piracy is about raiding commerce and industry, and there is a notable dearth of commerce or industry in low and null. W-space has potential, but highsec is where the bears truly are. Piracy is not about being nice or looking for fair fights.


Piracy is about roaming dangerous yet rewarding space with bad intentions. Nothing about warping in on a cloaky salvager and killing the easier pray is that. Any real pirate would be truly embrassed to have a KB full of such targets.

I think in my entire eve life, I've maybe 1 or two highsec miner kills. Thank god for that, I never needed to reduce myself to the level of a baby seal killing idiot to become -10. Sure I've camped station, gates, and even smartbombed FW missioners, but it was all done in losec were, and often the people I killed could and did do something about it.

Going after rock sucking ships is truly the lowest form of pvp. I neither respect it, or the people that do it. Had I remained one of my corps recruiters anyone with a KB full of miner kills would have been rejected based purely on there lack of skill at getting actually kills.

I would say the only real thing killing miners does is make ships more expensive, however any single medium sized market trader can do that far more effectively with 5 minutes of market trading.

Too many people in this game, just lack imagination.

Log in, kill easiest thing in eve, smack about tears, high five other idiot, forum post log off.

How truly sad that sounds. Thank god for losec.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2013-02-09 16:56:57 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
NEONOVUS wrote:
What is the drive to unilaterally go forth and break the stuff of others in this fashion?
I cannot comprehend why you take such maleficent joy in these matters beholden and thus seek for enlightenment on matters bespoken of.

Also why does a gank get a good fight?
If the other guy had null chance of even getting the damage update before his pod is thrust forth into the cruel uncaringness of space how could there even be a fight?


In reality, a damage report would be of little use to the pod, because the pod is typically smooshed shortly afterwards. Everyone wants to see what implants were there. Why a % of them do not drop, or can be reprocessed from corpses, I cannot fathom.


If you can't extract an implant from a clone even in a controlled medical station setting, it wouldn't make much sense to be able to extract anything useful from a ruptured pod.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#51 - 2013-02-09 17:34:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Wilkus
sYnc Vir wrote:

Piracy is about roaming dangerous yet rewarding space with bad intentions. Nothing about warping in on a cloaky salvager and killing the easier pray is that. Any real pirate would be truly embrassed to have a KB full of such targets.

I think in my entire eve life, I've maybe 1 or two highsec miner kills. Thank god for that, I never needed to reduce myself to the level of a baby seal killing idiot to become -10. Sure I've camped station, gates, and even smartbombed FW missioners, but it was all done in losec were, and often the people I killed could and did do something about it.

Going after rock sucking ships is truly the lowest form of pvp. I neither respect it, or the people that do it. Had I remained one of my corps recruiters anyone with a KB full of miner kills would have been rejected based purely on there lack of skill at getting actually kills.

I would say the only real thing killing miners does is make ships more expensive, however any single medium sized market trader can do that far more effectively with 5 minutes of market trading.

Too many people in this game, just lack imagination.

Log in, kill easiest thing in eve, smack about tears, high five other idiot, forum post log off.

How truly sad that sounds. Thank god for losec.


Is this some strange definition of 'pirate' you have invented that I don't understand? You low-sec conceit makes me laugh.
You seem to prefer targets that shoot back, which is fine, but I suggest you cease using the term 'pirate' to describe yourself.

Highsec ganking activity far more closely resembles piracy than anything you seem to be doing. Perhaps you simply have a pirate fetish? A pirate wannabe, perhaps?

Traditionally, pirates attack targets that were A) profitable and B) weak/unarmed.
Why? Because the motivation was economic, and getting killed fighting tends to make it hard to realize a profit.
Ask any Somalian. Attack a fat, juicy freighter or a warship? If you seriously expect him to tangle with the US Navy, 'because they shoot back' and he'll simply call YOU the idiot.

Now, I'm not saying that I consider myself a pirate, either, because I'm not especially interested in deriving income from my ganking. I just want my victims to quit EVE. So I work to maximize carebear suffering at a minimum cost. Repeatedly killing/podding miners every 15 minutes is a good way to accomplish this. It maximizes their sense of hopelessness, saps their will to log in - only to get popped again. Eventually they just stop paying subscriptions and get on with their life.

You might find roaming lowsec and popping frigates entertaining, but I consider it to be pointless sparring. The ISK destroyed per hour is pathetic. The tears are non-existent because you aren't really 'victimizing' anybody at all - because most people in lowsec are there looking for fights. Providing 'good fights' in lowsec will, simply put, not cause the victim to suffer.

**(Granted, Freight Club does some pretty impressive work on Jump Freighters - but I consider that the exception, not the rule.)
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#52 - 2013-02-09 17:39:15 UTC
Hisec ganking resembles kamikazes more so then piracy. With piracy you usually try not to destroy the loot.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#53 - 2013-02-09 17:43:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Wilkus
Takseen wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:
NEONOVUS wrote:
What is the drive to unilaterally go forth and break the stuff of others in this fashion?
I cannot comprehend why you take such maleficent joy in these matters beholden and thus seek for enlightenment on matters bespoken of.

Also why does a gank get a good fight?
If the other guy had null chance of even getting the damage update before his pod is thrust forth into the cruel uncaringness of space how could there even be a fight?


In reality, a damage report would be of little use to the pod, because the pod is typically smooshed shortly afterwards. Everyone wants to see what implants were there. Why a % of them do not drop, or can be reprocessed from corpses, I cannot fathom.


If you can't extract an implant from a clone even in a controlled medical station setting, it wouldn't make much sense to be able to extract anything useful from a ruptured pod.


Eh, whatever. Make up some scientific invention/gizmo. Its all make-believe fluff anyway.
And while we are at it, make it possible to scan implants in capsules as well.

I'm talking about CCP providing an economic incentive to pod other players.
If pods dropped loot, even more people would go out of their way to pop them. (and the proceeds could pay for more ganking ships.) This would make having high-grade implants even more risky than it is today - but I'm sure Darwin will sort it out. The strong will survive, and the weak and stupid will be victimized appropriately.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#54 - 2013-02-09 17:45:16 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Hisec ganking resembles kamikazes more so then piracy. With piracy you usually try not to destroy the loot.

If your ship is about to blow up, why would you eject and give the pirate full loot? EVE has particular mechanics that promote ganking as a method of piracy in high-sec.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Whitehound
#55 - 2013-02-09 17:55:58 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Hisec ganking resembles kamikazes more so then piracy. With piracy you usually try not to destroy the loot.

Well, not much a pirate can do about that when it is a game mechanic, which decides what gets dropped and what does not.

My impression of piracy has always been that of acquiring something for little to no cost. If this is done in real-life with speed boats and pirats climbing on board a container ship to steal stuff, or in movies where it serves a good purpose even when it includes challenging and fighting authorities. And kamikazes have always been an heroic act against overwhelming, deadly forces in order to resist them when fighting them any other way meant death was a certainty no matter what you did.

My impression of ganking, when it is not done for profit, is that of a pressure valve for kids to whom success in EVE fails to come easy, the complexity of the game stays unchallenged, but instead to blame other players for having fun with something these kids can only comprehend as boring such as mining.

So I would not want to compare piracy or kamikaze with ganking, but I can see some good in ganking for a game like EVE.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#56 - 2013-02-09 18:00:34 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Hisec ganking resembles kamikazes more so then piracy. With piracy you usually try not to destroy the loot.

If your ship is about to blow up, why would you eject and give the pirate full loot? EVE has particular mechanics that promote ganking as a method of piracy in high-sec.


Ganking haulers has always been about the loot.
Ganking Exhumers, too, was profitable until recent ill-advised rule changes.
Which would place both activities in the realm of 'piracy'. Pirate blows up the target in the hopes of clearing a profit when the smoke clears.

I'd say that current day 'miner ganking' could be considered closer to a 'kamikaze' campaign however.
"I don't care how much I lose (Zero fighter/Catalyst) - as long as YOU lose more. (Escort Carrier/Exhumer)"
Of course, pods are immortal in EVE, but the economics of the two scenarios are similar.
Loot is recovered from Exhumers simply to help defray costs, not build up a balance.

Whatever the other guy was talking about, "killing people who could and would do something about it"....doesn't really resemble piracy at all. 'Targets Shooting Back' or a 'fair fight' is not a precondition of piracy. One has nothing to do with the other.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#57 - 2013-02-09 18:09:10 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Whatever the other guy was talking about, "killing people who could and would do something about it"....doesn't really resemble piracy at all. 'Targets Shooting Back' or a 'fair fight' is not a precondition of piracy. One has nothing to do with the other.

Anyone with half a brain can see that.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#58 - 2013-02-09 18:23:52 UTC
Karl Hobb wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Whatever the other guy was talking about, "killing people who could and would do something about it"....doesn't really resemble piracy at all. 'Targets Shooting Back' or a 'fair fight' is not a precondition of piracy. One has nothing to do with the other.

Anyone with half a brain can see that.


You would think, right?
If low-sec wasn't an economic wasteland I could see piracy actually existing out there. Currently, its just a playground for skirmishers and FW. Economically, its simply a cyno point for JFs on the way between highsec markets and nulsec empires.
NEONOVUS
Mindstar Technology
Goonswarm Federation
#59 - 2013-02-09 19:32:51 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
NEONOVUS wrote:
What is the drive to unilaterally go forth and break the stuff of others in this fashion?
I cannot comprehend why you take such maleficent joy in these matters beholden and thus seek for enlightenment on matters bespoken of.

Also why does a gank get a good fight?
If the other guy had null chance of even getting the damage update before his pod is thrust forth into the cruel uncaringness of space how could there even be a fight?


In reality, a damage report would be of little use to the pod, because the pod is typically smooshed shortly afterwards. Everyone wants to see what implants were there. Why a % of them do not drop, or can be reprocessed from corpses, I cannot fathom.

No I meant alpha ganks or sufficient blob that you destroy his ship before he is even aware you have locked him.

Although I do like the idea of getting implants from pods/corpses.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#60 - 2013-02-09 20:20:29 UTC
All ganking in highsec needs to be nerfed. If you want to shoot player ships, then get in a blob and shoot the primary target.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?