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CCP wants MORE -10 suicide alts! Evidence? Crimewatch.
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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#21 - 2013-02-09 03:35:21 UTC
Whitehound wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:
So, what are you waiting for? Who are you to deny the word of the Creator?
Roll up that alt today and start training for Catalysts and Light Neutron Blaster IIs. Pronto.
Adventure awaits. Pirate

Where is the candy?!

I want men with candy telling me to get in.

:getin: huh.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Agent Trask
Doomheim
#22 - 2013-02-09 05:21:10 UTC
Tubrug1 wrote:
Congratulations, you've just worked out what the New Order started doing 3 months ago.


I need to gank harder. Blow up more pods, maybe.

I haven't reached -10 yet.

I am NEVER going to grind status back up.

Join the New Order, buy your permit today, and follow the code.

www.minerbumping.com
Jason Xado
Doomheim
#23 - 2013-02-09 05:26:19 UTC
Multiboxing is valid gameplay.
Karrl Tian
Doomheim
#24 - 2013-02-09 06:33:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Karrl Tian
Takseen wrote:
So...the crimewatch system encourages the development of a subclass of people devoted exclusively to criminality, while discouraging normal citizens from engaging in said crimes?


AFK mining and running lvl 4s out of trade hubs may not be possible when you have transferable kill rights on you, but it hardly requires you to roll an alt. The tedium of grinding sec status makes people roll gank alts more than anything. At the end of the day, killrights are like being under a war dec with another individual who gets a free aggress.

Losing public killrights is easy; as carebears don't understand PvP in this game, most will put them up for low isk or even free, meaning you just let somebody pop you in a rookie ship and then it's back to business because they're gone after you lose a ship, any ship.

The most of I've had for one was 100mil, which was kind of smart as it prevented me from throwing it away in a cheap ship (or so I thought), but someone still activated that just to pop my destroyer. I know a kill's a kill, but I'd have flagged myself to them for half if they'd just asked.
Whitehound
#25 - 2013-02-09 07:10:39 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Whitehound wrote:
Herr Wilkus wrote:
So, what are you waiting for? Who are you to deny the word of the Creator?
Roll up that alt today and start training for Catalysts and Light Neutron Blaster IIs. Pronto.
Adventure awaits. Pirate

Where is the candy?!

I want men with candy telling me to get in.

:getin: huh.

And where is my candy??

I want candy! If you have no friggin' candy then GTFO!!!

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade
Ghost Legion.
#26 - 2013-02-09 08:26:29 UTC
Ganking miners is what eve players do before they quit the game. Its a task for those that lack any talent, skill or drive to do anything other then grief the easiest targets in New Eden.

Nothing about ganking them takes skill at all. Killing 100 miners in highsec does not a pirate make. Real pirates don't give two ***** about warping in dessi to kill an untanked piece of rust. Its highsec, its like the third best space in eve.

Losec
Worm
Highsec
Null

Null comes last because 97% of the players I've met there are just plan stupid and/or **** at eve.

Don't ask about Italics, just tilt your head.
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
#27 - 2013-02-09 08:49:28 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Sometimes you just have to learn how to read the tea leaves. Ignore the happy talk and PR - just look at what the DEVs do with their code.
...

What is the lesson?? Simple.
CCP wants players to perform suicide ganking in highsec with dedicated -10 alts, NOT 'generalist' characters.
Penalites were heaped upon one type of ganker, while life was actually improved for the other.

So, what are you waiting for? Who are you to deny the word of the Creator?
Roll up that alt today and start training for Catalysts and Light Neutron Blaster IIs. Pronto.
Adventure awaits. Pirate

What happened to your decision to never post about tear extraction mechanics again?

Remove standings and insurance.
Takseen
Federal Defense Union
Gallente Federation
#28 - 2013-02-09 10:12:50 UTC
Karrl Tian wrote:

Losing public killrights is easy; as carebears don't understand PvP in this game, most will put them up for low isk or even free, meaning you just let somebody pop you in a rookie ship and then it's back to business because they're gone after you lose a ship, any ship.


Nice. I wouldn't have thought of that.
Whitehound
#29 - 2013-02-09 10:42:44 UTC
Takseen wrote:
Karrl Tian wrote:

Losing public killrights is easy; as carebears don't understand PvP in this game, most will put them up for low isk or even free, meaning you just let somebody pop you in a rookie ship and then it's back to business because they're gone after you lose a ship, any ship.


Nice. I wouldn't have thought of that.

That is why you should put a proper price tag on a killright. All it then does is to force a pilot to fly cheap or to buy them off of you.

Selling a killright or just putting it up for sale is not going to kill anyone just like placing a bounty does not get anyone killed.

If you want someone dead then you better do it yourself - it still holds true and it has not changed with killrights.

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-02-09 10:42:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiteo Hatto
Takseen wrote:
Karrl Tian wrote:

Losing public killrights is easy; as carebears don't understand PvP in this game, most will put them up for low isk or even free, meaning you just let somebody pop you in a rookie ship and then it's back to business because they're gone after you lose a ship, any ship.


Nice. I wouldn't have thought of that.


CCP should probably remove that, the fact that killrights can be "completed" by losing a free rookie ship by getting yourself blown up by your alt is a form of carebear-ism, just well.....from "pvp-ers".
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2013-02-09 10:51:59 UTC
Came in expecting news...left disappointed.
This is so 12 months ago.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#32 - 2013-02-09 11:08:27 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
Takseen wrote:
Karrl Tian wrote:

Losing public killrights is easy; as carebears don't understand PvP in this game, most will put them up for low isk or even free, meaning you just let somebody pop you in a rookie ship and then it's back to business because they're gone after you lose a ship, any ship.


Nice. I wouldn't have thought of that.


CCP should probably remove that, the fact that killrights can be "completed" by losing a free rookie ship by getting yourself blown up by your alt is a form of carebear-ism, just well.....from "pvp-ers".


Not sure how you could remove it without removing public kill rights entirely.
There is simply no easy way to distinguish between 'an alt' and any other char.

Its simply up to the target to not be stupid with his public offering of kill rights.
I'm not saying that, if misused by the carebear victim, they aren't easily circumvented.

But I know that I'd probably not attempt to fly a freighter (or any relatively weak non-combat ship) if I had 12 or 13 ourstanding private kill rights on me.

But this is the funny bit:

Kill rights were primarily aimed at suicide gankers. (After all, podding in lowsec is difficult without bubbles.)
Kill rights (and sec status penalties) are completely worthless vs -10 characters.
Most suicide gankers are -10 (or at least outlaw), and probably alts.

Only conclusion is that Kill Rights are mostly worthless window dressing. If they have any effect at all, they simply promote the creation of more -10 suicide alts.

Any 'generalist' gankers who aren't already put off with ratting and other time sinks - are likely to come to the obvious conclusion. CCP doesn't want you to 'do it all'. They want you to have a dedicated ganking character. Cue "Power of 2" special.
Hemmo Paskiainen
#33 - 2013-02-09 11:14:09 UTC
CCP wants eve to be moar safer, why else do you think 0.0 is soo supported to be napped up so badly.....

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#34 - 2013-02-09 11:33:39 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Stuff


Just make it so getting blown up in a rookie ship/shuttle doesn't count towards "completion" of the kill mail.

Better yet, imagine if it was a "permanent kill right" kind of thing. Say you blew someone up and they lost a billion or so all together(destroyed fittings+hull cost) when you victimized them. You now have an active kill right on you "until" you lose equivalent amount or hell, even 75% of it "to make it less harsh" OR see below.

This kill right will have a set price, the price will be % based and cannot be set by the victim(to prevent circulation by alts).
This kill right can be bought in some sort of bounty office or something and each buyer only has a set amount of time before this kill right expires and goes back to the open market. (to prevent your alt "holding" the kill right forever)

This kill right will be cleared if the amount paid by multiple people or alts (when purchasing kill right on the market) equals the total loss of your victim.

Thats consequences to live with "for a while" if you are suiciding stuff in hi-sec.


For -10 alts it doesn't change THAT much but it just ensures that you are "actively hunted" by different people for a long time.
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#35 - 2013-02-09 11:41:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Herr Wilkus
Eugene Kerner wrote:
Came in expecting news...left disappointed.
This is so 12 months ago.


OK dumbasses.....

I guess for the slower ganking denizens and forum trolls out there, this isn't 'tech'. You seem to be reading this post as:
IE: "HEY GUYS, -10 Alts are awesome! Nobody EVER thought of this before."

My telling people to roll -10 alts was simply to make a point.

Hey, "CCP is pushing gankers to do this, so go do it!"

Which is funny......because if you go read off the pantheon of 'carebear' complaints about EVE, one of the first is
"NO FAIR! -10 chars don't belong in highsec! Concord should pod outlaws!!!!"

The more interesting question that I'm really after from 'smart guys' like yourself: WHY is CCP promoting their use??

Why would CCP introduce a system with much fanfare to 'control crime'....
yet completely fail to realize that their solutions will have nearly zero effect on the targeted activity in highsec?

I figure there are three possible scenarios....

Are they Liberal Democrats?
-In other words, inept. They fail to realize that their simplistic 'solutions' to things they don't like - only make wind up making those 'problems' worse.

Perhaps its an 'Evil Capitalist' plot?
-Selling window dressing 'controlling crime' for carebears, while behind the back encouraging more accounts for gankers!

DEV Carebear '5 year plan'?
-Push all suicide ganking into the realm of dedicated -10 chars....then ban -10 chars from highsec in one stroke?
Zaraz Zaraz
Zontik Paraphernalia Inc
#36 - 2013-02-09 11:44:32 UTC
Players are confused as to whether CCP would prefer them to be sadists or masochists :(
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#37 - 2013-02-09 11:58:32 UTC  |  Edited by: Eugene Kerner
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Eugene Kerner wrote:
Came in expecting news...left disappointed.
This is so 12 months ago.


OK dumbasses.....

I guess for the slower ganking denizens and forum trolls out there, this isn't 'tech'. You seem to be reading this post as:
IE: "HEY GUYS, -10 Alts are awesome! Nobody EVER thought of this before."

My telling people to roll -10 alts was simply to make a point.

Hey, "CCP is pushing gankers to do this, so go do it!"

Which is funny......because if you go read off the pantheon of 'carebear' complaints about EVE, one of the first is
"NO FAIR! -10 chars don't belong in highsec! Concord should pod outlaws!!!!"

The more interesting question that I'm really after from 'smart guys' like yourself: WHY is CCP promoting their use??

Why would CCP introduce a system with much fanfare to 'control crime'....
yet completely fail to realize that their solutions will have nearly zero effect on the targeted activity in highsec?

I figure there are three possible scenarios....

Are they Liberal Democrats?
-In other words, inept. They fail to realize that their simplistic 'solutions' to things they don't like - only make wind up making those 'problems' worse.

Perhaps its an 'Evil Capitalist' plot?
-Selling window dressing 'controlling crime' for carebears, while behind the back encouraging more accounts for gankers!

DEV Carebear '5 year plan'?
-Push all suicide ganking into the realm of dedicated -10 chars....then ban -10 chars from highsec in one stroke?

U mad? U sure seem Mad!

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#38 - 2013-02-09 12:02:58 UTC
Not really a surprise since the penalties for being -10 are a joke and are easily avoidable.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC
#39 - 2013-02-09 12:02:59 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:

U mad? U sure seem Mad!


Troll successful.
Memo taken.
Whitehound
#40 - 2013-02-09 12:22:06 UTC
Herr Wilkus wrote:
Eugene Kerner wrote:

U mad? U sure seem Mad!


Troll successful.
Memo taken.

You do realize that you are really only pointing out the flaws of a mechanic that is used by a minority and that this might not help your case at all but could as well make it worse for you?

Loss is meaningful. Therefore is the loss of meaning likewise meaningful. It is the source of all trolling.