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Itty V - From 24d down to 33 min?

Author
Kate stark
#61 - 2013-02-08 14:40:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Kate stark
SoOza N'GasZ wrote:
Karl Hobb wrote:
BadAssMcKill wrote:
However I think its silly the Ittty V is so quick to train for now, not cause of others who have trained for it but rather because it pretty much obsoletes most every other T1 industrial

It'll get a rebalance, so nothing to worry about.


yeah in a years time whan 10000 noobs have itty v skills .... reskilling is pathetic it changes the core game and people who trained for months are now majorly ****** off ... another insult in my opinion.


it's a 2 week, maybe 3, skill. hardly months.

great so every one has an itty V, and what? it's still flimsy as **** and you still can't haul anything of great worth.

what people think is going to happen: the world will be full of itty Vs clogging up jita.
what will really happen: the poor week old newbie makes 1 trip in an itty vs 2 trips in another industrial hauling worthless items around for his own use.

is it really that much of an issue?

let's face it, regardless of these changes you'd still have gallente industrial at V because you probably fly an obelisk.

Yay, this account hasn't had its signature banned. or its account, if you're reading this.

Sirinda
Ekchuah's Shrine Comporium
#62 - 2013-02-08 15:10:02 UTC
OP, please inflict your special needs on a community that I am not a part of.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#63 - 2013-02-08 15:26:04 UTC
its sort of dumb to have iterons i-v with the same skill requirements as each model is strictly better in nearly every case than the one before, so you basically just eliminated the point of four of the five

i suppose we'll see what happens

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#64 - 2013-02-08 15:49:24 UTC
it appears a choice between having an itty v as a no-brainer for a little while and releasing all the skill changes at the same time, or releasing an industrials rebalance and the industrial skill change at a different date to the rest of the major skill changes, causing confusion.

skill changes cause enough consternation already without staggering them across multiple releases :P
Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#65 - 2013-02-08 15:49:25 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
its sort of dumb to have iterons i-v with the same skill requirements as each model is strictly better in nearly every case than the one before, so you basically just eliminated the point of four of the five

i suppose we'll see what happens


I'd imagine that they would have varying ship/skill bonuses in the works as to not make the previous models completely useless.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#66 - 2013-02-08 15:52:10 UTC
Pohbis wrote:
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
Infact, Itty Vs are gonna go up demand wise :P
They might, or they might not. Depends what "tiercide" has in store for them.

It didn't really drive demand for the Hulk when they did it to barges/exhumers Blink


Well actually Hulks are still the main producers of high end ore, by a large degree. For some reason nobody wants to admit that. Smile

If the T1 industrial lines were all expanded to 5 I could see a number of ways to specialize them:
Cargo Bay size.
Cargo Bay specialization (specialized to carry perhaps liquids like water or Quafe, or gasses, or living things like livestock or people, or minerals/ore).
Speed/Agility/Warp speed
Defenses
More utility high slots and grid/cpu
Built in equivalent of a warp stab or two like the Venture.

There are actually quite a few variables that can be played around with as long as they actually serve a logical purpose.

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Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#67 - 2013-02-08 15:52:46 UTC
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
its sort of dumb to have iterons i-v with the same skill requirements as each model is strictly better in nearly every case than the one before, so you basically just eliminated the point of four of the five

i suppose we'll see what happens


I'd imagine that they would have varying ship/skill bonuses in the works as to not make the previous models completely useless.

I basically have my doubts there's five interesting sets of bonuses or roles for a single race's t1 haulers

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.

Mallak Azaria
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#68 - 2013-02-08 16:12:53 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
Mallak Azaria wrote:
Weaselior wrote:
its sort of dumb to have iterons i-v with the same skill requirements as each model is strictly better in nearly every case than the one before, so you basically just eliminated the point of four of the five

i suppose we'll see what happens


I'd imagine that they would have varying ship/skill bonuses in the works as to not make the previous models completely useless.

I basically have my doubts there's five interesting sets of bonuses or roles for a single race's t1 haulers


Yeah, I was running ideas through my head & couldn't come up with anything that didn't make 2-3 of the models obsolete in every way. Tiercide with combat ships makes sense, but the haulers are pretty balanced already.

This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.

Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#69 - 2013-02-08 16:24:47 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
Cannibal Kane wrote:
I think people are missing the positives...

17 day old char flying around in an Orca during a war. Yes you get old players doing that to but now there will be a lot more.



I don't think anyone is complaining about a noob being able to fly the Orca. What people are complaining about here is their investment in training time being wasted by CCP. The fact that it took the better part of 2mos to train is time we can never get back. That's real time. Frankly, I would like to reallocate that training time since it means every new toon can now spend almost 2 mos training something else.

How many players out there wouldn't buy SP if it was MTable? SP is valuable given the amount of time is require to fly some of these ships, including the Orca. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect CCP to compensate players with SP, even discounted. I've got 2 toons that fly the Orca. That's a lot of invested time that could have been spent training other things. I would like to be compensated.


I suppose they could do it if you were willing to have your skills reduced to the minimum level. Smile

This is why they don't reimburse skills that still give advantages in game.

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Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#70 - 2013-02-08 16:26:45 UTC
And I have a nice well researched iteron V BPO.

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Frozen fanfiction

stoicfaux
#71 - 2013-02-08 16:36:50 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
And I have a nice well researched iteron V BPO.

Yes, but... if/when tiericide changes the 5 Iterons to just 2 or 3 role based Iterons, your BPO may be changed to an "unpopular/useless" version of the tiericide'd Iterons.

Twisted


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.

Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#72 - 2013-02-08 17:55:08 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
I basically have my doubts there's five interesting sets of bonuses or roles for a single race's t1 haulers


3 seems fairly easy - just give each of the three a niche of either great agility, great cargo capacity, or great buffer.

For the Gallente line, what might work for the remaining two is above average ability in two of the above and really terrible ability in the remaining one.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#73 - 2013-02-08 17:56:29 UTC
stoicfaux wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
And I have a nice well researched iteron V BPO.

Yes, but... if/when tiericide changes the 5 Iterons to just 2 or 3 role based Iterons, your BPO may be changed to an "unpopular/useless" version of the tiericide'd Iterons.


Alternatively, once tiericide hits the Iteron V won't be the 'best at everything' option.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.

Mire Stoude
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#74 - 2013-02-08 18:00:22 UTC
My BPO's for Itty 1-4 are now worthless? (j/k, I don't have any BPOs)
Grimpak
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#75 - 2013-02-08 18:02:52 UTC
still say you guys are worrying about nothing here.

now I'll start a more worthwhile discussion: in a pizza you prefer green, red or yellow bell peppers?

I prefer the whole triadCool

[img]http://eve-files.com/sig/grimpak[/img]

[quote]The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.[/quote] ain't that right

Nexus Day
Lustrevik Trade and Travel Bureau
#76 - 2013-02-08 21:11:16 UTC
I don't think the OP is whining about a noob piloting the same vessel he is (I hope he/she is not). I think the gripe is with the SP loss due to the opportunity cost of what they trained.

I am almost finished with my Orca training, 6 more days. When I get it I do not plan to use it much for mining. So come Tuesday I will have an opportunity loss associated with training Mining Barge V.

But let's look at the noob piloting a capital industrial in 17 days. For one CCP has destroyed a barrier of entry to the vessel. This barrier not only has an effect on mining boost, but it will have a larger effect on transports. Be prepared to see them everywhere.

On the positive side, I do hope when people realize that CCP is basically giving away a mobile space station there will be more people out exploring the content instead of hanging in stations.
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
#77 - 2013-02-08 21:27:26 UTC
Nexus Day wrote:
I am almost finished with my Orca training, 6 more days. When I get it I do not plan to use it much for mining. So come Tuesday I will have an opportunity loss associated with training Mining Barge V.

CCP isn't taking away your skill, so no problem there.

And yes, I waited this out on my alt as well, but I honestly have no problem with the changes nor do I see this as "OMG THEY DEVALUED MY TIME" or something.

A professional astro-bastard was not available so they sent me.

Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#78 - 2013-02-08 21:35:30 UTC
Mire Stoude wrote:
My BPO's for Itty 1-4 are now worthless? (j/k, I don't have any BPOs)

Considering they basically were worthless beforehand since everyone who knew anything just trained for Itty V anyway.
And so the newbie can get an 'Itty V'. It still won't haul the same cargo or fly as fast as your Itty V, by 20% infact.
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#79 - 2013-02-08 22:55:05 UTC
Kate stark wrote:
Sergeant Acht Scultz wrote:
Why do I have the feeling my clone cost is going to skyrocket when those skill changes hit?


because you understood the very simple system the first time it was announced, and trained destroyers and BCs to V, all racial frigs to IV, and all racial cruisers to III?

as did every other player with more than two brain cells and was interested in free sp/saving themselves some time at some point in the future?



Almost wrong, I already had some but my Eve goal was to be able to fly everything sub cap, therefore I do have all races frigate at 5, destroyers 5, all cruisers 5, battlecruisers 5 and all T2 version from those at least at 3 or 4, BS in between 3 and 5 (all BS 5 is a fckin pain in the ass)

So, while I'm very happy this change profits to all newbies and lower skill players, and believe me I really do like this, I can't say to my self I can't fly anymore T2 frigates/destroyers with my main or the clone cost will always be higher enough I can buy whatever battlecruiser hull with that isk.

I'm not complaining I loose my pods often (null fights, and specially large fights always end with "squish" pod sound), but I do complain the higher SP i get for my loyalty as customer, the more I'm penalized for doing so and feel I'm pushed to not see any further than T1 BC training, which is complete non sense from my point of view.
Please notice I'm not asking to pay less than news or whatever Sp amount someone might have, I'm only arguing this POD cost is opposed to the idea of training and move forward to higher hulls and combat types.

Some might actually argue against and spit with usual rabble, but this is clearly not good on the long term because not everyone has patience to wait for the lower SP alt able to properly fly something, or willing to spend time farming rabbits to buy a lower SP character. It's not fun, brings nothing valuable as gaming experience but rather negative on top of the already far many negative points just by login to Eve server.

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne

Kathern Aurilen
#80 - 2013-02-08 22:55:34 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
reckon the new itty v's going to move like a cow

and a dead cow at that

e: although you do wonder how you can make five different industrials perform five different roles. going from 'light with smallish cargo space' to 'slow with tons of cargo' over five ships will mean only two are used - the smallest and the biggest. there'll be a 'tanky' one, no doubt about that, but that leaves two more ships to find roles for?
I rather the Itty 4 than the 5... it looks like a telephone poll in space...

I'm afraid to turn the 5 in space... might knock someone's windshield out....if only!!!

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