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C4 Anoms
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Sergant Frank Drebin
State War Academy
Caldari State
#1 - 2011-10-23 21:51:49 UTC
So im thinking of doing c4 anoms with a few charactors - im wondering what would be a tank to work for, is 900-1k dps tank enough for sleepers
Hathrul
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#2 - 2011-10-23 23:29:20 UTC
about 1200dps tank id say. they neut like hell though so it has to be passive
veshna wildsun
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#3 - 2011-10-24 00:58:52 UTC
3 spider tanked Tengus can do them well using a large meta level 4 shield transfer. Having one with a good target painter helps a lot too.
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2011-10-24 16:14:45 UTC
I ran them with a basilisk/nightmare pair, basi had about a 800dps local tank with boosts, and could toss a 1600dps RR tank onto the nightmare, and could permarun everything with 2 incoming transfers. Nightmare was 900dps tach fit, 2 cap transfers in last 2 highs to buddy with the basi. Sites were very slow with just one of these nightmares, but adding up additional nightmares (like 2-3 nightmares) made sites a breeze. Tach's required because most rats liked hanging out round then 60km mark.

-Arazel
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#5 - 2011-10-24 23:05:12 UTC
An uber-tanked tengu can cope with the DPS provided it doesn't get neuted. It can sort of kill them but the elite BSs take forever. Tengu was great for taking out the smaller sleepers.

A very well tanked rattlesnake won't last forever but it takes a longtime to wear its buffer down ... and forever for CAP to regenerate if it gets neuted to oblivion. The snake was good for laying down DPS in the big guys, and not too bad for the smaller guys. If you're not careful with your drones a snake may not be that great an option for you ... sleepers do target drones and can quickly destroy them if you're not careful. Some sites are more drone-hostile than other ... the worst probably being those with frigate-heavy spawns.

So, even the toughest C4s, are achievable in not-too-bad time with a two-ship fleet along those lines. For the mag site with the four elite BSs (evil beggars) we would kite that last spawn to avoid being neuted, but otherwise this two-ship setup worked pretty well without any remote repping.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2011-10-25 01:16:29 UTC
Substantia Nigra wrote:
An uber-tanked tengu can cope with the DPS provided it doesn't get neuted. It can sort of kill them but the elite BSs take forever. Tengu was great for taking out the smaller sleepers.

A very well tanked rattlesnake won't last forever but it takes a longtime to wear its buffer down ... and forever for CAP to regenerate if it gets neuted to oblivion. The snake was good for laying down DPS in the big guys, and not too bad for the smaller guys. If you're not careful with your drones a snake may not be that great an option for you ... sleepers do target drones and can quickly destroy them if you're not careful. Some sites are more drone-hostile than other ... the worst probably being those with frigate-heavy spawns.

So, even the toughest C4s, are achievable in not-too-bad time with a two-ship fleet along those lines. For the mag site with the four elite BSs (evil beggars) we would kite that last spawn to avoid being neuted, but otherwise this two-ship setup worked pretty well without any remote repping.


So a dual tengu snake team would work fairly well then?
grumpyguts1
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#7 - 2011-10-25 01:29:42 UTC
We do this in 4 RR tengu's. I am not sure I would try it in anything less than 3 as sometimes the sleepers will do dps damage on 1 and neut another. But I guess if you paid close attention and pulsed the RR you could do it.
Substantia Nigra
Polaris Rising
Goonswarm Federation
#8 - 2011-10-25 01:50:10 UTC
Derath Ellecon wrote:
So a dual tengu snake team would work fairly well then?



Snake / tengu pair can clear everything that spawns in a C4. Obviously larger fleets will clear them way easier and quicker, but this is all we could muster so it's what we used. It can be done but you need to be very careful and get yourself rapidly familiar with how / where they spawn, and there are quicker safer approaches if you have more numbers available.

Having said that we never lost a ship to a C4 sig / anom, and in semi-solo clearing so many we made a small fortune before 'retiring' back to hisec / nullsec mission-running.

We did not remote-rep or cap-transfer, partly because we've not a lot of experience with it, partly because if we were careful we did not need it, and partly because all hell breaks loose when rep-chain falters. We did usually employ a very-high-skilled and maximally-equipped fleet booster running 7 gang-assist modules including (of course) the three siege warfare ones - that can be provided on a minimised window while the other two do their stuff.

I guess I am almost a 'vet' by now. Hopefully not too bitter and managing to help more than I hinder. I build and sell many things, including large collections of bookmarks.
LacLongQuan
Doomheim
#9 - 2011-10-25 02:07:48 UTC
Arazel Chainfire wrote:
I ran them with a basilisk/nightmare pair, basi had about a 800dps local tank with boosts, and could toss a 1600dps RR tank onto the nightmare, and could permarun everything with 2 incoming transfers. Nightmare was 900dps tach fit, 2 cap transfers in last 2 highs to buddy with the basi. Sites were very slow with just one of these nightmares, but adding up additional nightmares (like 2-3 nightmares) made sites a breeze. Tach's required because most rats liked hanging out round then 60km mark.

-Arazel

^this.

I use the same set up + a mach. 10' for rax, sanctum, 15' for command.
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2011-10-26 03:20:18 UTC
My peeps just do RR Tengus. But, I've been mulling over mixed fleets with logis. Unfortunately, you give up a lot of DPS for a logi pilot. Generally, you need 2 logis, especially in the harder sites. However, logis allow the DPS ships to focus more on DPS.

So, if you have a 4 man RR Tengu fleet with 520DPS each, that's 2080DPS total for the fleet.

If you have 4 pilots 2 in Basi, 2 in Nightmare, that's 1800DPS. (Just to use the given example of the Nightmare)

As you can see in this example logis don't benefit you. However, in larger fleets it would absolutely be advantageous to have logis while focusing the rest of the ships on DPS.

The RR Tengu fleet does give you a few more advantages. 1) Low mass, so there's more travel that can take place through the holes. 2) It has the same DPS at 1KM that it does at +90KM. 3) No tracking issues. 4) Missile launchers don't need cap. So, I think even though you can have a higher DPS fleet with logis and utilizing BS's and such, the overall efficacy and lack of negating issues with missiles in a Tengu fleet probably make it more advantageous. Honestly, I don't see the DPS advantage in a sizable fleet with logi overcoming the overall limitations of higher DPS weaponry. At least, not enough to make me want to change from a RR Tengu fleet. 3 of us are doing Barracks in just under 12 minutes. That's not too shabby.

Don't ban me, bro!
LacLongQuan
Doomheim
#11 - 2011-10-26 04:50:55 UTC
if you're doing C4 and need 2 logis, you're doing it wrong. even for toughest site with 4 sleeper BS or 3 BS, 2 cruiser, 1 logis is more than enough.