Player Features and Ideas Discussion

I have no problem with more T2 BCs. I've commented on a few threads about such. I even suggested an exploration one in one of those threads. I said I have a problem with a 21 slot BC with 5 utility slots.
Given that it as been made so clear over the last 3 or 4 months that BCs will all have 17 slots (16 on drone boats) you seem to think its a great idea to add in another 4. You don't think that would been seen as a little op? You know, given that barely any ships have 8 midslots, especially with 8 high slots as well. I kind of think theres a reason or that.

And as for my threads, read them before you condemn them, I'm far from.the only one that felt they made sense. If you feel they don't, then by all means comment on them explaining why and offering constructive criticism.
But please make sure it makes more sense than your last post:

That right there makes you an idiot.
EvE is all about choices, you pick how you go forward, you can specialise or you can generalise. If you want to do a bit of everything, you wont do it very well. That's the compromise.

As for referencing BCs using a single link, that's history in a few days. As is them giving up weapons as they will all have utility slots for at least 1 link.

I also offered up the T3s as a pure solo option, not just "Use an alt." I would suggest you find a friend to do your exploration as an alternative to using an alt, but I imagine you may find that a tad more difficult than the rest of us.

Oh yeah, I agree entirely. I love that aspect of EVE.

If anything the T2 Exploration Battlecruisers I'm suggesting would be the epitome of that very concept. While they would have a lot of slots and space for a lot of things, and they would appear to be able to do anything and everything they really wouldn't be able to. Really all the ships are is a basic Battlecruiser and alt Destroyer in one.

If I'm doing exploration at the moment, the best and easiest way to do it is fit a Myrmidon or Drake to do the main work with a standard Gank/Tank fit with a Cloak, accompanied with an Algos set up with a Cloak, a Probe Launcher, a Salvager, 2 Tractor Beams, 1 Laser Turret (no ammo), an Afterburner, a Codebreaker, and an Analyzer, with a full flight of Salvage Drones if I want to Salvage extra fast, and a full flight of Hornet II's (I prefer Hornets).

This current method requires you to either have two damn computers or a computer than can comfortably dual box preferably with a dual monitor display, which isn't really in keeping with CCP's desire to keep EVE accessible to lower end computers. Something I'm thankful for as I'm currently using two low end laptops that would struggle to run most modern games, unfortunately I still have to use both simultaneously for my set up and it's extremely inconvenient.

The ships I suggest still mean you're having to decide what you want to do. You still have to balance tank with gank. With the reduction in CPU and Powergrid they would actually struggle to match the Drake or Myrmidon in tank/gank realistically which means for straight on PVP while it would be theoretically possible to make some very powerful ships out of these T2 designs, it would require exceptional skills, and very fine fits, and would likely cost a small fortune. You're far better off spending 100-150 Million ISK on a decent T2 or even part Faction fit Drake or Myrmidon than you would be spending 500-600 Million ISK, potentially more, on these new Exploration Ships with what would need to be a Faction fit to account for the CPU/Powergrid issues.

There would still be plenty of roles that these ships couldn't do, and would be poorly suited for. They could not replace frigates any more than any Battlecruiser/Command Ship so far can. They'd be no more useful to mining or industry than any other escort ship, less in fact, as a 500 Million ship (including fit/rigs), is a rather juicy target itself. It'd certainly not be used in factional warfare, where disposable is the order of the day, while Myrmidons, Drakes, Harbingers and Hurricanes see frequent use, (less so for the latter two granted) because they're far more disposable. They would be no better for PvE mission running than the standard PvE fit Drake, which is already king of PvE at 1/5 of the cost. They'd be no more useful in a large fleet battle than a standard Battlecruiser and a liability in cost for alliances. Really these ships would excel in only one area. It would be good at solo PvP, but not significantly better than a standard Battlecruiser which means it could hold it's own in areas where single one on one, or small gang combat is more common, such as Wormhole space, and it would mean that someone scanning down your Salvage Boat would be less of an issue. It would be particularly good at quickly entering exploration sites, handily taking out the rats, collecting the loot and activating/accessing all the necessary areas. It's high slots would allow it to cloak, scan, salvage etc. entirely independently, while it's medium slots would allow it to access all the sites it may find. This is about as far as it goes.

Really, I would consider these ships "end-game" material for many people. To master this ship would be an end-game goal for explorers in much the same way that a Capital ship may be an end-game goal, mastering a Command Ship or T3 Cruiser may be an end-game goal for a fleet commander in factional warfare, or perhaps mastering a Marauder or Faction Battleship may be an end-game goal for some (particularly PvE mission runners). These are the ships that should feel as though they're some of the most powerful ships in EVE because they would be.

Anyway. That's my take on why I'd like to see these ships. Plus, it would be really nice to have a good excuse to use these hulls. The Harbinger, Drake and Myrmidon are amongst my favourite ships in EVE, (I don't fly Minmatar ships) so to see them having a T2 Variant that's also suited for my favourite career in EVE. That would be so perfect for me. Perhaps it is slightly wish fulfilment on my part, but I don't feel they act against the need to choose in EVE. If anything the heavily restrictive CPU/Powergrid yet high number of slots would make this even more apparent.

Why does it need extra midslots? If you're not fitting a web or scram, the standard midslots on a battlecruiser are plenty. Give it **** sensor strength like the marauders and they won't get used much outside of their areas. You don't see Marauders replacing all T1 battleships in low/null, and neither would this ship replace battlecruisers. The cost isn't worth the boost in effectiveness.

also, this ship by no means needs to be a T2 battlecruiser. It could be a T2 cruiser, or a new ship line specifically designed for this (like ORE ships are designed for mining) you could even do it with a T3 if you added the right subsystems.

Just train an Ishtar and be happy.

Honestly, it can (it may be the only one) fit every exploration module you need, and still have enough gank and tank to do most of the combat sites you may run into.

It essentially already meets most of the things you are trying to do with these T2 battlecruisers. It isn't THAT hard to train into, even if you have to cross train.

And just as Gizznitt has already pointed out, even trying to gimp your proposed BC's they will get used for other purposes.

His helios kills are impressive. But equally impressive have been the battle ventures. And they have total crap CPU/PG and slots.

And no, you are flat out wrong when you say currently you HAVE to dual box exploration. I solo in an ishtar without any issues.

OK, fair enough. Good point.

Your previous post, and the flaming of people on this forum is excessive. Not everyone is familiar with all aspects of EVE, all ships and all possible fits. If you have reasons for why my idea wouldn't work by all means tell me but can we at least discuss it in a civil manner is what I'm getting at.

So you're saying that with EWAR using mid slots, and with 8 mid slots the potential alternative methods of PvP would make these ships potentially very broken. That's a reasonable argument and something I'd not properly considered. I honestly don't use much in the way of EWAR as my mid slots usually go towards things like Analyzers, Codebreakers, Shield Tank, Afterburner/MWD, Capacitor Batteries/Boosters, Drone Boosts, Scrams & Webs... there's a lot the mid slots are used for so I've not experimented to much with EWAR. That said, looking at ECM, Sensor Dampeners, Tracking Disruptors etc. they all have fairly high CPU requirements. Usually around the 35-50 mark, sometimes more. With such tight CPU requirements on my suggested ship, you'd almost certainly have to choose whether you wanted EWAR, Tank or Gank. You could either poor everything into one area, or have two areas reasonably covered, but not all three. Missiles, Turrets, Shield Tanks and Weapon Upgrade systems all use large amounts of CPU.

Really the way the CPU and Powergrid would limit everything, those extra slots would be vestigial at best. The only things that would reasonably fit in them would be Analyzers and Codebreakers, which if anything is kind of the point. What I don't understand is why a ship that can Cloak, Salvage, Gank, Tank, Analyze and Codebreak is especially broken or overpowered. It's not the best at any of those things, and it's certainly not especially suited to PvP which is the main concern when creating a ship like this. You'd still probably be better off using two ships and it would likely be cheaper too, just as you're probably better of using a standard Battleship and a Noctis to do Level 4 missions rather than a Marauder, but people still use Marauders.

I'm still not convinced that these ships would be so easily abused because the limiting factor of the reduced CPU would block most broken super-fits from being viable but if you could explain in more detail, perhaps you're right.

I'm not arguing that you can't do it already. You can. I've managed entirely capable all-in-one fits for multiple ships. I especially like my Pilgrim fit. There's also a decent Tengu fit that I've tried, and shockingly I've even managed to get a Nemesis fit to work as an all-in-one explorer ship with a non-traditional fit.
If you're not too bothered about being ultra-manoeuvrable when cloaked there are some decent all-in-one fits that work for the Myrmidon, Drake, Harbinger, Ferox, Vexor, Arbitrator, Gila and Phantasm. Generally speaking if you're not flying Amarr or Gallente you'll struggle (the Ferox and Drake fits are generally the poorest in my experience considering they're battlecruisers).

Like I say, this isn't a role that's completely unfilled. It's just a role I feel would benefit from having a decent end-game specialist ship that's all.

Fitting Requirements (PG, CPU):
T2 Salvager: 1, 25
T2 Analyzer, 1, 25
T2 Codebreaker, 25
T2 Tractor Beam, 25
Prototype Cloak: 30
Improved Cloak, 60

Meta 4 EWAR modules (which are as good or better than T2)
Scram: 1, 28
Web: 1, 22
Paint: 1, 16
TD: 1, 32

These are all very close in fitting requirements..

Furthermore, while you mentioned that ships are often limited by their fitting, different weapon systems are limited in different manners... Missile boats are typically CPU limited, while Hybrids are more typically PG limited... There isn't a one-size-fits-all limiting agent... Additionally, there are many tweaks people can use to "free up some room".... Imagine we're looking at your drake model... .dropping one BCU in the lowslot for a CPU2 and suddenly there's 12% less damage (but still a plenty adequate amount) and you gain the CPU needed to fit all the EWAR you desire...

Trust me, balancing a ship with lots of utility mods so it's effective at PvE but NOT effective at PvP is pretty awkward and difficult to do... Even Marauders are competent at PvP (look at the AT setups).... most people don't use them for that, because of price, the sensor strength weakness, and the superiority of Pirate BS's...

P.S. 18 or more slots is BS sized....

They have modified the Tech1 frigates nicely to accomplish these tasks. With the addition of salvaging drones and the added drone bays on those frigates marked for exploration, you do not need to waste a high-slot. Or, you can use a salvage module and then fit combat drones in the new bays.

You can also make your own ad-hoc destroyers, cruiser, battlecruiser, and battleship forms of exploration vessels. They might not be as effective as the frigates with native bonuses. But with rigs and skills and proper probes they get darn close.

Also, I was very quick to learn which sites would not be doable in my exploration frigs (I used a Buzzard) and would then despawn if I warped into them and out to get a combat ship. I am strictly referring to higher difficulty sites. I have personally tackled 3/10 sites in a properly fit Probe with the new updates.

I hear you can almost completely tailor a Tech3 cruiser to be very efficient at these tasks, as well.

Now, I am all about new and wonderful ships. So I am not against the idea of [completely] new ships being introduced. I just thought I would suggest some creative ship fitting on your part.

Thank you.

An idea maybe no one has considered:

Already, we have one ship that has the benefits of having a module already built into the hull: the Venture. The Venture mining frigate has the equivalent of warp stabalizers built in without needing to fill a slot.

For such an exploration ship, you could have a hull that includes analyzers and codebreakers built in without adding a slot. That way, the ship could be used for what it is supposed to be used for without stepping on the toes of other ship's roles.

That's fine and all. I have this nagging habit of trying to stick to the OP topic as much as possible. To quote the OP directly



Which unfortunately is flat out wrong. There are ships that can be fit to do all of this. No there aren't ships from all races that can do this, but that's part of EVE. As a pure Gallente Pilot I'd like to have a ship that is designed for capless turrets, or a weapon system that can hit from 0-90km in a cruiser sized hull that isn't affected by tracking. But those are more the areas for minmatar and Caldari.