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[Proposal] Cloaking , Scanning and Finding those bastards
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Krax As
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2013-02-08 15:51:55 UTC
cloakers keep the way they are, they are awesome.


BUT

they are somewhat scannable. something like a "disturbance in subspace frequencies " or something will be scannable and can be warped to. but those things are rather something like a new grid (which will be made anyways when the cloaker is in his safe spot).

the peeps going to those grids have another way now to really get close to the cloaker:

-space depth charges

basically bombs / charges that can be shot in general directions with a range of like 30k and will explode with a radios of like 750m, 1,5k or 3k (small / medium / large charges)

so theres a way to get rid of afk cloakers. online cloak pilots will always be able to just warp away .. as the whole scanning process is still too slow to detect them they will always be one step ahead. but the afk cloaking stops, you have to actively search form them, maybe even work together to be more effective (one scans, a couple of others bomb, some others stay alert for sniping duties)
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#2 - 2013-02-08 16:15:24 UTC
So... nerf cloaks

Ok, wheres the nerf that brings local down to go along with it - since you can't nerf one side of the coin and not the other

And what about wormhole space?
Krax As
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2013-02-08 16:18:33 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
So... nerf cloaks

Ok, wheres the nerf that brings local down to go along with it - since you can't nerf one side of the coin and not the other

And what about wormhole space?



would work the same way as it merely is an added feature to scanning plus a new module / charge.

cloaking in and by itself is not touched in any way.

you can still hide away.. but have to be active. not just log in, and go ut with your friends and expect to still be there when you get home drunk.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#4 - 2013-02-08 16:25:33 UTC
Krax As wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
So... nerf cloaks

Ok, wheres the nerf that brings local down to go along with it - since you can't nerf one side of the coin and not the other

And what about wormhole space?



would work the same way as it merely is an added feature to scanning plus a new module / charge.

cloaking in and by itself is not touched in any way.

you can still hide away.. but have to be active. not just log in, and go ut with your friends and expect to still be there when you get home drunk.



So on top of the instant, infallible local intel you also want the ability to find and kill cloaked ships.

Sorry no, that's imbalanced. And it UTTERLY destroys wormhole space mechanics.

Highsec is that way bro --->
Krax As
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2013-02-08 16:32:14 UTC
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
Krax As wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
So... nerf cloaks

Ok, wheres the nerf that brings local down to go along with it - since you can't nerf one side of the coin and not the other

And what about wormhole space?



would work the same way as it merely is an added feature to scanning plus a new module / charge.

cloaking in and by itself is not touched in any way.

you can still hide away.. but have to be active. not just log in, and go ut with your friends and expect to still be there when you get home drunk.



So on top of the instant, infallible local intel you also want the ability to find and kill cloaked ships.

Sorry no, that's imbalanced. And it UTTERLY destroys wormhole space mechanics.

Highsec is that way bro --->


i dont know what game you are playing and what you are reading: i want a cloakign mechanic that requires cloaky pilots to be actively at their machines palying the game. i disdain any afk activity that has direct or indirect effect on the game and / or activities of other players.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#6 - 2013-02-08 16:44:25 UTC

1.) We don't need your depth charges when we have smart bombs with bigger explosion radius's,and even stealth bomber boms with a 15 km explosion radius...

2.) While I agree that a specialty set of probes with long scan cycles (60s) and would probably be optimal for scanning down a cloaked vessel in a manner that doesn't disrupt their primary role, you completely missed the point of Gunslinger42's post...

A.) If you can scan down cloaked ships, you can basically purge a WH of hostiles.... or at least purge the system of online and active hostiles, which breaks one of the fundamental principles of a WH.... In a WH you NEVER KNOW you are alone... so there is an ever-present danger. With your suggestion, a pilot can always just scan a WH and determine if any "unknown players" are in system... You might as well add a local count to the delayed chat window if your going to implement this!!!

B.) Local Chat is an infallible, omniscient intel tool that instantly provides you with information on everyone in system... This near perfect intel allows you to determine how safe a nullsec system is by identifying potentially hostile pilots in system.... With the ability to purge those pilots (even if they are cloaked) from a system, we end up with 100% safe nullsec systems... This might sound like a wet-dream to the average nullbear, but it is NOT how nullsec should function... Living in nullsec is not about removing all dangers from your system, it's about adapting to the dangers and living with them... People wouldn't use AFK cloaky alts parked in your system all day if the intel system was nerfed enough to allow a roaming gang to actually catch more than afk pilots... AFK cloakers are the ONLY means by which to undermine "local as an intel tool", yet you currently have many options to deal with afk cloakers, if:
-- You didn't tempt them with blingy targets...
-- You adapted to them, and became difficult targets for the afk cloaker to attack...
-- You adapted to them, and operated in a system without an afk cloaker...

Mag's
Azn Empire
#7 - 2013-02-08 17:11:39 UTC
Krax As wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:


So on top of the instant, infallible local intel you also want the ability to find and kill cloaked ships.

Sorry no, that's imbalanced. And it UTTERLY destroys wormhole space mechanics.

Highsec is that way bro --->


i dont know what game you are playing and what you are reading: i want a cloakign mechanic that requires cloaky pilots to be actively at their machines palying the game. i disdain any afk activity that has direct or indirect effect on the game and / or activities of other players.


Whilst pilots are cloaked and AFK, what mechanic are they using to interact with you?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Lykouleon
Noble Sentiments
Second Empire.
#8 - 2013-02-08 19:37:56 UTC
Oh look, its that time of the week for the "wah afk cloakers" thread.

Lykouleon > CYNO ME CLOSER so I can hit them with my sword
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2013-02-08 20:30:49 UTC
Mag's wrote:
Krax As wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:


So on top of the instant, infallible local intel you also want the ability to find and kill cloaked ships.

Sorry no, that's imbalanced. And it UTTERLY destroys wormhole space mechanics.

Highsec is that way bro --->


i dont know what game you are playing and what you are reading: i want a cloakign mechanic that requires cloaky pilots to be actively at their machines palying the game. i disdain any afk activity that has direct or indirect effect on the game and / or activities of other players.


Whilst pilots are cloaked and AFK, what mechanic are they using to interact with you?


Psychology.
Though I am not sure that counts as a game mechanic. P

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Krax As
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2013-02-08 20:37:12 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Krax As wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:


So on top of the instant, infallible local intel you also want the ability to find and kill cloaked ships.

Sorry no, that's imbalanced. And it UTTERLY destroys wormhole space mechanics.

Highsec is that way bro --->


i dont know what game you are playing and what you are reading: i want a cloakign mechanic that requires cloaky pilots to be actively at their machines palying the game. i disdain any afk activity that has direct or indirect effect on the game and / or activities of other players.


Whilst pilots are cloaked and AFK, what mechanic are they using to interact with you?


Psychology.
Though I am not sure that counts as a game mechanic. P


i see it almost the same as afk mining
but thats just me i guess. seems the big shots love it
Krax As
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2013-02-08 20:56:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Krax As
also what i dont understand: i am not proposing a ever hit weapon and surefy way to kill cloakies. its not. its a way to find afk cloakers, thats all. active pilots can and will get away very easily



so you think players not actually sitting in front of their pc´s but are something the game needs and that it should be a viable tactic ..

props to that
why not make eve playable while surfing forums and posting..

strange
Mag's
Azn Empire
#12 - 2013-02-08 20:58:20 UTC
Krax As wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
Mag's wrote:
Whilst pilots are cloaked and AFK, what mechanic are they using to interact with you?


Psychology.
Though I am not sure that counts as a game mechanic. P


i see it almost the same as afk mining
but thats just me i guess. seems the big shots love it
You didn't answer the question.
I'll clarify it.

Whilst they are cloaked and AFK, what game mechanic are they using to interact with you?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#13 - 2013-02-08 21:00:49 UTC
Krax As wrote:
also what i dont understand: i am not proposing a ever hit weapon and surefy way to kill cloakies. its not. its a way to find afk cloakers, thats all.

so you think playres not actually sitting in front of their pc´s but are something the game needs and that it should be a viable tactic ..

props to that
why not make eve playable while surfing forums and posting..

strange


No.... you misunderstand the intentions here.....

We think there is a problem with local... and the workaround is to park an afk cloaker in a system so they are always present, thereby diminishing the value of the local intel and allowing for "sneak attacks" (of a form)...

Your idea is a tool to eliminate the work around without addressing the fundamental reason people are employing it...

Krax As
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2013-02-08 21:09:34 UTC
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:
Krax As wrote:
also what i dont understand: i am not proposing a ever hit weapon and surefy way to kill cloakies. its not. its a way to find afk cloakers, thats all.

so you think playres not actually sitting in front of their pc´s but are something the game needs and that it should be a viable tactic ..

props to that
why not make eve playable while surfing forums and posting..

strange


No.... you misunderstand the intentions here.....

We think there is a problem with local... and the workaround is to park an afk cloaker in a system so they are always present, thereby diminishing the value of the local intel and allowing for "sneak attacks" (of a form)...

Your idea is a tool to eliminate the work around without addressing the fundamental reason people are employing it...




see and thats why i though not about and i do understand and see your point. still, afk pilots are just apain in the arse and i dont like poeple "playing a game" being afk
Mag's
Azn Empire
#15 - 2013-02-08 21:13:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Mag's
Krax As wrote:
Gizznitt Malikite wrote:


No.... you misunderstand the intentions here.....

We think there is a problem with local... and the workaround is to park an afk cloaker in a system so they are always present, thereby diminishing the value of the local intel and allowing for "sneak attacks" (of a form)...

Your idea is a tool to eliminate the work around without addressing the fundamental reason people are employing it...




see and thats why i though not about and i do understand and see your point. still, afk pilots are just apain in the arse and i dont like poeple "playing a game" being afk

Many of the games core functions, operate whilst we are AFK. But how someone chooses to play, is not your concern. They pay and play how they wish, as long as it's within the EULA.

This situation is about cause and effect. Cloaks only show an effect.
The fact you can cause the same psychological effects without a cloak, should tell you you're barking up the wrong tree.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2013-02-09 05:45:58 UTC
Any attempt to address cloaking as a mechanic must meet 3 pre-reqs:

1) Address the omnipotence of local as an intel tool, and the extreme advantages it gives to the defender.
2) address stations and their perfect 24/7 protection for the defenders anytime #1 provides them with intel on hostiles
3) in no way, shape, or form, ruins my wormholes. i mean it, you break our holes, well come after you, and you dont want a bunch of angry wormholers having a vendetta against your alliance, doesnt end well.
Intar Medris
KarmaFleet University
#17 - 2013-02-09 08:57:28 UTC
Ohh look another I suck at EVE and want you to nerf something because I suck thread.

I try to be nice and mind my business just shooting lasers at rocks. There is just way too many asshats in New Eden for that to happen.
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
#18 - 2013-02-11 11:05:31 UTC  |  Edited by: Jint Hikaru
Krax As wrote:
TheGunslinger42 wrote:
So... nerf cloaks

Ok, wheres the nerf that brings local down to go along with it - since you can't nerf one side of the coin and not the other

And what about wormhole space?



would work the same way as it merely is an added feature to scanning plus a new module / charge.

cloaking in and by itself is not touched in any way.

you can still hide away.. but have to be active. not just log in, and go ut with your friends and expect to still be there when you get home drunk.



You have completely broken Wormhole space.... anyone in WH space can just fire off one of your probes and be instantly told how many cloaked vessels are in the system. Congratulations, WH space is now BROKEN.


Krax As wrote:
see and thats why i though not about and i do understand and see your point. still, afk pilots are just apain in the arse and i dont like poeple "playing a game" being afk

What about people who sit in stations or POS AFK, they are showing up on local but not at the computer and are un-catchable (appart from POS bashing, I'll give you that).
Why is this gameplay OK with you, but not cloakers......

How about if your 'make cloakes findable' button also punts all players out of the station/POS Shiels/Outpost at the same time. If they are not AFK then they can simple dock back up?????

Once again we see another zerosec nullbear trying to get game mechanics changed to make his Zero Security space safer.

Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move.
Jack Carrigan
Order of the Shadow
#19 - 2013-02-12 13:51:26 UTC
[/quote]Whilst pilots are cloaked and AFK, what mechanic are they using to interact with you? [/quote]

This.

Also, if you can't clearly see that cloaking is working as intended, you can refer to the following steps:

- Give all of your ISK/stuff to me
- Locate the Biomass Queue over Arrow

HTFU.

I am the One who exists in Shadow. I am the Devil your parents warned you about.

||CEO: Order of the Shadow||Executor: The Revenant Order||Creator: Bowhead||
Derath Ellecon
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2013-02-12 17:49:20 UTC
Would completely ruin WH space at the same time.

no thanks.
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