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So CCP wants to change how clone cost works what next?
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Estella Osoka
Cranky Bitches Who PMS
#41 - 2013-02-08 17:13:38 UTC
A cap on clone cost, times a percentage of how much all the implants in the clone cost on the market?
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#42 - 2013-02-08 17:16:06 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I like the idea of keeping the clone costs the same but turning it into an insurance for a period of 90 days, maybe longer or shorter as necessary, so your skillpoints are insured during that period no matter how many pods you lose. The only way to lose insurance would be to either let it expire or buy insurance for a higher SP level. That would actually increase the isk sink for those who don't lose clones very often, while at the same time making things a lot easier on those who lose clones frequently.


I wouldn't mind this. Even though it would cost myself more in the long run.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#43 - 2013-02-08 17:18:46 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I like the idea of keeping the clone costs the same but turning it into an insurance for a period of 90 days, maybe longer or shorter as necessary, so your skillpoints are insured during that period no matter how many pods you lose. The only way to lose insurance would be to either let it expire or buy insurance for a higher SP level. That would actually increase the isk sink for those who don't lose clones very often, while at the same time making things a lot easier on those who lose clones frequently.


I wouldn't mind this. Even though it would cost myself more in the long run.

Well see, the benefit of such a scheme is that it doesn't punish people for doing PVP in certain areas of the game, and everybody at a similar skill level pays the same amount of ISK for SP insurance regardless of how much they lose pods.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#44 - 2013-02-08 17:29:50 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I like the idea of keeping the clone costs the same but turning it into an insurance for a period of 90 days, maybe longer or shorter as necessary, so your skillpoints are insured during that period no matter how many pods you lose. The only way to lose insurance would be to either let it expire or buy insurance for a higher SP level. That would actually increase the isk sink for those who don't lose clones very often, while at the same time making things a lot easier on those who lose clones frequently.


I wouldn't mind this. Even though it would cost myself more in the long run.

Well see, the benefit of such a scheme is that it doesn't punish people for doing PVP in certain areas of the game, and everybody at a similar skill level pays the same amount of ISK for SP insurance regardless of how much they lose pods.


The issue I do see with it however, is that people can and will abuse it heavily. Pretty much during that time frame you have unlimited supply of no cost clones for "pod scouting" or other things. Might be best to have a cap before you have to repay.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
fukier
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2013-02-08 17:32:20 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I like the idea of keeping the clone costs the same but turning it into an insurance for a period of 90 days, maybe longer or shorter as necessary, so your skillpoints are insured during that period no matter how many pods you lose. The only way to lose insurance would be to either let it expire or buy insurance for a higher SP level. That would actually increase the isk sink for those who don't lose clones very often, while at the same time making things a lot easier on those who lose clones frequently.


I wouldn't mind this. Even though it would cost myself more in the long run.

Well see, the benefit of such a scheme is that it doesn't punish people for doing PVP in certain areas of the game, and everybody at a similar skill level pays the same amount of ISK for SP insurance regardless of how much they lose pods.


The issue I do see with it however, is that people can and will abuse it heavily. Pretty much during that time frame you have unlimited supply of no cost clones for "pod scouting" or other things. Might be best to have a cap before you have to repay.



that why IMO the best way to do it is player manufactured clones...

leave the rpice up to the players not some odd math mechanic...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#46 - 2013-02-08 17:39:08 UTC
fukier wrote:



that why IMO the best way to do it is player manufactured clones...

leave the rpice up to the players not some odd math mechanic...


Actually now that I went out for a smoke, I remembered that what I mentioned as already possible with sub 900k SP alts. Manufactured clones doesn't really make sense, and seems more trouble then worth.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
fukier
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2013-02-08 17:45:35 UTC
Brooks Puuntai wrote:
Manufactured clones doesn't really make sense, and seems more trouble then worth.



elaborate pleaseSmile

i am curious what you mean by more trouble then worth...
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#48 - 2013-02-08 18:09:41 UTC
Benny Ohu wrote:
Ranger 1 wrote:
If they do rework the system I have to admit I would not mind...

A: Player created clones (with an investment in the gear/BP/bio mass necessary to do so).

B: Clone cost based on how many implants it is prepped to hold, instead of skill levels (which is a little silly if you think about it).

This way if you don't plan on using implants of any type you can get a hold of a very, very cheap clone no matter how old a player you are. Or you could pay a premium for a clone prepped to hold the max number of implants on day one of your EvE career.

I don't understand B. Surely the implants themselves should be the financial loss when you're podded, not the implant slots in addition?


Let me put it this way, which makes more sense?

1: You must pay more for your clone now because now you have more knowledge that needs to be transfered to your blank clone?

2: You can pay a small base fee for a clone that has not been augmented with any connection interfaces for cranial implants during the cloning process.
Or if you prefer you can pay an incrimentally higher amount for a clone that has had from 1-10 (max) connection interfaces for cranial implants installed/created during the cloning process.

Everything else would work as it always has. Pick your implants (if any) to install in your clone... if you want to swap a new one into that clone the old one is destroyed during the removal process.

You are simply paying for how many implant slots you wish to use in that particular clone as a variable fee instead of paying for a higher skill point level (more knowledge?) capacity of the clone (which makes far less sense).

I personally have some clones that I never have any iimplants in at all as they die very frequently, others have only those implants in place to speed up learning, still others sport the max number of implants available... it all depends on what I want that clone to do.

I'd much rather pay a nominal fee for a clone that has no (or very few) implants to use for things like flying T1 tacklers or cruisers, and would be quite happy paying more for a clone that is going to end up fully tricked out for heavy combat or used for research and skill training purposes primarily.

You already pay for clone replacement and implant replacement (if present), this just provides a (logical) mechanic for basing that price on capability rather than how old you are.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
stoicfaux
#49 - 2013-02-08 18:26:15 UTC
Ranger 1 wrote:

Let me put it this way, which makes more sense?

1: You must pay more for your clone now because now you have more knowledge that needs to be transfered to your blank clone?


Ugh, don't bring "sense" into this. "Realistically" clone price shouldn't matter on how much information you have. You're cloning the entire brain regardless of how much data is in it or how much "disk space" is being used. It's not like you're getting a bigger brain as you learn skills.


Pon Farr Memorial: once every 7 years, all the carebears in high-sec must PvP or they will be temp-banned.
Vincent Athena
Photosynth
#50 - 2013-02-08 18:28:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
In the lore there is a reason why high level clones are expensive: It harder to make the brains complex enough to accept all the extra skillpoints without loss.

This implies that if we could make our own clones, making high SP ones would be a long, expensive process.

http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Cloning

"The quality of the clone is always critical and this is a point that cannot be stressed enough. The closer the clone’s brain is to the original in shape and form the better the reviving process will work. The more different they are the more memory will be lost during the synaptic growth process. This is most clearly seen in the space industry. For a space captain to retain his license he must be connected to a cloning facility. But if he fails to buy himself a suitable clone, which he is not required to do by law, he will be given a generic clone instead at the time of death. As these generic clones are bound to have very different brains than the original the memory loss can be very severe. The best clones, made from certified human cadavers in perfect condition, are able to retain up to 99.99% of memory – a figure close enough to call the revived clone a true doppelganger of the original person. "

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fukier
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2013-02-08 18:33:36 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
In the lore there is a reason why high level clones are expensive: It harder to make the brains complex enough to accept all the extra skillpoints without loss.

This implies that if we could make our own clones, making high SP ones would be a long, expensive process.


perhaps... but they could have skills that could reduce the matercials and time it would take to make the more compelx ones...

that way if its your profession to make clones you can do it at a good profit.
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
Vaju Enki
Secular Wisdom
#52 - 2013-02-08 18:53:39 UTC
Im very disappointed with this dev.. CCP should increase the death penalty in EvE Online, not reduce it.

The Tears Must Flow
fukier
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2013-02-08 19:08:36 UTC
Vaju Enki wrote:
Im very disappointed with this dev.. CCP should increase the death penalty in EvE Online, not reduce it.

Why?
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.
XxRTEKxX
256th Shadow Wing
Phantom-Recon
#54 - 2013-02-08 19:25:23 UTC
Either remove clone cost, or drastically lower their price. You want more people in low/null, lower the burden of upgrading clones to keep sp, and that's a huge inventive to go out there and take the risk.

The higher my sp get, and the more expensive clone upgrading becomes, the less i want to risk being out there.

DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#55 - 2013-02-08 20:58:33 UTC
I think Medical clones should just have a lower price range and stay connected to the Medical Bay.

However, Ranger 1's proposal to have price based on clone upgrade slots merits some more consideration. Just a few observations and questions though.

Clones have 2 different upgrade slots available, Attribute slots (1-5) and Hardwiring slots (6-10).
Genolution Core Augmentation CA-1 and CA-2 is complete implant set (slot 1 and slot 4).
Pirate 'Named' and regular attribute implant sets cover slots 1-5.
Pirate 'Named' Attribute implant sets also have 1 Hardwiring implant available to complete the set (slot 6).

If you go by available Implant and Hardwiring slots (10) and option for no slots that would basically make 11 different types of Medical Clones available.

What about the Cerebral Accelerator implant that's available for new accounts up to 35 days old (slot 4), not sure if that's an Implant slot or Booster slot? I think it's a Booster slot. Speaking of Booster slots, surely that would require adding in more types of Medical Clones.

Just exactly how many classes or types of Medical Clones will be available to choose from? Also what would be the price per clone type? Now it's looking to be no different than the current in-game mechanic. Since Booster slots are used for Consumables, I think those slots should be included free with creation of all Medical Clones.

Anyway, maybe just have 3 different types of Medical Clones available? Such as:

'Basic' Medical Clone = no Implant slots
'Standard' Medical Clone = Attribute implant slots 1-5
'Upgraded' Medical Clone = Attribute implant slots 1-5 and Hardwiring slots 6-10

Now if the Cerebral Accelerator is indeed an Implant and not a Booster, then the 'Basic' Medical Clone should at least have 1 implant slot available. Also taking into consideration that CCP was giving players the Genolution CA-1 and CA-2 implant set which is basically great for new accounts, wouldn't that make the 'Basic' Medical Clone have at least 2 Attribute slots available?

After all that, I'll just stay with my original opening statement - I think Medical clones should just have a lower price range and stay connected to the Medical Bay.



DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
Irya Boone
The Scope
#56 - 2013-02-09 01:37:39 UTC
I think clones Should be cheaper or free Only the implants should cost more than Now.

And Allow Jump clone in the same [Region or System] under 24H timers.

And of course allow people To build/ sell / buy clones But Not WIth PI but With CORPSES and other things maybe
Clone = corpse+ PI T4 + Salvaged items .

giving corpse a new life ^^ and create a new career Corpse collector :)

CCP it's time to remove Off Grid Boost and Put Them on Killmail too, add Logi on killmails .... Open that damn door !!

you shall all bow and pray BoB
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#57 - 2013-02-09 01:52:24 UTC
Irya Boone wrote:
I think clones Should be cheaper or free Only the implants should cost more than Now.

And Allow Jump clone in the same [Region or System] under 24H timers.

And of course allow people To build/ sell / buy clones But Not WIth PI but With CORPSES and other things maybe
Clone = corpse+ PI T4 + Salvaged items .

giving corpse a new life ^^ and create a new career Corpse collector :)


Clone jumping to same station with reduced timer sure, but anywhere else no. Being able to instantly teleport to other areas of space, somewhat goes against the point of space travel. While having to travel X systems can seem pointless, but having players actually have to travel(in space) creates options for interaction, where as instant travel does not. This has always been my issue with clone jumping. Not to mention power projection, but thats another story.

Using corpses for manufacturing is something that has been talked about for along time. Personally I think biomassing corpses to use for implant production or high-end booster manufacturing is the best route.


CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
Marlona Sky
State War Academy
Caldari State
#58 - 2013-02-09 01:55:54 UTC
Hello.
Brooks Puuntai
Solar Nexus.
#59 - 2013-02-09 01:56:51 UTC
Hi.

CCP's Motto: If it isn't broken, break it. If it is broken, ignore it. Improving NPE / Dynamic New Eden
fukier
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2013-02-09 02:01:30 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
Hello.


Hi

Welcome to the thread.

Trolls, to the left of us are eating cheetos...

booze is on the table infront next to the ice sculpture of a moa.
At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box.