These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

improved access to Null Sec for part time pilots.
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#61 - 2013-02-08 15:13:46 UTC
Anyway is all fine, bubbles aren't that bad, generally are abbandoned there.

And 0.0 natives are mostly nice; to engage a fight they've a lot of protocols, rules of engagment and bureucrutic stuff, so they they generally dock or warp in safe as you enter and stop any activity leaving the system free for you to farm. They only pray for you to leave as soon as possible.
Then they have first to send a CTA, form up fleet inside a POS shield, send a scout.... this take hours and you have plenty of time.

Low sec natives are more aggressive; anyone target on seight and they jump on anything as rabid dogs in no time.
Subdolus Venator
State War Academy
Caldari State
#62 - 2013-02-08 15:14:02 UTC
Xinivrae wrote:
I've shot, or been shot at in every zone but w-space (but I'm working on that), and I don't see the difference. It doesn't matter where you shoot dudes, so just shoot dudes.

W-Space *is* different. Not hugely so, but enough, in subtle and important ways. From the lack of Local to the various effects of the WH on your ships' systems, to the special brand of crazies that live there, you'll find it's an interesting change-of-pace. Just don't forget to BM the exit... Or you'll learn an entirely new kind of lesson. Twisted

EVE is EVE - Feaces will eventuate.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#63 - 2013-02-08 15:15:30 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:

No, you posted because you want more easy stuff, scanning a wormhole to jump into null for some ratting isk is a thousand times easeir than learning how to be a squatter.

Look at the general reaction to your own thread. People are explaining to you that what you want already exists (high sec to null sec entry systems, npc null, wormholes with static null sec entrances, "squatting" like i explained etc etc. But none of that stuff is is nearly good enough, is it? Takes too much effort right?


Its also about a thousand times less profitable; a small gang in lowsec ratters don't clean systems and they don't have a ton of cargo space for loot.

If the wormhole closes they are stuck. And if the guys who live in null found it first and then notice you in system you are going to have a fight on your hands. The Russians I have run into keep a careful eye on wormholes that appear near them.

So the risk vs reward is probably pretty well balanced. Nothing wrong with null sec ratting through wormholes, its done now and is a great opportunity for interaction.

Your sensitivity about the potential for raiders to enter through these connections is interesting. Do you think a connection like this would be valuable to the more powerful elements of lowsec? In terms of the chance to hunt nullsec dwellers back behind their own gates and defenses?


You're irritating. Why, instead of jumping to dumb conclusions, wouldn't you simply ASK why I think it's a dumb idea (i've already said why, but as usual, you missed it).

No one ever said their is anything wrong with wormholes to null sec or anywhere else. Wormhole access to different parts of space is a very cool thing CCP has done.

They were also smart enough to not make it so common as to be a bypass to conflict (like Jump Bridges are). This Zen Dad dude isn't smart enough to understand this and selfishly wants more wormholes (into null specifically) so he can make isk in a place he normally can't be bothered to visit without a short cut.

I say the system is fine as it is. I "raid" and "squat" in null space I don't own all the time. Occasionally i find a wormhole near my null sec "home" to high sec that makes logistics WAY easier for a day or so. But, being that I'm not so selfish as to ask CCP to make things easier for me, you notice I've never asked them "more wormholes from null to high please".

Zen Dad just wants to bypass effort and risk, and EVE already has too many effort/risk bypasses. The idea (more "K space to k space" wormholes) doesn't threaten null sec, it threats the spirit and internal consistency of the game.

CCP isn't that dumb, I just wish some of it's players would think before posting.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#64 - 2013-02-08 15:16:22 UTC
Subdolus Venator wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Running into null from low is just stupid without a scout or a cheap ship. And certainly not worth it to rat for an hour or two. Nothing to do with lazy, it just isnt worth it.
As for moving to null, I don't mind visiting sometimes but I prefer lowsec.

See, I feel just the opposite. I live in Nul, out of a Sisters station, and I find Lo- and Hi-Sec to be places I visit only when absolutely necessary.

Amen to that
Subdolus Venator
State War Academy
Caldari State
#65 - 2013-02-08 15:17:24 UTC
Sura Sadiva wrote:

One can do everything if wants, only need to plan some.

Wish more people thought like this. EVE would be a much more awesome place.

EVE is EVE - Feaces will eventuate.
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
#66 - 2013-02-08 15:17:47 UTC
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
so what's wrong with moving to npc 0.0?



Nothing. And I probably will. But in the meantime the unexpected 0.0 wormhole was great fun and a few more wouldn't harm the game IMO.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#67 - 2013-02-08 15:19:52 UTC
Subdolus Venator wrote:
Sura Sadiva wrote:

One can do everything if wants, only need to plan some.

Wish more people thought like this. EVE would be a much more awesome place.


In my RL job I deal with dumb people (criminals) and i used to think that way too. Then I realized that if their were no people dumb enough to do criminal things, I wouldn't have a job.....

We need dumb people in EVE, what would we talk about in GD without something to point and laugh at ? Twisted
Subdolus Venator
State War Academy
Caldari State
#68 - 2013-02-08 15:20:15 UTC
Zen Dad wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
so what's wrong with moving to npc 0.0?



Nothing. And I probably will. But in the meantime the unexpected 0.0 wormhole was great fun and a few more wouldn't harm the game IMO.

So go find 'em. The challenge will make the finds that much more memorable and valuable. Why make it easier? It'd only devalue the finds.

EVE is EVE - Feaces will eventuate.
Subdolus Venator
State War Academy
Caldari State
#69 - 2013-02-08 15:22:27 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Subdolus Venator wrote:
Sura Sadiva wrote:

One can do everything if wants, only need to plan some.

Wish more people thought like this. EVE would be a much more awesome place.


In my RL job I deal with dumb people (criminals) and i used to think that way too. Then I realized that if their were no people dumb enough to do criminal things, I wouldn't have a job.....

We need dumb people in EVE, what would we talk about in GD without something to point and laugh at ? Twisted
Heh. I know a person who does half-way house and pre-release counselling. Mostly job-search stuff.
Smarter people who can recognize consequences and make plans generally means less crime. I know it'd be hard on you (and her) employment-wise, but I think the rest of us would appreciate the change.
Blink

EVE is EVE - Feaces will eventuate.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#70 - 2013-02-08 15:25:13 UTC
Zen Dad wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
so what's wrong with moving to npc 0.0?



Nothing. And I probably will. But in the meantime the unexpected 0.0 wormhole was great fun and a few more wouldn't harm the game IMO.


You don't know enough about the game to be able to say that. You lucked up on a WH to null and think thats great, not understanding that things exist how the do right now for a reason. The wise progression is -learn about the game 1st- THEN -form and post opinion-.

More bypass type wormholes more isk pumped into the game by "effortless ninja ratting" and less chances to take material (ships) out of the game due to fewer ship deaths (ships sometimes die trying to infiltrate null, like my recons I use for my Squatting Team). EVE has enough isk printing going on, and if you took time to learn more about the game you'd know WHY most people who posted in this thread are against your idea.

But like I said, go ahead and think the problem is "us" not "you", it's what you're good at.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#71 - 2013-02-08 15:26:13 UTC
Subdolus Venator wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Running into null from low is just stupid without a scout or a cheap ship. And certainly not worth it to rat for an hour or two. Nothing to do with lazy, it just isnt worth it.
As for moving to null, I don't mind visiting sometimes but I prefer lowsec.

See, I feel just the opposite. I live in Nul, out of a Sisters station, and I find Lo- and Hi-Sec to be places I visit only when absolutely necessary.

No I'm in agreement with you, well mostly. I like low just because I get along with the pirates there and the occasional slumming ratter hunter is often a gf.

I like null to, I've spent time in both ORE country and Providence, a bit in Delve. And when I'm on that side of the gate going into Empire space doesn't make sense.

Which is why these occasional WH bypasses are interesting. They are temporary so not really appropriate for trade or logistics. And they are risky; they can close and you really don't know who's on the other side.

They already exist so its not like the OP is asking for tons of new coding to implement some easy money scheme.

I think a lot of the resistance to this is just from fear of raiders using them to disrupt the smooth flow of nullsec life in the deep beyond.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#72 - 2013-02-08 15:27:18 UTC
Subdolus Venator wrote:
Zen Dad wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
so what's wrong with moving to npc 0.0?



Nothing. And I probably will. But in the meantime the unexpected 0.0 wormhole was great fun and a few more wouldn't harm the game IMO.

So go find 'em. The challenge will make the finds that much more memorable and valuable. Why make it easier? It'd only devalue the finds.


Many people don't understand that when you make precious things like Gold more abundant eventually it has the same value as another abundant thing called DIRT ..
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#73 - 2013-02-08 15:29:10 UTC
Zen Dad wrote:
[quote=Natsett Amuinn]Being able to avoid gate camps has nothing to do with casual play, it's about cowards.

Edit: for clarity.

I was about to say that all your kills must come from fat lazy gate camps when I noticed you only have deaths - are we to heed the opinion of a Masochist?


Yes, I camp gates in my Charon.

Cry more about gate camps.
Subdolus Venator
State War Academy
Caldari State
#74 - 2013-02-08 15:30:21 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:

I think a lot of the resistance to this is just from fear of raiders using them to disrupt the smooth flow of nullsec life in the deep beyond.
I disagree, here. The point is that the finds are valuable because they're rare. Make them less rare, they become un-valuable. And you'll find W-Space becomes over-crowded enough to lose it's special anarchic flavor - The large blocks will move in garrison forces in sheer self-defense.

EVE is EVE - Feaces will eventuate.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#75 - 2013-02-08 15:31:00 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Subdolus Venator wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Running into null from low is just stupid without a scout or a cheap ship. And certainly not worth it to rat for an hour or two. Nothing to do with lazy, it just isnt worth it.
As for moving to null, I don't mind visiting sometimes but I prefer lowsec.

See, I feel just the opposite. I live in Nul, out of a Sisters station, and I find Lo- and Hi-Sec to be places I visit only when absolutely necessary.

No I'm in agreement with you, well mostly. I like low just because I get along with the pirates there and the occasional slumming ratter hunter is often a gf.

I like null to, I've spent time in both ORE country and Providence, a bit in Delve. And when I'm on that side of the gate going into Empire space doesn't make sense.

Which is why these occasional WH bypasses are interesting. They are temporary so not really appropriate for trade or logistics. And they are risky; they can close and you really don't know who's on the other side.

They already exist so its not like the OP is asking for tons of new coding to implement some easy money scheme.

I think a lot of the resistance to this is just from fear of raiders using them to disrupt the smooth flow of nullsec life in the deep beyond.


You cling to such ideas because you don't like the truth. It's been explained.

The Op isn't asking for new coding, he's asking for more easy-ish access to someplace that usually takes effort to get to (like my carrier based squatting scheme). EVe doens't need more Easy. Easy is for Themeparks.

Why aren't you guys playing Star Trek Online if you want easy? I play STO when i want easy, it's not a terrible game anymore. but I don't go into STO saying "man, this game needs more sandbox stuff" lol.
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
#76 - 2013-02-08 15:32:27 UTC
Subdolus Venator wrote:
Zen Dad wrote:
TheBlueMonkey wrote:
so what's wrong with moving to npc 0.0?



Nothing. And I probably will. But in the meantime the unexpected 0.0 wormhole was great fun and a few more wouldn't harm the game IMO.

So go find 'em. The challenge will make the finds that much more memorable and valuable. Why make it easier? It'd only devalue the finds.



Cannot argue with that uplifting call to action! And I have been slogging my way around every system BUT the number appearing appeared to be far less than the stats showed.

Hence my post - and thence a torrent of reactionary ******* from players trying to preserve the status quo - which I had no intention or interest in disturbing actually.
Jenn aSide
Worthless Carebears
The Initiative.
#77 - 2013-02-08 15:33:35 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

Yes, I camp gates in my Charon.



Liar, you're in GOONS so you most be a PVPer/miner ganker/griefer. Just like how I live in null and can't possibly be an explorer who rarely pvps!

tell the Truth Nat, you're really just Mitten's posting alt!
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#78 - 2013-02-08 15:35:05 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Zen Dad wrote:
[quote=Natsett Amuinn]Being able to avoid gate camps has nothing to do with casual play, it's about cowards.

Edit: for clarity.

I was about to say that all your kills must come from fat lazy gate camps when I noticed you only have deaths - are we to heed the opinion of a Masochist?


Natsetts char is an indy guy. And he seems to be in a rotten mood today.

Puppy has me up at the buttcrack of dawn.

Yeah, I'm a little cranky. Doesn't excuse posting about ways to make it easier to enter null, because they don't want to use the high to null connections, low to null connections, or be bothered to scan down a WH to that's connected to a null system , or just make one connect.

None of that has anything to do with "casual" playing.

As a casual player myself, I do not need the game to be "easier" for the sake of being easier.

Anyone with half a brain knows exactly where to go in a null region if they want to find people.
OP just wants to make it easier to get to those locations.

That doesn't make you casual, it makes you a bad.
Subdolus Venator
State War Academy
Caldari State
#79 - 2013-02-08 15:39:12 UTC
Zen Dad wrote:


Cannot argue with that uplifting call to action! And I have been slogging my way around every system BUT the number appearing appeared to be far less than the stats showed.

Hence my post - and thence a torrent of reactionary ******* from players trying to preserve the status quo - which I had no intention or interest in disturbing actually.

This alt's entire purpose for existance is to do things that most people think are difficult. Beacuse what I do is unusual, and requires thought, planning, sharp reflexes, and a willingness to throw everything - including caution and planning -out the airlock, I have immense fun with him. This is the alt I fly when I start getting burned out, 'case he brings the challenge and the fun back.

Treat your null-sec WHs as big game. Go stalk 'em. Count each one as a trophy and a kill - a notch in your belt. Who knows - one day you may find yourself entering a WH and recognize it as an old friend. Beat your chest and proclaim your prowess with each one you hunt down. 'Cause frankly, that kinda sh** is fun. The harder it is, the more you become the Great Hunter.

EVE is EVE - Feaces will eventuate.
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
#80 - 2013-02-08 15:40:48 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:
Zen Dad wrote:
[quote=Natsett Amuinn]Being able to avoid gate camps has nothing to do with casual play, it's about cowards.

Edit: for clarity.

I was about to say that all your kills must come from fat lazy gate camps when I noticed you only have deaths - are we to heed the opinion of a Masochist?


Yes, I camp gates in my Charon.

Cry more about gate camps.


Road diversion - not taken