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Possible Winter 2011 changes (Exact stats)

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Scrapyard Bob
EVE University
Ivy League
#221 - 2011-10-26 03:12:58 UTC
Reilly Duvolle wrote:
Hmm lots of new T2 mods, and no T2 BPOs for those. Looks like a buff the inventors to Lol


Yes, I'm always happy when I see new T2 items that don't have the baggage of the old T2 BPO issues. Gives the inventors something where they're somewhat on even footing with the rest of the competition.

I think the warfare links will be popular along with some of the others.
TR4D3R4LT
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#222 - 2011-10-26 03:23:15 UTC
Cloora wrote:
Why would we nerf Caldari hybrid platform ships' agility with no corresponding speed buff?
I'm not excited about my Fat 1600mm plated Falcon being even more fat.


I wrote partially constructive ramble of over 4000 character long. Forum ate it. Now I just ask, CCP, what, if any, is your planned role for Caldari hybrid boats. Are they blaster/shield, rail/shield, combo or something else? Do you even have a plan for them? When I can actually use my Eagle in a way that doesn't get it laughed off by every other ship, including certain t1 cruisers? I recommend you take Eagle, Cerb, Deimos and Ishtar. Fit each for 3 different type of combat scenarios. Close range dps, long range dps and some other form of fleet role. Check which comes last for all 3 categories...

As someone asked for Harpy pilot. I've flown steadily blarpy as a tackle/some dps boat in small gank gang for years and at least for that role the blaster changes wont affect, the agility nerf will a bit. However it's spray and pray anyway so I wont notice much difference whether I live 40 or 42 seconds after someone actually starts to take me down. 1 vs 1 honor-fight performance I cant say anything as those happen in magical lala-land where unicorns fly, I've never been there. Either the blarpy nukes some silly toon at point blank range who doesnt know better or anyone more competent just kites the blarpy to oblivion. I've heard Ralpy fares better in 1 vs 1's but that might be rumor.
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#223 - 2011-10-26 03:49:31 UTC
I am so close to reactivating billing for my account.

Keep it up CCP, you're almost there.

Then do this every year.
Elyssa MacLeod
Doomheim
#224 - 2011-10-26 04:10:44 UTC
TR4D3R4LT wrote:
Cloora wrote:
Why would we nerf Caldari hybrid platform ships' agility with no corresponding speed buff?
I'm not excited about my Fat 1600mm plated Falcon being even more fat.


I wrote partially constructive ramble of over 4000 character long. Forum ate it. Now I just ask, CCP, when the hell are you going to get stable ******* forums?? You used to have them. This is not progress!


Sorry, that was my addition
Big smile

GM Homonoia: Suicide ganks are a valid and viable tactic in EVE.

Where is your God now carebear?
Captain Alcatraz
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#225 - 2011-10-26 07:04:43 UTC
2 accounts were running out of time in 3 days, 2 accounts resubbed.

Make it happen CCP
Tekota
The Freighter Factory
#226 - 2011-10-26 07:06:33 UTC
Blue Binary wrote:
1424. * Production Efficiency
1425. + manufactureCostBonusShowInfo: -5.0

If I read this right, that means the Production Efficiency skill will increase from 4% to 5% per level, giving an additional 5% at level 5 to become 25%.

Meaning less demand for minerals = cheaper manufactured goods and (initial) fall in price of minerals.


My best guess is a display change only, Production Efficiency currently improves the base multiplier of 1.25 by 4% per level - this results in an effective mineral change of 5% (4% of 1.25 is 0.05) and as such, for clarity it's simpler to describe this on the skill as a 5% per level change rather than 4%.
Sarmatiko
#227 - 2011-10-26 07:51:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Sarmatiko
Arugas Koken
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#228 - 2011-10-26 08:05:19 UTC
OMG.
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#229 - 2011-10-26 08:10:02 UTC
This is just purely awesome, I think the wip buffs look already very very good <3


Best regards,

A Gallente pilot

.
Tristan North
The Scope
#230 - 2011-10-26 08:12:29 UTC
Roime wrote:
This is just purely awesome, I think the wip buffs look already very very good <3


Best regards,

A Gallente pilot

10 m/s is good? For escape?
Hybrids are fine, but gallentes ships need way more speed, for what is now looks more like a nerf.
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#231 - 2011-10-26 08:12:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Gypsio III
Roosterton wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Sarmatiko wrote:
AC Tornado fit looks cool Smile
Too much HP, as expected… Straight


Not just too much EHP, too much DPS also. As long as blasters do not have range, ACs have no right to blaster-like DPS at close range while also having massive falloff and being mounted on much superior hulls.


Except that the Naga is capable of ~600 more DPS than the Tornado, and gets a web bonus.



Only one problem. The linked Talos fit has so little EHP that it would lose a straight-up fight to the linked Tornado at blaster optimal. "Better than a blasterboat at being a blasterboat".

But the fits are problematic (T2 rigs etc), let's equalise them a bit. A gank Tornado with dual LSE, triple extender rigs and triple gyros (normally you'd have at least one TE for range but we're fitting it to mimic a blasterboat) would have 980 DPS with Hail and 46k EHP overheated. In comparison, a 1600 mm neutron Talos with dual MFS, plate, DC, EANM and trimarks would have 1160 DPS and 41k EHP. The Tornado fit doesn't have a web, but since ACs don't have a problem tracking similar size ships, it doesn't really need one.

Ignoring damage types, the times-to-die at close range are: Talos 42 s; Tornado 40 s. If we don't ignore damage types, as we have to, then it becomes obvious that since the Tornado is hitting the Talos's lowest resist, the Tornado will actually will win a straight-up fight at blaster optimal: Talos 37 s; Tornado 41 s.

This is stupid. Not content with "better than a blasterboat at being a blasterboat", the Tornado then gets selectable damage types, capless weapons, much more speed and agility, and massive falloff to boot. I didn't include overheating weapons but this just gives the Tornado an even greater advantage, as drones can't be overheated.

This is just another example of the fundamental problem with blasters - ACs are too good at applying damage at blasters' optimal. This cannot be solved by boosting blasters, ACs have to be nerfed.
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#232 - 2011-10-26 08:50:05 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:
Roosterton wrote:
Gypsio III wrote:
Tippia wrote:
Sarmatiko wrote:
AC Tornado fit looks cool Smile
Too much HP, as expected… Straight


Not just too much EHP, too much DPS also. As long as blasters do not have range, ACs have no right to blaster-like DPS at close range while also having massive falloff and being mounted on much superior hulls.


Except that the Naga is capable of ~600 more DPS than the Tornado, and gets a web bonus.



Only one problem. The linked Talos fit has so little EHP that it would lose a straight-up fight to the linked Tornado at blaster optimal. "Better than a blasterboat at being a blasterboat".

But the fits are problematic (T2 rigs etc), let's equalise them a bit. A gank Tornado with dual LSE, triple extender rigs and triple gyros (normally you'd have at least one TE for range but we're fitting it to mimic a blasterboat) would have 980 DPS with Hail and 46k EHP overheated. In comparison, a 1600 mm neutron Talos with dual MFS, plate, DC, EANM and trimarks would have 1160 DPS and 41k EHP. The Tornado fit doesn't have a web, but since ACs don't have a problem tracking similar size ships, it doesn't really need one.

Ignoring damage types, the times-to-die at close range are: Talos 42 s; Tornado 40 s. If we don't ignore damage types, as we have to, then it becomes obvious that since the Tornado is hitting the Talos's lowest resist, the Tornado will actually will win a straight-up fight at blaster optimal: Talos 37 s; Tornado 41 s.

This is stupid. Not content with "better than a blasterboat at being a blasterboat", the Tornado then gets selectable damage types, capless weapons, much more speed and agility, and massive falloff to boot. I didn't include overheating weapons but this just gives the Tornado an even greater advantage, as drones can't be overheated.

This is just another example of the fundamental problem with blasters - ACs are too good at applying damage at blasters' optimal. This cannot be solved by boosting blasters, ACs have to be nerfed.


you
1) have way too much time on your hands
and
2) are making an argument based of the most selective of information

this doesn't even bring into discussion you're comparing a 1v1 (yeah, ok. that always works right?) and not even bringing up the fact that the talos both gets a drone bay and the most incredible hull bonus of all the tier 3 BCs. we won't even mention how you just tried to justify a nerf by pointing out a 4second discrepancy in projected survival time in said lol 1v1.

your argument has tunnel vision, is not practical and is invalid
Pepinillos
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#233 - 2011-10-26 08:58:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Pepinillos
No comments about the Oracle? It seriously needs a damage bonus IMO
Gypsio III
Questionable Ethics.
Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
#234 - 2011-10-26 08:59:41 UTC
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:


you
1) have way too much time on your hands
and
2) are making an argument based of the most selective of information

this doesn't even bring into discussion you're comparing a 1v1 (yeah, ok. that always works right?) and not even bringing up the fact that the talos both gets a drone bay and the most incredible hull bonus of all the tier 3 BCs. we won't even mention how you just tried to justify a nerf by pointing out a 4second discrepancy in projected survival time in said lol 1v1.

your argument has tunnel vision, is not practical and is invalid


Well, someone has to do your thinking for you. Straight

Outside a 1v1, in gang, the Tornado is unquestionably superior, as it has far greater mobility and DPS projection. This should be obvious to you. The 90% web is not hugely useful if the Talos cannot win a close-range encounter with the Tornado, even if it can actually get to close range. The 90% web is certainly useful for applying damage to smaller ships,but the falloff and mobility of the Tornado means that it can also do this, and across a much greater volume of space.
Shadowsword
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#235 - 2011-10-26 09:02:49 UTC
Pepinillos wrote:
No comments about the Oracle?


You mean aside from the fact that it does harbinger dps, only with more range? I can see see being a cheap alternative to a Zealot (you sacrifice frigate-killing ability for more dps and insurance), but not a major threat to other BC within 25km range.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#236 - 2011-10-26 09:04:25 UTC
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
your argument has tunnel vision, is not practical and is invalid
How so?

Oh, and I certainly see drones and hull being mentioned there…
Pepinillos wrote:
No comments about the Oracle? It seriously needs a damage bonus IMO
It's hilarious with Tachyons.
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#237 - 2011-10-26 09:06:54 UTC
Gypsio III wrote:

Well, someone has to do your thinking for you. Straight

Outside a 1v1, in gang, the Tornado is unquestionably superior, as it has far greater mobility and DPS projection. This should be obvious to you. The 90% web is not hugely useful if the Talos cannot win a close-range encounter with the Tornado, even if it can actually get to close range. The 90% web is certainly useful for applying damage to smaller ships,but the falloff and mobility of the Tornado means that it can also do this, and across a much greater volume of space.


I bolded the terrible part. Do you even read what your typing? Tornado is UNQUESTIONABLY SUPERIOR IT SHOULD BE OBVIOUS. THE 90% WEB BONUS IS UESLESS BECAUSE OF FALCON AND 1V1. FALLOFF NULLIFIES EVERYTHING

yeah, next you'll tell me the advantage of the talos' drone bay is completely cancelled out by teh tornado having a .02 different agility modifier

you haven't even seen anyone fly these ships and its soooo obvious to you how one is completely useless.

I get the feeling you die in all the ships you fly, and then you blame the ship.
Pepinillos
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#238 - 2011-10-26 09:10:16 UTC
Shadowsword wrote:
Pepinillos wrote:
No comments about the Oracle?


You mean aside from the fact that it does harbinger dps, only with more range? I can see see being a cheap alternative to a Zealot (you sacrifice frigate-killing ability for more dps and insurance), but not a major threat to other BC within 25km range.


As it is, the Oracle is either a shield Harbinger with a little more range but less EHP and speed/agility, or a Zealot with more range/dps but a lot less speed/agilty and even less ehp.

I fail to see the point of this.
Pr1ncess Alia
Doomheim
#239 - 2011-10-26 09:10:30 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
your argument has tunnel vision, is not practical and is invalid
How so?

Oh, and I certainly see drones and hull being mentioned there…


it takes circumstantial hypotheticals and makes broad sweeping generalizations. that's how so

yes, he mentions you can't overheat drones and that webs don't count because large acs can track identically sized ships... again vs the 1v1 argument which, for 8 years running, has been the weakest and worst way to try and discuss ship balance.

tunnel
vision

he looks at the tip of the iceberg and is SO CERTAIN how big the rest of it is.
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#240 - 2011-10-26 09:16:42 UTC
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
it takes circumstantial hypotheticals and makes broad sweeping generalizations. that's how so
But the thing is, you didn't really address any of his points…