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improved access to Null Sec for part time pilots.
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TheBlueMonkey
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2013-02-08 13:41:01 UTC
so what's wrong with moving to npc 0.0?
Sura Sadiva
Entropic Tactical Crew
#42 - 2013-02-08 13:45:51 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:

So maybe it is a good idea to keep space big and keep players separated, but you can't say that null gates are the same risk as low gates, that is just not true.


I haven't said that are the same risk, of course buble are more dangerous. I said that in my experience the access low->null are less often camped than high->null. Generally you jump there and find the system simply empty. I wouldn't move in battleship anyway, not in low nor in null.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#43 - 2013-02-08 13:47:36 UTC
Zen Dad wrote:
Cpt Roghie wrote:
You can live in High-sec one jump out of 0.0 and alot of pvp. (Torrinos)

HTFU.


Thanks for this tip, I am going there immediately with all my possessions and will give you a 5 minute warning when about to enter.

The bright red colour of this area on Dotlan is my favourite colour too - very thoughtful of you - thanks.

You asked for easy access, something that already exist, but what you meant was a safe access.

Gtfo.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#44 - 2013-02-08 13:47:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenn aSide
Sura Sadiva wrote:
Zen Dad wrote:
just keeping this on topic -
What are the solid reasons for not increasing 0.0 access for more casual players by say 15 -20% via hi and lo-sec WHs.
Not liking the suggestion or the OP's portrait is insufficient.


I live in low sec so have no specific interest in having 0.0 less accessible or stuff like that; and I lke your portrait a lot.

However I think semplifications ara bad for the game. In the last years 0.0 logistic has been trivialized a lot, and in general in all all New Eden, making the EVE universe smaller. Adding more access ways can only make things worse.

Beside I don't really see a problem with null sec access, generally is like 8-10 jumps from a low sec hub and you can play there casual as in any other part of New Eden.

And IMHO gate camps are more common in low than in null, for sure the low->null access is not harder than high->low.



Well said.

When I want to go play around in null sec where I don't have friends (for instance, space with Angel Rats, i love angel rats), I infiltrate my cyno recon guy into some backwater and bring a 2nd toon in a cloaky nullified tech 3. The cyno recon pops a cyno and my 3rd toon comes in with a carrier, gets a spot and cloaks. The Carrier is my mobile space station.

After the cyno goes down, the cloaky T3 and cyno recon toons go to the carrier and get the REAL ratting ships out, and i clean the system. Anyone comes in I safe up and cloak till they leave. If they don't leave I just switch ships again and jump to anohter backwater (a couple times i've gotten my cyno recon popped, no prob, clone is set to nearest low sec and I gotta stack of Rapiers lol.

I've squatted like that for months and lost only a handful of recons, not a single carrier or ratting ship or tech3 (I use the T3 because the main ratting toon has nice implants).

But I see now that I shouldn't have figured out how to squat in hostile null sec, I shoulda just come to the forums and asked for more wormholes. Damn it why didn't I think of that?
Skaz
Skazmanian Industries
#45 - 2013-02-08 13:51:32 UTC
Zen Dad wrote:
Want more pilots in null sec ? Then try increasing the number of WHs connected to 0.0

For many RL TIME POOR pilots ( me) a 0.0 WH connection means valuable time in null without the daunting travel and logistics.

i had a great couple of hours in null recently, but the best bit was knowing I could be back to my lo-sec home with loot and a kill within minutes - not RL hours. (Arriving in a smoking Pod was also a possibility)

Stats seem to suggest that x% of WH's lead to 0.0, but after a LOT of probing it feels more like 1:50 link to null.

More connections = more pilots 'having a go' - many may eventually convert from NInja to resident.

At the very least they would have fun becoming an unexpected bloody nuisance, and provide nice fresh targets for jaded nullsec dwellers.

So, give me a RL TIME efficient way such as this to get into 0.0 Mr.CCP and I will go for it - promise.


==================================================================

When the **** hits the fan it's rarely evenly distributed.












But, but, but, ze gatecamps....?

Dey needz targetz!

But in all seriousness I don't think this is the best solution, wh work both ways right? So the effect might just be more fighting in wh space, not overall a bad thing but not the intended effect right?

-... ..- -.-- / -- -.-- / ... - ..- ..-. ..-. / --- -. / - .... . / -- .- .-. -.- . - / - .... .. ... / ... .. --. -. .- - ..- .-. . / .. -.. . .- / .. ... / ... .... .- -- . .-.. . ... ... .-.. -.-- / ... - --- .-.. . -.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#46 - 2013-02-08 13:55:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Natsett Amuinn
Being able to avoid gate camps has nothing to do with casual play, it's about cowards.

Edit: for clarity.

The op is a coward.
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
#47 - 2013-02-08 14:10:59 UTC
i posted because WH access seemed a neat though temporary way of getting unexpected 0.0 as a reward for exploration.

it seemed to meld nicely with CCPs desire to get players out of their comfort zones and increase interaction.


A temporary WH pass only benefits those who are prepared to scan and probe their way in and out, and for a relatively brief time.

The creatures of habit can continue to chance their luck with the gang **** that passes for normal combat for some.
Natsett Amuinn
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#48 - 2013-02-08 14:16:18 UTC
Zen Dad wrote:
i posted because WH access seemed a neat though temporary way of getting unexpected 0.0 as a reward for exploration.

it seemed to meld nicely with CCPs desire to get players out of their comfort zones and increase interaction.


A temporary WH pass only benefits those who are prepared to scan and probe their way in and out, and for a relatively brief time.

The creatures of habit can continue to chance their luck with the gang **** that passes for normal combat for some.


It already exists.

That's not what you want at all.

You want MORE safe access to null. That's what you're really asking for.

Besides the fact that wormholes don't work how you seem to think they do, or want. There is no static entrance and exit in a WH. What you're asking for would require CCP to create wormholes that have static entrances to null; in other words they ALWAYS exit to a null system.

You're asking for a safer means of entering someone else's space.

It has **** to do with being casual and everything to do with wanting to be able to avoid the gates, and therefore camps.

If its to much effort for you, then stay the hell out of null.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#49 - 2013-02-08 14:17:50 UTC
Zen Dad wrote:
i posted because WH access seemed a neat though temporary way of getting unexpected 0.0 as a reward for exploration.




No, you posted because you want more easy stuff, scanning a wormhole to jump into null for some ratting isk is a thousand times easeir than learning how to be a squatter.

Look at the general reaction to your own thread. People are explaining to you that what you want already exists (high sec to null sec entry systems, npc null, wormholes with static null sec entrances, "squatting" like i explained etc etc. But none of that stuff is is nearly good enough, is it? Takes too much effort right?
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#50 - 2013-02-08 14:24:25 UTC
Natsett Amuinn wrote:

You want MORE safe access to null. That's what you're really asking for.

Besides the fact that wormholes don't work how you seem to think they do, or want. There is no static entrance and exit in a WH. What you're asking for would require CCP to create wormholes that have static entrances to null; in other words they ALWAYS exit to a null system.

You're asking for a safer means of entering someone else's space.

It has **** to do with being casual and everything to do with wanting to be able to avoid the gates, and therefore camps.

If its to much effort for you, then stay the hell out of null.


He suggested increasing the frequency of null to low and null to high womoles. They already exist now, about 1 in 50 WH i find in low go into null, some of them way back.

Nothing new here, these connections already exist.
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
#51 - 2013-02-08 14:24:32 UTC
[quote=Natsett Amuinn]Being able to avoid gate camps has nothing to do with casual play, it's about cowards.

Edit: for clarity.

I was about to say that all your kills must come from fat lazy gate camps when I noticed you only have deaths - are we to heed the opinion of a Masochist?
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#52 - 2013-02-08 14:30:44 UTC
Zen Dad wrote:
[quote=Natsett Amuinn]Being able to avoid gate camps has nothing to do with casual play, it's about cowards.

Edit: for clarity.

I was about to say that all your kills must come from fat lazy gate camps when I noticed you only have deaths - are we to heed the opinion of a Masochist?


Natsetts char is an indy guy. And he seems to be in a rotten mood today.
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
#53 - 2013-02-08 14:41:13 UTC  |  Edited by: Zen Dad
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Zen Dad wrote:
[quote=Natsett Amuinn]Being able to avoid gate camps has nothing to do with casual play, it's about cowards.

Edit: for clarity.

I was about to say that all your kills must come from fat lazy gate camps when I noticed you only have deaths - are we to heed the opinion of a Masochist?


Natsetts char is an indy guy. And he seems to be in a rotten mood today.


Yes ! i've read the forums enough times now to recognise some serial behaviour.

CCP ask you to post on the forums as thats where the GM's are supposed to graze.

So I will trust that they know who the fruitcakes are ( that may include me) and can quietly weigh ideas up without going off the deep end.

if Natsett and Jenn ARE GM's then of course I'm stuffed - but I love them still - crouched under those little stone bridges.
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#54 - 2013-02-08 14:45:06 UTC
Zen Dad wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Zen Dad wrote:
[quote=Natsett Amuinn]Being able to avoid gate camps has nothing to do with casual play, it's about cowards.

Edit: for clarity.

I was about to say that all your kills must come from fat lazy gate camps when I noticed you only have deaths - are we to heed the opinion of a Masochist?


Natsetts char is an indy guy. And he seems to be in a rotten mood today.


Yes ! i've posted a few times now and there are several serial bile spouters.

CCP ask you to post on the forums as thats where the GM's are supposed to graze.

So I will trust that they know who the fruitcakes are ( that may include me) and can weigh idead up without going off the deep end.

if Natsett and Jenn ARE GM's then of course I'm stuffed - but I love them still - crouched under those little stone bridges.
\

My bridge is made of concrete and you shall not pass.

But yea, keep thinking everyone else is the problem instead of your entitled/un-EVE-like attitude. if you want to go to null, go there, stop asking for more easy in a game that's not about easy.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#55 - 2013-02-08 14:51:32 UTC
Zen Dad wrote:

if Natsett and Jenn ARE GM's then of course I'm stuffed - but I love them still - crouched under those little stone bridges.


lol GM's.

Natsett is a nullsec industrialist, he has some great ideas about highsec POS's and creating more opportunity for interaction.

Jenn is a different animal all together; she posts with a solid understanding of what the blob will rally around, and then leverages her position with their presence. The thing is she often overlooks details in favor of momentum, it's not a bad tactic for trolling. She can safely be ignored or answered, just focus on the inevitable flaws in thinking.
Zen Dad
Solitary Sad Bastard In Space
#56 - 2013-02-08 14:53:55 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Zen Dad wrote:
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Zen Dad wrote:
[quote=Natsett Amuinn]Being able to avoid gate camps has nothing to do with casual play, it's about cowards.

Edit: for clarity.

I was about to say that all your kills must come from fat lazy gate camps when I noticed you only have deaths - are we to heed the opinion of a Masochist?


Natsetts char is an indy guy. And he seems to be in a rotten mood today.


Yes ! i've posted a few times now and there are several serial bile spouters.

CCP ask you to post on the forums as thats where the GM's are supposed to graze.

So I will trust that they know who the fruitcakes are ( that may include me) and can weigh idead up without going off the deep end.

if Natsett and Jenn ARE GM's then of course I'm stuffed - but I love them still - crouched under those little stone bridges.
\

My bridge is made of concrete and you shall not pass.

But yea, keep thinking everyone else is the problem instead of your entitled/un-EVE-like attitude. if you want to go to null, go there, stop asking for more easy in a game that's not about easy.

God bless you Jenn with your reactionary views and itchy trigger finger - the longer you rage the longer this thread stays up and the more chance of someone in ccp thinking hmmmmmmmmm...!!

Keep at me.,





Subdolus Venator
State War Academy
Caldari State
#57 - 2013-02-08 15:01:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Subdolus Venator
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:

This is because gates are hard to jump, isnt it.

Many pilots think this is so.
It isn't.

Personally, I'm quite pelased with things as they are. W-Space should be at least a bit challenging to get into, and Nul should require that you've got some balls and some brains.

No More Heroes wrote:

Dude just go through the Torrinos gate

The juxtaposition of your handle with your post is quite hilarious. Cool

Torrinos Gate is one of my favorite gates to joust. Smile

EVE is EVE - Feaces will eventuate.
Corey Fumimasa
CFM Salvage
#58 - 2013-02-08 15:06:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Corey Fumimasa
Jenn aSide wrote:

No, you posted because you want more easy stuff, scanning a wormhole to jump into null for some ratting isk is a thousand times easeir than learning how to be a squatter.

Look at the general reaction to your own thread. People are explaining to you that what you want already exists (high sec to null sec entry systems, npc null, wormholes with static null sec entrances, "squatting" like i explained etc etc. But none of that stuff is is nearly good enough, is it? Takes too much effort right?


Its also about a thousand times less profitable; a small gang in lowsec ratters don't clean systems and they don't have a ton of cargo space for loot.

If the wormhole closes they are stuck. And if the guys who live in null found it first and then notice you in system you are going to have a fight on your hands. The Russians I have run into keep a careful eye on wormholes that appear near them, and are very aggressive in defending the space.

So the risk vs reward is probably pretty well balanced. Nothing wrong with null sec ratting through wormholes, its done now and is a great opportunity for interaction.

Your sensitivity about the potential for raiders to enter through these connections is interesting. Do you think a connection like this would be valuable to the more powerful elements of lowsec? In terms of the chance to hunt nullsec dwellers back behind their own gates and defenses?
Jenn aSide
Soul Machines
The Initiative.
#59 - 2013-02-08 15:07:21 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Zen Dad wrote:

if Natsett and Jenn ARE GM's then of course I'm stuffed - but I love them still - crouched under those little stone bridges.


lol GM's.

Natsett is a nullsec industrialist, he has some great ideas about highsec POS's and creating more opportunity for interaction.

Jenn is a different animal all together; she posts with a solid understanding of what the blob will rally around, and then leverages her position with their presence. The thing is she often overlooks details in favor of momentum, it's not a bad tactic for trolling. She can safely be ignored or answered, just focus on the inevitable flaws in thinking.


You actually really think that don't you. You think I say what I say for some kind of brownie points?

That's the problem with your biases, you can't see past them, and can't understand that people simply have different philosphies about how things work. So you imagine all manner of things that simply aren't true.

No harm done as it doesn't matter what you think, just a suggestion that you take a closer look at your own ways. I'll bet you've never asked your self WHY you want the things you do.
Subdolus Venator
State War Academy
Caldari State
#60 - 2013-02-08 15:08:45 UTC
Corey Fumimasa wrote:
Running into null from low is just stupid without a scout or a cheap ship. And certainly not worth it to rat for an hour or two. Nothing to do with lazy, it just isnt worth it.
As for moving to null, I don't mind visiting sometimes but I prefer lowsec.

See, I feel just the opposite. I live in Nul, out of a Sisters station, and I find Lo- and Hi-Sec to be places I visit only when absolutely necessary.

EVE is EVE - Feaces will eventuate.