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High sec, get ready to be represented! James 315 announced his candidacy for CSM 8 in Brapelille!!!
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Singular Snowflake
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2013-02-07 21:17:43 UTC
Manu Militari wrote:

What ? Moderate politicians are able to work together and make things happen. Your statement is backwards. Look at the American political system right now, both parties are leaning to their respective extremes and there is NO cooperation. In all actuality the economic crisis and the debt risks have been on going for so long bc both parties are holdin to their ideological extreme rather than meeting in the middle for the good on the people who elected them. Extremism is working quite well in the Middle East as well, there is a lot being accomplished.

What have your "moderate" Isslers achieved in the past years? Nothing. Now it is time for a true change. Funny that you mention middle-east where "extremists" have recently been able to make biggest political changes in decades. You might not agree to their agenda, but you can not deny they are effective.
Kainotomiu Ronuken
koahisquad
#62 - 2013-02-07 21:27:14 UTC
Manu Militari wrote:
I mean obviously your blinded as one of the new orders minions but I just think James is runnin on a platform for the sake of running. There are much more desperately needed changes to tho game than what hisec requires. Eve I a sandbox and James is supposedly the only can candidate to support that (wha?) but In reality he is just trying to push his agenda and have the game changed to a play style he likes. It's a sandbox, the people who chose to play the carebears hisec lifestyle want to and made that choice. Their role is vital to eve, to nerf their game into oblivion is counterintuitive to what James so adamantly believes in. Null sec and lowsec have a lot more problems than hisec. These so called hisec solutions are just pvpers (llike me) trying to get more targets and action but in doing so they ignore the side effects on commerce an industry in new Eden. Who cares if some people want grins missions all day, it's a GRIND its not easy and it takes time. Yes it's relatively safe but not completely as James n the new order have made perfectly clear. Fix null and lowsec first then ccp can think about hisec. James wants to make change for the sake of making change and feelin important when in reality stupid ideas like this will work to ruin the delicate balance of Eve.

I'm not sure you even read the platform, let alone understood it. Changes to null and lowsec are all over that thing! In any case, buffing null instead of nerfing highsec is just going to cause massive inflation when everything becomes cheaper. If nullsec is going to be buffed, highsec has to be nerfed equally.
Vortexo VonBrenner
Doomheim
#63 - 2013-02-07 23:18:24 UTC
Primary Me wrote:

I'm sure James is stating his position honestly. In politics moderates cause stagnation and extremes cause change, and hi-sec desperately needs change.




LOL *highfive* This is going to be an interesting campaign...






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Katsumoto Moliko
Players vs. EVE
Goonswarm Federation
#64 - 2013-02-08 02:04:26 UTC
Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:

I'm not sure you even read the platform, let alone understood it. Changes to null and lowsec are all over that thing! In any case, buffing null instead of nerfing highsec is just going to cause massive inflation when everything becomes cheaper. If nullsec is going to be buffed, highsec has to be nerfed equally.


I did indeed read his platform. He intends to "nerf highsec into oblivion."

From what I elaborated on my last point, nerfing highsec to the extent that he is pushing for is dangerous. Highsec may need to see a notable rollback in profitability along side the buff to nullsec, but what he suggests is essentially going to turn highsec into an isk barren wasteland.

I think people are forgetting where new players live, skill up, and save up until they have the capital, competence, and skills to venture out to the frontier.

Now I agree with you that there is too much of an imbalance in the risk/reward ratio in high-security space, but what James 315 wants will drive new players into low or null far too early (and will not stand a ghost of a chance to compete with already heavily established corporations, mind you), or even prolong their stay in an effort to save up capital indefinitely.
Manu Militari
Neurotoxin Control
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
#65 - 2013-02-08 03:47:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Manu Militari
Singular Snowflake wrote:
Manu Militari wrote:

What ? Moderate politicians are able to work together and make things happen. Your statement is backwards. Look at the American political system right now, both parties are leaning to their respective extremes and there is NO cooperation. In all actuality the economic crisis and the debt risks have been on going for so long bc both parties are holdin to their ideological extreme rather than meeting in the middle for the good on the people who elected them. Extremism is working quite well in the Middle East as well, there is a lot being accomplished.

What have your "moderate" Isslers achieved in the past years? Nothing. Now it is time for a true change. Funny that you mention middle-east where "extremists" have recently been able to make biggest political changes in decades. You might not agree to their agenda, but you can not deny they are effective.



Yes, the middle east is going through great change but it seems like the radical movements didnt think much about the consequences of their change or the long term. How are the governments working out for them? Egypt? Teetering on the edge of another collapse and under corrupt military rule, ya the people won that one. Iran? That ended quick. Libya? Syria? Anyways, enough with the comparisons to RL.. What james is talking about isnt changing hisec its ending it? You cant realistically think this makes any plausible sense.




Kainotomiu Ronuken wrote:
Manu Militari wrote:
I mean obviously your blinded as one of the new orders minions but I just think James is runnin on a platform for the sake of running. There are much more desperately needed changes to tho game than what hisec requires. Eve I a sandbox and James is supposedly the only can candidate to support that (wha?) but In reality he is just trying to push his agenda and have the game changed to a play style he likes. It's a sandbox, the people who chose to play the carebears hisec lifestyle want to and made that choice. Their role is vital to eve, to nerf their game into oblivion is counterintuitive to what James so adamantly believes in. Null sec and lowsec have a lot more problems than hisec. These so called hisec solutions are just pvpers (llike me) trying to get more targets and action but in doing so they ignore the side effects on commerce an industry in new Eden. Who cares if some people want grins missions all day, it's a GRIND its not easy and it takes time. Yes it's relatively safe but not completely as James n the new order have made perfectly clear. Fix null and lowsec first then ccp can think about hisec. James wants to make change for the sake of making change and feelin important when in reality stupid ideas like this will work to ruin the delicate balance of Eve.

I'm not sure you even read the platform, let alone understood it. Changes to null and lowsec are all over that thing! In any case, buffing null instead of nerfing highsec is just going to cause massive inflation when everything becomes cheaper. If nullsec is going to be buffed, highsec has to be nerfed equally.



I understand there is a lot about null sec but thats not the platform i was speaking of. Thread titled "High sec, get ready to be represented..", James isnt running on representing anything anyone from hisec wants, he is running to alter hisec to his perceptiong of what the game should be, which also goes against his platform of being the only true candidate in support of a sandbox. I agree with a lot of what James says about null sec etc, but I just think his ideas about hisec are ridiculous... realistically imagine his ideas put in place. The economy of eve would utterly collapse and a vast majority of players would unsubscribe as the game they play is over. How is that in any way shape or form good for Eve? Yes, more pvp but with no industry to support it. He talks about miners being the bottom of the pvp food chain but that is so wrong, they are the bottom of the industrial food chain and without them it would collapse.

Null in its current state has the best isk making oppurtunities in the game yet its still empty bc people are willing to take relative safety for MUCH LESS isk. Yes, there are a lot of players in hisec who have become rich through hisec but at a great cost. There is not much threat of imminent danger but in exchange you must GRIND out the isk, and put countless hours into it. Its not a get rich quick scheme going on here. Yes, take level 4s out of hisec, nerf exploration in hisec, end mission bounty FARMING in hisec, but to kill hisec and its 'carebears' as James wants is ridiculous. Without hisec new players would never pass being 'new' because they would quit. They are at such a skill and isk disadvantage already, taking their proving grounds away would only make it worse.

I mean I'm done making my case as these ideas are so farfetched they will never happen but really, step back and imagine the changes James is promoting for hisec.. if you think they are remotely feasible or good for the game you have some serious misconceptions on how things work.


Good luck with your Campaign. o7
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
#66 - 2013-02-08 04:44:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Jonah Gravenstein
What James suggests may seem a little extreme, but it's no more extreme than some of the "Highsec should be totally safe" arguments. An extreme manifesto sparks discussion and gets people talking, which is a good thing.

I'm a supporter of what he's doing in highsec, it's good for the game and raises awareness about some of the issues with NPC corps, wardecs, bounties etc. On the other hand I disagree with much of his manifesto as it stands, but like any political stance it is there to provoke a reaction, and if any of it gets implemented it'll get implemented after much discussion and compromise between CCP and the CSM.

He's definitely right about lowsec though, it's a wasteland and needs more population, the side effect of a bigger population is civilisation. The industrial and PvE corps that take the chance will have to provide their own safety, that requires diplomacy and guns, lots of guns. Make it worthwhile living in lowsec and people will fight to protect what they have, doing so will require teamwork, running solo just won't cut it.

In the beginning there was nothing, which exploded.

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Zol Interbottom
Blimp Requisition Services
#67 - 2013-02-08 05:09:06 UTC
i am a supported on making the game impossible to get into without massive assistance and then whining when there is no one new to shoot at

"If you're quitting for the 3rd time you clearly ain't quitting" - Chribba
Vin King
State War Academy
Caldari State
#68 - 2013-02-08 06:18:59 UTC
Manu Militari wrote:
Without hisec new players would never pass being 'new' because they would quit. They are at such a skill and isk disadvantage already, taking their proving grounds away would only make it worse.


As a new player, I've been podded for mining in LowSec, I've been pursued and blown up by Concord, I've received a bounty for 10M isk, I've sold ammo to other new players/characters, I've flown with gank fleets, I've bumped afk miners, I've learned how to steer, and much much more.

I've had a fun and exciting 10 days since I started playing.

None of it has been safe, none of it has been extremely profitable, but all of it has been fun. The times I've been the most bored with are when I sit there, staring at lasers slowly make an asteroid into isk. The changes suggested here can make my experience common for new players. "Welcome to the game, have some fun with some people." There's still safe places for newbies, places where we can mess around with trying to learn what we're doing. But there's room for much more fun to be had. I wouldn't trade my experiences as a new player jumping into risky endeavors for all the ice in Halaima.

Proud member of the New Order of HighSec
Zol Interbottom
Blimp Requisition Services
#69 - 2013-02-08 11:18:59 UTC
Vin King wrote:
Manu Militari wrote:
Without hisec new players would never pass being 'new' because they would quit. They are at such a skill and isk disadvantage already, taking their proving grounds away would only make it worse.


As a new player, I've been podded for mining in LowSec, I've been pursued and blown up by Concord, I've received a bounty for 10M isk, I've sold ammo to other new players/characters, I've flown with gank fleets, I've bumped afk miners, I've learned how to steer, and much much more.

I've had a fun and exciting 10 days since I started playing.

None of it has been safe, none of it has been extremely profitable, but all of it has been fun. The times I've been the most bored with are when I sit there, staring at lasers slowly make an asteroid into isk. The changes suggested here can make my experience common for new players. "Welcome to the game, have some fun with some people." There's still safe places for newbies, places where we can mess around with trying to learn what we're doing. But there's room for much more fun to be had. I wouldn't trade my experiences as a new player jumping into risky endeavors for all the ice in Halaima.


i am fairly certain that you sir, are in fact, an alternate character of a person of ill repute posting on the forums to attempt to bring new players to the New Order

"If you're quitting for the 3rd time you clearly ain't quitting" - Chribba
Singular Snowflake
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2013-02-08 12:24:43 UTC
Zol Interbottom wrote:
Vin King wrote:
Manu Militari wrote:
Without hisec new players would never pass being 'new' because they would quit. They are at such a skill and isk disadvantage already, taking their proving grounds away would only make it worse.


As a new player, I've been podded for mining in LowSec, I've been pursued and blown up by Concord, I've received a bounty for 10M isk, I've sold ammo to other new players/characters, I've flown with gank fleets, I've bumped afk miners, I've learned how to steer, and much much more.

I've had a fun and exciting 10 days since I started playing.

None of it has been safe, none of it has been extremely profitable, but all of it has been fun. The times I've been the most bored with are when I sit there, staring at lasers slowly make an asteroid into isk. The changes suggested here can make my experience common for new players. "Welcome to the game, have some fun with some people." There's still safe places for newbies, places where we can mess around with trying to learn what we're doing. But there's room for much more fun to be had. I wouldn't trade my experiences as a new player jumping into risky endeavors for all the ice in Halaima.


i am fairly certain that you sir, are in fact, an alternate character of a person of ill repute posting on the forums to attempt to bring new players to the New Order

Yeah, because actually playing "EVE Online, the spaceship game" instead of AFK mining does, and should not happen.
Zol Interbottom
Blimp Requisition Services
#71 - 2013-02-08 13:21:15 UTC
Singular Snowflake wrote:
Zol Interbottom wrote:
Vin King wrote:
Manu Militari wrote:
Without hisec new players would never pass being 'new' because they would quit. They are at such a skill and isk disadvantage already, taking their proving grounds away would only make it worse.


As a new player, I've been podded for mining in LowSec, I've been pursued and blown up by Concord, I've received a bounty for 10M isk, I've sold ammo to other new players/characters, I've flown with gank fleets, I've bumped afk miners, I've learned how to steer, and much much more.

I've had a fun and exciting 10 days since I started playing.

None of it has been safe, none of it has been extremely profitable, but all of it has been fun. The times I've been the most bored with are when I sit there, staring at lasers slowly make an asteroid into isk. The changes suggested here can make my experience common for new players. "Welcome to the game, have some fun with some people." There's still safe places for newbies, places where we can mess around with trying to learn what we're doing. But there's room for much more fun to be had. I wouldn't trade my experiences as a new player jumping into risky endeavors for all the ice in Halaima.


i am fairly certain that you sir, are in fact, an alternate character of a person of ill repute posting on the forums to attempt to bring new players to the New Order

Yeah, because actually playing "EVE Online, the spaceship game" instead of AFK mining does, and should not happen.

Yes, because i can obviously afford a hulk to AFK mine my way to a bazzilion ISK, its not like everyone who disagrees with your goals is a "bot aspirant AFK miner who seeks only to play the game for his own profit", i dont even make enough money to afford to fly my first ******* vexor, i am literally using the same ship i have had for months, please, show me where this magic money faucet that supposedly exists in highsec is, because i can not find it and station trading is boring as balls

"If you're quitting for the 3rd time you clearly ain't quitting" - Chribba
Vin King
State War Academy
Caldari State
#72 - 2013-02-08 13:28:01 UTC
Zol Interbottom wrote:

i am fairly certain that you sir, are in fact, an alternate character of a person of ill repute posting on the forums to attempt to bring new players to the New Order


If it's really that impossible for new players to start playing the game, then why does everyone pretend to care about them? DBRB accidentally makes news, but surely nobody who doesn't already play the game would read that and become interested in playing, right? Any real new player has to want to afk mine ice, because new players need to supply the fuel market. That's their only purpose. No new player is allowed to have any sort of fun.

I'm sorry, but I fundamentally disagree with the role you envision for new players. I thought I was joining a game where people had risk and ships got blowed up.

Proud member of the New Order of HighSec
Zol Interbottom
Blimp Requisition Services
#73 - 2013-02-08 13:41:23 UTC
Vin King wrote:
Zol Interbottom wrote:

i am fairly certain that you sir, are in fact, an alternate character of a person of ill repute posting on the forums to attempt to bring new players to the New Order


If it's really that impossible for new players to start playing the game, then why does everyone pretend to care about them? DBRB accidentally makes news, but surely nobody who doesn't already play the game would read that and become interested in playing, right? Any real new player has to want to afk mine ice, because new players need to supply the fuel market. That's their only purpose. No new player is allowed to have any sort of fun.

I'm sorry, but I fundamentally disagree with the role you envision for new players. I thought I was joining a game where people had risk and ships got blowed up.


i came to EVE for spaceships exploding and fun, i got grinding, expensive spaceships that were too expensive to risk exploding, sec status grinding, dying constantly and people saying the game is too easy while i barely afford to fly frigates. nerfing high sec to the point where starting off in the game is a struggle and players are forced to subject themselves to the drama queens in null or the constant attacks from the roving gangs of low sec is a terrible idea, if you want to play a game where you blow everything up indiscriminately and constantly, thats fine, but not everyone does, and while making high sec completely safe is a terrible idea, giving players a place where they dont have to be constantly paranoid that everything is important, no excuse for not fitting your god damn hulks already but seriously, you are a minority, not everyone supports the New Order, if you want people to go to null/low then stop trying to force them there and make some ******* incentive, like not killing them constantly and forever

"If you're quitting for the 3rd time you clearly ain't quitting" - Chribba
Dante Uisen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#74 - 2013-02-08 13:43:16 UTC
Vin King wrote:
Any real new player has to want to afk mine ice, because new players need to supply the fuel market. That's their only purpose. No new player is allowed to have any sort of fun.


The stench of alt posting has just gotten even fouler.
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#75 - 2013-02-08 13:49:20 UTC
Yes only an ALT would use sarcasm EvilEvilEvilEvil
Vin King
State War Academy
Caldari State
#76 - 2013-02-08 13:51:05 UTC
Zol Interbottom wrote:
...while making high sec completely safe is a terrible idea, giving players a place where they dont have to be constantly paranoid that everything is important, no excuse for not fitting your god damn hulks already but seriously, you are a minority, not everyone supports the New Order, if you want people to go to null/low then stop trying to force them there and make some ******* incentive, like not killing them constantly and forever


His proposals do in fact take account that new players need a safe-ish environment to play around in. That's what his proposal for the purpose of HighSec is. HighSec remains a safer place for new characters to stumble around. By taking away some of the incentive to stay in HighSec, and increasing the reward for going into LowSec, LowSec also becomes safer, because more people are working to make LowSec stable. His proposal isn't to throw everyone into LowSec as it is today.

Dante Uisen wrote:

The stench of alt posting has just gotten even fouler.


Confirming Dante Uisen is my alt.

Benny Ohu wrote:
Yes only an ALT would use sarcasm EvilEvilEvilEvil


New players would NEVER use sarcasm. NEVER.

Proud member of the New Order of HighSec
Zol Interbottom
Blimp Requisition Services
#77 - 2013-02-08 14:01:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Zol Interbottom
Vin King wrote:
Zol Interbottom wrote:
...while making high sec completely safe is a terrible idea, giving players a place where they dont have to be constantly paranoid that everything is important, no excuse for not fitting your god damn hulks already but seriously, you are a minority, not everyone supports the New Order, if you want people to go to null/low then stop trying to force them there and make some ******* incentive, like not killing them constantly and forever


His proposals do in fact take account that new players need a safe-ish environment to play around in. That's what his proposal for the purpose of HighSec is. HighSec remains a safer place for new characters to stumble around. By taking away some of the incentive to stay in HighSec, and increasing the reward for going into LowSec, LowSec also becomes safer, because more people are working to make LowSec stable. His proposal isn't to throw everyone into LowSec as it is today.

.


no his proposal is to throw out all PVE activities besides 2 types of ore and L1 and L2 missions, THATS his proposal for high sec

"If you're quitting for the 3rd time you clearly ain't quitting" - Chribba
Vin King
State War Academy
Caldari State
#78 - 2013-02-08 14:03:39 UTC
Zol Interbottom wrote:

no his proposal is to through out all PVE activities besides 2 types of ore and L1 and L2 missions, THATS his proposal for high sec


I'm not sure how many new players are looking for L3 missions to run while expecting to be 100% safe.

Proud member of the New Order of HighSec
Zol Interbottom
Blimp Requisition Services
#79 - 2013-02-08 14:08:58 UTC
Vin King wrote:
Zol Interbottom wrote:

no his proposal is to through out all PVE activities besides 2 types of ore and L1 and L2 missions, THATS his proposal for high sec


I'm not sure how many new players are looking for L3 missions to run while expecting to be 100% safe.


im not sure how many new players just bought their first ship that can actually run a L3 and dont want it instantly blow up when they jump through a gatecamp one jump from the agent

"If you're quitting for the 3rd time you clearly ain't quitting" - Chribba
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#80 - 2013-02-08 15:12:52 UTC
How many of these people complaining that James statements are "too extreme" also complained about the statements about making all pvp in highsec consensual only made by trebor, et al?

Oh, none of them.

Funny that.