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acceptable way to "scam" character transfers ?

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Taqis
Budget Burials Inc
#1 - 2013-02-08 09:04:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Taqis
heard it from a mate, and just wondering if this is an acceptable practice :

- list a character for sale, mention the hugely expensive HG slave and crystal clones you have ( rule 6 of character transfers : you can mention the implants ). Do NOT mention they are in deep nullsec, in a station whose owner does not accept new corp members or has a corp where you cannot join because you dont speak taiwanese etc. - anyways, somewhere where you cannot ( or it is REALLY difficult and risky to ) take them out anymore.

- jump into the inexpensive clone you have in hisec. Mention the "location the character is in hisec" ( rule 22 of character transfers states you have to mention the location ).

Get a good price considering the clones implants.
SegaPhoenix
Chicks on Speed
#2 - 2013-02-08 09:05:16 UTC
Buhhdust Princess
Mind Games.
Suddenly Spaceships.
#3 - 2013-02-08 09:06:18 UTC
Technically not scamming, because the implants are still there, so they are still paying a proper price for everything.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#4 - 2013-02-08 09:07:24 UTC  |  Edited by: RubyPorto
SegaPhoenix wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6369&find=unread


See rule number 17


I think the point is that this is not a Scam.

The character is exactly as advertised. Also, you (as the seller) don't really benefit unduly.

Now I've just got something to remember to ask next time I buy a character.

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Taqis
Budget Burials Inc
#5 - 2013-02-08 09:08:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Taqis
SegaPhoenix wrote:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=6369&find=unread
See rule number 17


yeah, the question is does this qualify as a "scam" ? How do you tell a scam from a "not my fault you didnt ask" - situation ?

And, even if you ask, is he forced by any rule to tell you the truth ?
Benny Ohu
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2013-02-08 09:15:32 UTC
you should make a petition and ask a gm

but i wouldn't screw around otherwise, some eve rules are enforced as to the spirit of the rule as opposed to the letter, and i reckon non-game-mechanic things like character transfers sound like they fall into that category
Ai Shun
#7 - 2013-02-08 09:23:40 UTC
Taqis wrote:
Get a good price considering the clones implants.


This sounds a bit like sending yourself 100,000 ISK and promising yourself you'll double it; then keeping it instead.
GM Lelouch
Game Masters
C C P Alliance
#8 - 2013-02-08 09:49:52 UTC
Don't do this. Thanks in advance!

Best regards, Lead GM Lelouch CCP Customer Support | EVE Online | DUST 514
Sergeant Acht Scultz
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#9 - 2013-02-08 10:10:39 UTC
GM Lelouch wrote:
Don't do this.


I like that naughty strabismus in your look Lol

removed inappropriate ASCII art signature - CCP Eterne
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#10 - 2013-02-08 11:08:26 UTC
Taqis wrote:
heard it from a mate, and just wondering if this is an acceptable practice :

- list a character for sale, mention the hugely expensive HG slave and crystal clones you have ( rule 6 of character transfers : you can mention the implants ). Do NOT mention they are in deep nullsec, in a station whose owner does not accept new corp members or has a corp where you cannot join because you dont speak taiwanese etc. - anyways, somewhere where you cannot ( or it is REALLY difficult and risky to ) take them out anymore.

- jump into the inexpensive clone you have in hisec. Mention the "location the character is in hisec" ( rule 22 of character transfers states you have to mention the location ).

Get a good price considering the clones implants.

I can't believe that you don't see the obvious there.

You tell him you have implants. It's obvious that it's implied that the implants are in the current clone.
There is no reason to believe otherwise ! ... and there's the catch already,
because then returning "you didn't ask if they were in the current, active, clone" makes you look like an ass.

There is *no* way nobody can see that you intentionally were trying to screw the person.
Polly Oxford
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#11 - 2013-02-08 12:17:36 UTC
You realise that people have more than one set of implants, right?

Anyway, not really a scam. There's nothing to gain from doing it besides tears. So just ask where the clone is.
Vera Algaert
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2013-02-08 12:38:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Vera Algaert
I don't see the big issue, nothing stops you from jumping to that clone and undocking.

If you are afraid of losing your implants then get someone to sell you a ship via contracts locally.

People generally don't anchor bubbles on their home station's undock and you should be able to undock safely just after downtime (or whenever else the system is empty for a minute or two).

Have an alt bring you a covops or t3 if you couldn't buy one locally and give it to your expensive clone at a safespot.

Lots of fuzz about nothing.

.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2013-02-08 12:47:05 UTC
Polly Oxford wrote:
You realise that people have more than one set of implants, right?

Anyway, not really a scam. There's nothing to gain from doing it besides tears. So just ask where the clone is.

The point!
The clone with the implants is in a station in territory
which has a high chance of losing said clone as soon as he undocks!
Furthermore, the buyer didnt actually get what he paid for!
A clone with implants in highsec!

Saying "he didnt ask" is bullshit. The buyer was *mislead*!

The buyer now feels screwed and spreads the word!
Its bad for character trading business as a whole,
especially considering that CCP takes that part of their income pretty seriously...
Dante Uisen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2013-02-08 13:01:44 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
The clone with the implants is in a station in territory which has a high chance of losing said clone as soon as he undocks!


You would probably be able to get a GM to move you to hi-sec if you explained the situation.

Solstice Project wrote:
Its bad for character trading business as a whole, especially considering that CCP takes that part of their income pretty seriously.


Scamming and eve do go hand in hand, but so does RMT and trading characters. Being able to sell characters legally using a reliable service, is a good thing.
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2013-02-08 13:11:46 UTC
Dante Uisen wrote:
Solstice Project wrote:
The clone with the implants is in a station in territory which has a high chance of losing said clone as soon as he undocks!


You would probably be able to get a GM to move you to hi-sec if you explained the situation.

Solstice Project wrote:
Its bad for character trading business as a whole, especially considering that CCP takes that part of their income pretty seriously.


Scamming and eve do go hand in hand, but so does RMT and trading characters. Being able to sell characters legally using a reliable service, is a good thing.

I agree with relocation.
Scamming in chartrades is a nogo though, as CCP says.

The buyer is being mislead and that will hurt business,
especially because CCP forbids chartradescams.
Now try feeling how the buyer feels,
with the added belief that CCP guarantees that chartrades are legit business.

Its no good, no matter how the seller tries to rationalize it.
Tanaka Aiko
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2013-02-08 13:14:27 UTC
If seller still live on the faraway nullsec where are the expensives implants, he could track the guy and be ready to get a nice pod kill when he try to get out (or tell friends they should check this guy).
Would someone says getting a kill with billions in implants is "nothing" ?
Jason Xado
Doomheim
#17 - 2013-02-08 13:20:26 UTC
Tanaka Aiko wrote:
If seller still live on the faraway nullsec where are the expensives implants, he could track the guy and be ready to get a nice pod kill when he try to get out (or tell friends they should check this guy).
Would someone says getting a kill with billions in implants is "nothing" ?


I would say it is nothing. I never quite understood the fascination with kill mails. To each his own I suppose :-)
Solstice Project
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-02-08 13:31:57 UTC
Jason Xado wrote:
Tanaka Aiko wrote:
If seller still live on the faraway nullsec where are the expensives implants, he could track the guy and be ready to get a nice pod kill when he try to get out (or tell friends they should check this guy).
Would someone says getting a kill with billions in implants is "nothing" ?


I would say it is nothing. I never quite understood the fascination with kill mails. To each his own I suppose :-)

Of course you say that, because you ignore the context.
You would feel different if it was you getting screwed.
(no, of course not... right?)
Dante Uisen
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-02-08 13:35:53 UTC
Tanaka Aiko wrote:
Would someone says getting a kill with billions in implants is "nothing" ?


While it would be a lot easier to get the kill in null, it would also be possible in hi-sec, the key element is that you know the character has the implants.
Jason Xado
Doomheim
#20 - 2013-02-08 13:44:51 UTC
Solstice Project wrote:
Jason Xado wrote:
Tanaka Aiko wrote:
If seller still live on the faraway nullsec where are the expensives implants, he could track the guy and be ready to get a nice pod kill when he try to get out (or tell friends they should check this guy).
Would someone says getting a kill with billions in implants is "nothing" ?


I would say it is nothing. I never quite understood the fascination with kill mails. To each his own I suppose :-)

Of course you say that, because you ignore the context.
You would feel different if it was you getting screwed.
(no, of course not... right?)


My apologies I think I didn't say that clearly. What I mean is the kill would be nothing for the scammer as a kill mail has no value, in my opinion. It certainly would be something for the other guy. Sorry, didn't mean to confuse.
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