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PI production for p0 -> p2 on single planet

Author
Renis Vaille
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#1 - 2012-11-28 17:12:38 UTC
All,

I have searched the forums and other sites numerous times for information on p0 -> p2 production on a single planet and I have found much information. However, I will obtain Command Center Upgrade level 4 in 2 days and I was wondering if a highsec setup like this would work for someone with only Command Center Upgrade level 4 (as my powergrid can't handle this on level 3 for sure):

1 x Launchpad
2 x ECU
4 x Basic Processing Facility
2 x Advanced Processing Facility

with everything being routed through the launchpad for storage. Keep in mind this is for highsec (0.5 - 0.7) systems. I want to make sure before I invest in everything that this will work with only CC Upgrade lvl 4 as I have been having powergrid issues. I'm hoping that this setup can produce me something like 10 p2 items per hour or so.

Thanks for any help you can give me.
Bugsy VanHalen
Society of lost Souls
#2 - 2012-11-28 17:28:56 UTC
This can be very tricky in high sec as you need 6000 units per hour of P0 per P1 factory. You need to keep in mind it is not just the ECU you have to run. but there is extra demand for each head the ECU has out. Some planets this is possible, but usually you will have to drop down to:

1 x Launchpad
2 x ECU
2 x Basic Processing Facility
1 x Advanced Processing Facility

In order to have enough capacity for extractor heads to keep up with the 6000 units per hour. It is very difficult to pull in 12000 units per hour from each ECU and have enough power grid for 4 basic and two advanced factories. You will need CC5 to pull this off on most high sec planets.
TriadSte
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2012-11-28 17:58:04 UTC
My advice is - forget about PI.

CCP broke PI about a year ago. The passive income is very very low and not worth the time.

Once upon a time you could make tens - hundreds of million if not billions per week with PI.

CCP then made it where you have to move extracter heads around to get a decent yeild.

Its not worth the time. You can instead use that time and run like 1 mission lol and make the same mount.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#4 - 2012-11-28 18:05:25 UTC
Do it in Low Sec and you'll be fine.

That setup in High will be extremely low output even with Com Center V.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Matalino
#5 - 2012-11-28 18:27:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Matalino
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Do it in Low Sec and you'll be fine.
This! There is still plenty of ISK to be made from PI.

Here is the setup that I use for P0->P2

1 x Launch Pad
3 x Storage Facility
6 x Basic Industry Facility
2 x Advanced Industry Facility
1 x Extractor Control Unit

I have found that running two ECUs takes far too much PG. It is more efficient to run one and alternate between resource types.

With Command Center Upgrades V, I can place the ECU anywhere on a small/medium sized planet and still link it back to main complexe; this allows me to take advantage of the best hot spots. The Storage Facilities and extra BIFs allow me to buffer plenty of P1's so that I can alternate the extractor between the two resources while still keeping the AIFs busy. This setup gives me enough flexiblity that I can miss a few days now and then without reducing my P2 output.

You can adjust the number of storage units and BIFs based on your powergrid limitations. If you use a blockade runner, you can operate in low sec with very little risk.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2012-11-28 18:39:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Styth spiting
Renis Vaille wrote:
All,

I have searched the forums and other sites numerous times for information on p0 -> p2 production on a single planet and I have found much information. However, I will obtain Command Center Upgrade level 4 in 2 days and I was wondering if a highsec setup like this would work for someone with only Command Center Upgrade level 4 (as my powergrid can't handle this on level 3 for sure):

1 x Launchpad
2 x ECU
4 x Basic Processing Facility
2 x Advanced Processing Facility

with everything being routed through the launchpad for storage. Keep in mind this is for highsec (0.5 - 0.7) systems. I want to make sure before I invest in everything that this will work with only CC Upgrade lvl 4 as I have been having powergrid issues. I'm hoping that this setup can produce me something like 10 p2 items per hour or so.

Thanks for any help you can give me.


All of my accounts that extract PI materials only have CC IV (50 planets) and do P2 production and about 1/2 of them.

Do not waste your time trying to use 2 ECU's, all that you will do is negatively impact both material extractions and your ability to reach higher yield material spots (and hot spots) on the planet.

There is only one time you should ever have 2 ECU's on a planet, and that is when you have the available power after setting up your first ECU (with 10 heads), and have enough processors for the material that is output. Generally speaking the only time I will ever use a second ECU for example is on some lava planets that have no silo, 4 - 6 processors and have enough power to setup a second ECU (normally with only 2 heads after maxing power), and even then I set it directly beside the first ECU and extract the same material (or by my silo/processors if there is a descent spot requiring nearly no link cost).

Instead what you want to do is run several day cycles for each P1 material, and then switch to the 2nd P1 material.

Not only will you be able to extract much higher amounts of P1, but the additional power will allow you to place more processors ((both basic and advanced).

Here is why this is a much better solution.

Your setup.
Extracting P0 at 12,000 per hour making 80 units per hour of P1 1 of 2.
Extracting P0 at 12,000 per hour making 80 units per hour of P1 2 of 2.
manufacturing 5 units of P2 material.

6 days, 24 hour cycles will yield:
0 units of P1 1 of 2
0 units of P1 2 of 2
720 units of P2


3 day cycling of P0 extraction and P1 manufacturing
Day 1 - 3 extracting P0 at 36,000 per hour making 240 units per hour of P1 1 of 2
Day 4 - 6 extracting P0 at 36,000 per hour making 240 units per hour of P1 2 of 2
manufacturing of 10 unites of P2 material, with enough material for an additional 5 (assuming only 2 advanced factories).

6 days, 24 hour cycles will yield:
5760 units of P1 1 of 2
5760 units of P1 2 of 2
1440 units of P2


Because on the initial 1 - 3 days you don't have both P1 materials you will have 3 days without P2 production. But once you start the 2nd cycle you will have enough of both P1's to have continual 24 hour P2 manufacturing. In fact you will have so much left over material you can export the additional materials, or place a 3rd factory (which is paid off after 5 hours from the P2 it makes).


Now naturally with this setup you might have to run an ECU for 5 days, sometimes 1 day, it depends on what you're extracting, planet type / size / number of other players, sec status, etc. But it is very simple to have a constant 24 hours of P2 manufacturing.

Why is this setup better?
Requires less maintenance and time then the 2 ECU's setups.
You can easily double your yields and T2 manufacturing
Lots of additional power grid available allowing you to reach further materials on planet
Generates you a ton of additional isk.
Does not require CCV to do.
By doing 1 material at a time and cycling every few days you will naturally cause the planet to contiguously create hot spots and replenish the precious material you were extracting.


And finally, the best skill you can train to help your planets is Advanced planetlogy IV, which requires planetlogy V. These will dramatically increase the accuracy of the data (colors) displayed when surveying a planet for materials, and removes more deviation of how accurate what you are seeing compared to where the materials actually are. It also displays more hot spots, which may not be visible to other players on your planet.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#7 - 2012-11-28 18:43:08 UTC
I honestly found it a lot simpler to do only P1 on each planet, and have a dedicated P2 > P4 Factory Planet on a Barren or Temperate.

This will not only increase the amount of P1 you pull per planet, ipso facto you will get more P2.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Sola Mercury
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#8 - 2012-11-30 09:45:34 UTC
Extracting high value resources like prec. metals in high sec is rarely effective.
So I would consider to extract the abundant resource and buy and import the rare.
Denal Umbra
Coffee Hub
#9 - 2012-11-30 11:16:58 UTC
Only a very select few planets can handle a setup you posted and still be 'feasible' (24h+ program times) and even if you do manage to find those planets, the resources will be depleted quite fast and you need to move around the heads a lot. The option that Styth spiting posted is probably one of the best for high/low sec p2 production. It's tedious, and might bore you out fast but it's quite good isk.

5 planets -> 2 p2 factories each -> 10 p2 factories producing non-stop all month long. Assuming coolant / EU that is roughly 300-400m per month. I'd like to see someone make that much isk from 60 minutes of missioning (includes hauling + pi management).
Captain Shikine
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2013-02-02 14:20:48 UTC
Matalino wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
Do it in Low Sec and you'll be fine.
This! There is still plenty of ISK to be made from PI.

Here is the setup that I use for P0->P2

1 x Launch Pad
3 x Storage Facility
6 x Basic Industry Facility
2 x Advanced Industry Facility
1 x Extractor Control Unit

I have found that running two ECUs takes far too much PG. It is more efficient to run one and alternate between resource types.

With Command Center Upgrades V, I can place the ECU anywhere on a small/medium sized planet and still link it back to main complexe; this allows me to take advantage of the best hot spots. The Storage Facilities and extra BIFs allow me to buffer plenty of P1's so that I can alternate the extractor between the two resources while still keeping the AIFs busy. This setup gives me enough flexiblity that I can miss a few days now and then without reducing my P2 output.

You can adjust the number of storage units and BIFs based on your powergrid limitations. If you use a blockade runner, you can operate in low sec with very little risk.



Hi,

I Find there are some P1s can make more profit Than P2s, Is that right?

So I am curious why there are so many people still making P2s.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#11 - 2013-02-02 14:30:08 UTC
BTW, thread was 60 days dead and it's against Forum rules to necro like this, but whatever.

Anyway, your statement is probably true. when PI started I remember the 2 P1 components of Guidance Systems were each worth as much as a Guidance System itself.

I doubt anything that extreme is occurring now, but it does happen. But I make The P2's for POS Fuel manufacture for my own use so I don't really care how they are doing market wise. I tend to have a lot of leftover Precious and Toxic, so lately I have been making Enriched Uranium as it is having a strangely high spike right now. It's just not worth it to me to track all the individual P1's prices and change or even move planets. I gave up on EVE as a 2nd Job quite awhile ago. Much more enjoyable.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882

Conar
My Wormhole Hurts
#12 - 2013-02-05 18:02:15 UTC
Renis Vaille wrote:
All,

I have searched the forums and other sites numerous times for information on p0 -> p2 production on a single planet and I have found much information. However, I will obtain Command Center Upgrade level 4 in 2 days and I was wondering if a highsec setup like this would work for someone with only Command Center Upgrade level 4 (as my powergrid can't handle this on level 3 for sure):

1 x Launchpad
2 x ECU
4 x Basic Processing Facility
2 x Advanced Processing Facility

with everything being routed through the launchpad for storage. Keep in mind this is for highsec (0.5 - 0.7) systems. I want to make sure before I invest in everything that this will work with only CC Upgrade lvl 4 as I have been having powergrid issues. I'm hoping that this setup can produce me something like 10 p2 items per hour or so.

Thanks for any help you can give me.


CC Upgrades to level 5, this is what I do across all of my PI :

1 x Launchpad
2 x ECU (4 heads each)
8 x Basic Processing Facility
2 x Advanced Processing Facility

Doing PI in High sec is a joke. Between the crap planets and the taxes, you loose enough to hate having to even manage this. Null or low sec (or WH) is the only place I would even consider doing PI. Better planets and you can install your own POCO's.

I mange extractions to keep everything running. If I had control of several planets I might overproduce the p1 and throw it on a factory planet.


Conar 07
Gizznitt Malikite
Agony Unleashed
Agony Empire
#13 - 2013-02-05 19:25:05 UTC

Meh... there's lots of random advice... I don't claim to be a pro, but I run PI with two toons and make about 1.5-3m isk / day / planet.... in nullsec...

I run complete P0-P2 chains with the following setup on my CCU IV toon:

2x ECU
3x Adv Proc
6x Baic Proc
Launchpad
6-7 Extractor Heads...

With CCU IV, on some planets I struggle to keep the thrid P0-P2 Chain operational fulltime...

With my CCU V toon.... I get 2 more Extractor Heads and a Storage Silo to easily keep all three P0-P2 chains running full time, and the Storage lets me run it much longer between logistcs runs from the planet...

In highsec, with only 2x P0-P2 chains, you get 4 more Extractor Heads.... If you can't pull 12000 P0 materials x2 using 10 heads, then highsec just sucks for PI.... go to lowsec!

Termy Rockling
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#14 - 2013-02-06 09:38:07 UTC
Captain Shikine wrote:
I Find there are some P1s can make more profit Than P2s, Is that right?

So I am curious why there are so many people still making P2s.


P2 is compressed more so less hauling.
Backfyre
Hohmann Transfer
#15 - 2013-02-06 17:37:36 UTC
/agree with those saying to go to lowsec.

Since you will have to haul anyway, why not split it among 2 planets and have each planet just do 1 P1 resource. Every few days you then haul from one to the other and do the P2 on the planet which is richer in resource (use fewer heads).

cloak at safe spot and move PI to customs offices -> Warp to planet x to pick up P1 -> warp to planet y and drop off P1 and pick up P2 -> cloak up at safe spot and complete transfer to planets

There are many ways to set up PI. It all depends upon how much of your play time you want to allocate. My personal preference is less time.
Ginger Barbarella
#16 - 2013-02-06 21:51:54 UTC
My only comments would be to ignore the single-planet stuff, since you'll be limiting yourself on production/profit. It's easy to get to 5 planets, and you can easily do (for example) a Robotics production in a single system, generating a decent amount of isk for your trouble (unless you plan to use for manufacturing/POS). I have two toons generating enough Robotics for large POS fuel and production of T2 modules monthly to keep me happy. Other toons generate other fuel and manufacturing products as needed.

Ignoring PI is useful advice only if station or gate camping is your idea of seriously good timez.

"Blow it all on Quafe and strippers." --- Sorlac

Sugar Bunny InSpace
Toward the Terra
#17 - 2013-02-07 01:00:43 UTC
Styth spiting wrote:
...

Here is why this is a much better solution.

Your setup.
Extracting P0 at 12,000 per hour making 80 units per hour of P1 1 of 2.
Extracting P0 at 12,000 per hour making 80 units per hour of P1 2 of 2.
manufacturing 5 units of P2 material.

6 days, 24 hour cycles will yield:
0 units of P1 1 of 2
0 units of P1 2 of 2
720 units of P2


3 day cycling of P0 extraction and P1 manufacturing
Day 1 - 3 extracting P0 at 36,000 per hour making 240 units per hour of P1 1 of 2
Day 4 - 6 extracting P0 at 36,000 per hour making 240 units per hour of P1 2 of 2
manufacturing of 10 unites of P2 material, with enough material for an additional 5 (assuming only 2 advanced factories).

6 days, 24 hour cycles will yield:
5760 units of P1 1 of 2
5760 units of P1 2 of 2
1440 units of P2


Because on the initial 1 - 3 days you don't have both P1 materials you will have 3 days without P2 production. But once you start the 2nd cycle you will have enough of both P1's to have continual 24 hour P2 manufacturing. In fact you will have so much left over material you can export the additional materials, or place a 3rd factory (which is paid off after 5 hours from the P2 it makes).


Now naturally with this setup you might have to run an ECU for 5 days, sometimes 1 day, it depends on what you're extracting, planet type / size / number of other players, sec status, etc. But it is very simple to have a constant 24 hours of P2 manufacturing.

Why is this setup better?
Requires less maintenance and time then the 2 ECU's setups.
You can easily double your yields and T2 manufacturing
Lots of additional power grid available allowing you to reach further materials on planet
Generates you a ton of additional isk.
Does not require CCV to do.
By doing 1 material at a time and cycling every few days you will naturally cause the planet to contiguously create hot spots and replenish the precious material you were extracting.
....
Styth could you pls explain a bit more in detail how this setup requires less maintenance time ? I'm weary curious about this example.
Styth spiting
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#18 - 2013-02-08 04:32:21 UTC
Sugar Bunny InSpace wrote:
Styth could you pls explain a bit more in detail how this setup requires less maintenance time ? I'm weary curious about this example.


One of the best things with PI is that you can make some pretty descent isk with minimal effort. But it can also be a huge time sink if you do not watch out. You can spend 5 minutes a day on your planets or spend 30 minutes on them each day to increase your daily yields. This is something you should always consider and something I point out to all the people I've helped with PI. You need to juggle between higher yields per day vs less yield and time, which is very important when you consider the isk/hour you are generating.

That being said, with the numbers I listed above you can see the staggered single extraction setup will yield more over time. The reason it requires less maintenance is because when using a dual extractor setup you have 2x the number of extractor control units you will need to re-position as the materials are extracted at relocate around the planet. It also means that each day when you restart each ECU you need to check each extractor, see how much each one will be extracting, re-position each ECU extractor heads for more or less of each material type so you are maintaining the yields needed for your factories and even then if your planetlogy skills are low the deviation of the materials may be increasingly far off and you'll need to wait, re-stop / re-position and restart the ECU(s) and re-check the values.

For example here are the steps for 1 ECU setup
1. Scan for material, find position.
2. Place ECU, set link (save)
3. Set heads
4. Route (save).
5. And you're done, move on to the next planet.

For 2 ECU setup
1. Scan material 1, find position
2. Place ECU 1, set link (save)
3. Scan material 2, find position
4. Place ECU, set link (save)
5. Check power/CPU and verify how many extractor heads you can setup.
6. Place 5 extractor heads for ECU 1, position, write down value
7. Place 5 extractor heads for ECU 2, position, write down value
8. "do maths" to determine how many extractor heads you will need for each ECU.
9. Place ECU 1 extracor heads, confirm values, do math (save).
10. Route ECU 1 (save).
11. Place ECU 2 extracor heads, confirm values, do math (save).
12. Route ECU 2 (save).
13. Re-postion heads if needed.
14. And you're done. Move on to the next planet.

And for the daily maintenance for an 1 ECU setup.
1. Double click ECU (opens ECU control window).
2. Re-position if needed, or re-position heads.
3. Save, move to next planet.

Now if you have enough P1 materials saved up and want to switch to the second P2.
Follow steps 1 - 4 above.
5. Set basic factories for the new material.
6. Save and you're done (because all the P1 material routes will already be saved for the P2 advanced factories).

And finally if you are maintaining a 2 ECU setup
1. Double click ECU 1, view numbers, do math.
2. Double click ECU 2, view numbers, do match.
3. Re-position ECU 1 if needed.
4. Re-position ECU 2 if needed.
5. Move ECU 1 heads around based on new values.
6. Move ECU 2 heads around based on new values.
7. Confirm numbers are correct after save.
8 Wait and re-position heads to match factory requirements.

So as you can see there is far more work involved with 2 ECU's, with much less returns. More work, less isk.
Sugar Bunny InSpace
Toward the Terra
#19 - 2013-02-08 09:44:41 UTC
I see your point now. There rly wouldn't be a surplus of one material with this setup.

I newer tried to be efficient, and always got about 13% more of one material. For months I never reallocated the ECUs. In the end I just sold the P2 and the P1 that was piling up. In my WH system the overall extraction from day 1 dropped by 20%(2 day programs).

The problem arises with 60+ planets.

In my case I spend time on restarting 2x ECUs only. Newer moving heads or rebuilding ECUs. The structures where on high yield planets and as I said, once I hit the -20% extraction it never changed much afterwards.


I might try your 1 ECU approach. With my 0% TAX rate I could store all the P1(a) in the POCO for over 2 weeks before switching to P1(b). No P1 leftovers in this case. But I would also need to reprogram the basic processors every time I switch between P1(a) and P1(b).
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
#20 - 2013-02-10 00:19:23 UTC
There are ways to get a decent ISK per hour with P1 only, with 2 days cycles, even in hi sec.

It involves finding the right planets (most suck but some are AS good as the low sec average), the right region and knowing what stuff is needed and knowing that some times 3 times the quantity yields more than an apparently higher ISK per unit for lower quantities.

Currently managing 88 planets but can burst to 103 if needed. Shocked
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