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Dev blog: The great ship skill change of summer 2013

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Arinyes Cantari
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#321 - 2013-02-07 21:52:36 UTC
Say, uh... I noticed that at freighters, it says that now ADVANCED Spaceship Command is required at level 5, but if you look at the before and after skilltrees, there isn't any difference. You need Spaceship Command 5 and Advanced Spaceship Command 1 to fly freighters now and apparently after the change.

Figure there'll be some people letting out a sigh of relief ;P
Flying Apocalypse
#322 - 2013-02-07 21:56:00 UTC
Regarding the part of
Carriers and Supercarriers:

Racial Carrier requirements on the Archon, Wyvern, Nyx and Hel have been reduced from 3 to 1
Capital Ships requirement on all Carriers and Supercarriers increased from 3 to 4
All racial Battleship requirements on Carriers and Supercarriers reduced from 5 to 3
Adding the Jump Fuel Conservation skill at 4 as prerequisite
Adding the Jump Drive Calibration skill at 3 as prerequisite (which itself requires the Jump Drive Operation skill trained at 5)

(And it's fancy archon picture with training times)

Will carriers be changed to have all those jump drive skills neccesary as well? Or just supercarriers? Because I feel that normal carriers don't require all those extra jump drive skills, while they do feel kinda, needed, for supercarriers. Seeing how dreads don't require them either.

For some reason I can't delete my signature o.o
Kalenn Istarion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#323 - 2013-02-07 21:58:37 UTC  |  Edited by: Kalenn Istarion
Yusef Yeasef Yosef wrote:
Sentient Blade wrote:
*Chokes*..

All command links to 5 to use Command Ships? Even if they're completely irrelevant to the ship being flown?



You do not need the command links to V but the basic Warfare Skills to V.


The skills relevant to the command links are the specialist skills, not the basic ones.

For example,

you need Armored Wafare V, not Armored Wafare Specialist V.
you need Information Warfare V, not Information Warfare Specialist V.
you need Siege Warfare V, not Siege Warfare Specialist V.
you need Skirmish Warfare V, not Skirmish Warfare Specialist V.
you need Warfare Link Specilst IV.



Perhaps, but that's still 40+ days of training on what are likely unoptimized attributes for many people.

I'm going to give this a week to settle out and then start training all the T2 ship skills that are down a tree from another T2 skill, as it looks like, on balance, that it will be harder to get many of them following the changes.

Try Harder.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#324 - 2013-02-07 21:58:43 UTC
Arinyes Cantari wrote:
Say, uh... I noticed that at freighters, it says that now ADVANCED Spaceship Command is required at level 5, but if you look at the before and after skilltrees, there isn't any difference. You need Spaceship Command 5 and Advanced Spaceship Command 1 to fly freighters now and apparently after the change.

Figure there'll be some people letting out a sigh of relief ;P

Look at the primary after closely. The racial freighters will require Adv spaceship command. For current freighter pilots this is a non issue though, as they already have their racial freighter(s) injected.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#325 - 2013-02-07 21:59:21 UTC
Arinyes Cantari wrote:
Say, uh... I noticed that at freighters, it says that now ADVANCED Spaceship Command is required at level 5, but if you look at the before and after skilltrees, there isn't any difference. You need Spaceship Command 5 and Advanced Spaceship Command 1 to fly freighters now and apparently after the change.

Figure there'll be some people letting out a sigh of relief ;P

There WOULD be people letting out a sigh of relief, if they actually understood how skill trees work.
Instead they immediately flood the thread with posts crying about how they won't be able to fly their freighter anymore because they don't have ASC 5.

I fly a HAC. The HAC skill will have Energy Grid Upgrades 5 as a prerequisite, which I really don't ever intend on training.
You don't hear me complaining though, because I know that since I already have the HAC skill trained I'll still be able to fly my Zealot after the skill change.

The only thing I'm worried about is having the ability, should I so choose, to later train HAC 5 without having to train EGU 5.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#326 - 2013-02-07 22:04:39 UTC
Flying Apocalypse wrote:
Regarding the part of
Carriers and Supercarriers:

Racial Carrier requirements on the Archon, Wyvern, Nyx and Hel have been reduced from 3 to 1
Capital Ships requirement on all Carriers and Supercarriers increased from 3 to 4
All racial Battleship requirements on Carriers and Supercarriers reduced from 5 to 3
Adding the Jump Fuel Conservation skill at 4 as prerequisite
Adding the Jump Drive Calibration skill at 3 as prerequisite (which itself requires the Jump Drive Operation skill trained at 5)

(And it's fancy archon picture with training times)

Will carriers be changed to have all those jump drive skills neccesary as well? Or just supercarriers? Because I feel that normal carriers don't require all those extra jump drive skills, while they do feel kinda, needed, for supercarriers. Seeing how dreads don't require them either.

Carriers and supercarriers both use the same skill (racial carrier). Those skills are being changed to require JFC 4 and JDC 3 as prerequisites. Again, if you already have the racial carrier skill, you'll be able to fly the ship without needing to train the jump skills.

There are quite a few (probably most) alliances that require, at the very minimum, JDC 4. If you're planning on using it a lot it pretty much already is a requirement.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Kalenn Istarion
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#327 - 2013-02-07 22:09:14 UTC
Max McKeigh wrote:
Alright, according to evemon and evehq, the current training time to sit a new character in a carrier with cal IV and fuel III, no other skills, just take it to the end of the driveway to get the mail, based on their '20 attribute across the board' model, would be 184-186 days. If their image shows the correct new train time, 146, this means an almost 40 day reduction. Which there is no way to stretch that into 'Similar training times' without suffering severe head trauma.



Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Shhhh

Shh

Try Harder.
Arronicus
State War Academy
Caldari State
#328 - 2013-02-07 22:11:32 UTC
WTS: 45,000 iteron MK IV's as they are now absolutely useless!

JK. About me selling a bunch. They are useless now though.
Flying Apocalypse
#329 - 2013-02-07 22:17:09 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Flying Apocalypse wrote:
Regarding the part of
Carriers and Supercarriers:

Racial Carrier requirements on the Archon, Wyvern, Nyx and Hel have been reduced from 3 to 1
Capital Ships requirement on all Carriers and Supercarriers increased from 3 to 4
All racial Battleship requirements on Carriers and Supercarriers reduced from 5 to 3
Adding the Jump Fuel Conservation skill at 4 as prerequisite
Adding the Jump Drive Calibration skill at 3 as prerequisite (which itself requires the Jump Drive Operation skill trained at 5)

(And it's fancy archon picture with training times)

Will carriers be changed to have all those jump drive skills neccesary as well? Or just supercarriers? Because I feel that normal carriers don't require all those extra jump drive skills, while they do feel kinda, needed, for supercarriers. Seeing how dreads don't require them either.

Carriers and supercarriers both use the same skill (racial carrier). Those skills are being changed to require JFC 4 and JDC 3 as prerequisites. Again, if you already have the racial carrier skill, you'll be able to fly the ship without needing to train the jump skills.

There are quite a few (probably most) alliances that require, at the very minimum, JDC 4. If you're planning on using it a lot it pretty much already is a requirement.


Ah alright, I am not a capital/supercapital pilot myself for now, so I don't know much more of the usual required(asked for) skills in normal capitals beyond stories. So I didn't expect it to be demanded since it sounds more like a skill for supers :) Oh well. Thanks for the answer.

For some reason I can't delete my signature o.o
Deornoth Drake
Vandeo
#330 - 2013-02-07 22:19:28 UTC
Chi'Nane T'Kal wrote:
Deornoth Drake wrote:

I fail to have any idea about that overhaul but given the fact that the skill requirement drops to level 1 for each ship should yield a reimbursement for those who trained a skill to lvl 5 just to be able to get into the Iteron V or any freighter.


What a bunch of crap about the Iteron and reimbursement.

I'm pretty sure that after the tiericide there will be a max cargo variant (with minor differences) for every race. And the cargo size of that max cargo variant will most likely be even MORE skill bassed than it is today.

So in order to have the equivalent of your current Iteron V after the tiericide, you will most likely STILL need that skill at V.

or just hop into an orca
Malakai Asamov
Van Diemen's Demise
Northern Coalition.
#331 - 2013-02-07 22:20:39 UTC
Roughly when is the summer expansion?

Based on the Australian summer surely!

In which case your late Cool
Swidgen
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#332 - 2013-02-07 22:20:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Swidgen
Interesting times. So the "Advanced Spaceship Command" skill continues to be useless at any level below 5 except for freighters which only requir level 1. And for "Jump Drive Operation"... is there any use for it at all before getting it trained to level 5? I guess I dislike skills that provide no tangible benefits as different levels are achieved.
Sara Sue
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#333 - 2013-02-07 22:32:50 UTC
Reducing clone costs for the extra 6.2mil sp that will be added would be nice, already clones cost too much and reduces pvp in smaller ships.
Destoya
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#334 - 2013-02-07 22:40:30 UTC
For all you whining about the 3 weeks you "wasted" on iteron V, I'd like to remind you of the 8m SP of drones that my Nyx cannot use under any circumstance
Buzzmong
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#335 - 2013-02-07 23:12:50 UTC
Looks pretty good, although I'm rather curious as to why CCP have decided level III is the amount to go to the next level of racial ship skills over level IV.

I assume training times, but it just seems like an arbitrary choice as it's IV that marks the boundry between the quickly trained levels I-IV and the much longer train for V.
Rendiff
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#336 - 2013-02-07 23:13:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Rendiff
What's the point of having the Adv Spaceship command skill if the only ships that use the skill require it be at V? If it gives you a bonus to agility, but everyone has to train it to V that means that everyone has the same agility bonus, why bother having it?

Seems to me it'd be better to just give everyone that agility bonus off the bat, or make it usable by other ships.
Ms Michigan
Aviation Professionals for EVE
#337 - 2013-02-07 23:15:45 UTC
(This may have been covered in the 17 pages I didn't read but in case it wasn't specifically...)


CCP DEVS "If you can fly it today you can fly it after."


QUESTION - I noticed the new HIC, and Interdictor skills and command ship skills ..... Does this mean that if we can fly it today, after the patch we will have the new prerequisites given to us? (i.e. Grav. physics 4, information leadership 5, etc etc)
Chi'Nane T'Kal
Interminatus
#338 - 2013-02-07 23:17:50 UTC
One change I certainly do not like is merging the Navigation requirements for carrier into the skill requirements.

This will mess up my planned future skill progression (distant future, admittedly) quite a bit, since I had planned to learn the ship command part of the carrier requirements at the end of a PER/WIL mapping period, then remap for support skills (regular remap available by then) and learn the navigation part there.

That's no longer possible which means postponing carriers by a full year or burning another bonus remap, after the AI patch already ate my first :(.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#339 - 2013-02-07 23:23:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Tyberius Franklin
Ms Michigan wrote:
(This may have been covered in the 17 pages I didn't read but in case it wasn't specifically...)


CCP DEVS "If you can fly it today you can fly it after."


QUESTION - I noticed the new HIC, and Interdictor skills and command ship skills ..... Does this mean that if we can fly it today, after the patch we will have the new prerequisites given to us? (i.e. Grav. physics 4, information leadership 5, etc etc)

No, there is no need to give anything as you have the prereqs for the ship, racial ship V and the T2 ship type skill. Those are the only skills you need to enter the ship.

The rest is only for injecting the skill and apparently training it further, but not flying the ship.
Mirel Dystoph
Perkone
Caldari State
#340 - 2013-02-07 23:31:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Mirel Dystoph
James Amril-Kesh wrote:

The only thing I'm worried about is having the ability, should I so choose, to later train HAC 5 without having to train EGU 5.

And this is an important as fock question.

Do we have to train up the prerequisites of a ship twice just because some at CCP thinks it's cool to screw with the skills around.

"Nothing essential happens in the absence of noise."