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Dev blog: Corporation Recruitment Improvements for Retribution 1.1

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Banedon Runestar
R3PC0N Tech. Industries
Phoenix Stars
#21 - 2013-02-07 17:56:59 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
And can we PLEASE get some more concrete ways to verify roles have been updated properly? Our problem is doing **** like:
"Okay how bout now?"
"Nope"
"Open and close the window?"
"Nope"
"undock and redock?"
"Nope"
"Try a relog?"
"Okay I can get to the hanger now..."

Hanger access and wallet access debugging is a *****...



Without working at CCP and knowing the internal structure that sounds like it's a similar issue to adjusting Active Directory group access permissions. Sometimes they just work the second you click 'OK', other times you have to wait up to 15 minutes. And sometimes the user has to log out so that the permissions to access some file/folder/drive are refreshed properly.

TLDR: It's just how the system works, deal with it.
Marcel Devereux
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#22 - 2013-02-07 18:10:24 UTC
Banedon Runestar wrote:

TLDR: It's just how the system works, deal with it.


Can you actually make it harder? Who wants a system that is easy to understand and use? I will tell you who, n00bs and people with very little time on their hands. Neither of them should be playing this game! That is why things should be more confusing and harder. It will prevent them from joining and sticking around. Here's to bad UX keeping them off our lawn!
Dersen Lowery
The Scope
#23 - 2013-02-07 18:12:39 UTC
Banedon Runestar wrote:
Without working at CCP and knowing the internal structure that sounds like it's a similar issue to adjusting Active Directory group access permissions. Sometimes they just work the second you click 'OK', other times you have to wait up to 15 minutes. And sometimes the user has to log out so that the permissions to access some file/folder/drive are refreshed properly.

TLDR: It's just how the system works, deal with it.


And it would be unreasonable, if not impossible, to have a little notification pop up that says, "you have been assigned role X. It may take 10 or 15 minutes (or logging off and on, or whatever) before the new role takes effect."

It's much more fun to play guess-what-I'm-thinking with permissions systems, right?

Proud founder and member of the Belligerent Desirables.

I voted in CSM X!
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
#24 - 2013-02-07 18:19:02 UTC
What happens if a player gets accepted to join a corporation, then he doesn't accept it in the end but doesn't reject it either... Can he then whenever he may chose click accept and avox the **** out of people? Or does an acceptance auto-expire after 24-72 hours?

Pinky
CCP Fear
C C P
C C P Alliance
#25 - 2013-02-07 18:23:18 UTC
CCP Prism X wrote:
I believe CCP Fear prefers champagne Blink


True story!
CCP Fear
C C P
C C P Alliance
#26 - 2013-02-07 18:25:36 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Fear
Pinky Denmark wrote:
What happens if a player gets accepted to join a corporation, then he doesn't accept it in the end but doesn't reject it either... Can he then whenever he may chose click accept and avox the **** out of people? Or does an acceptance auto-expire after 24-72 hours?

Pinky


Currently the application will wait for the player to accept or withdraw it. But I think this is something we need to address in some fashion. I will bring it up with the team.
Sephira Galamore
Inner Beard Society
Kvitravn.
#27 - 2013-02-07 18:39:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Sephira Galamore
CCP Fear wrote:
Pinky Denmark wrote:
What happens if a player gets accepted to join a corporation, then he doesn't accept it in the end but doesn't reject it either... Can he then whenever he may chose click accept and avox the **** out of people? Or does an acceptance auto-expire after 24-72 hours?

Pinky


Currently the application will wait for the player to accept or withdraw it. But I think this is something we need to address in some fashion. I will bring it up with the team.


I suppose it would be best if the corp can always set it to rejected, even after accepting it. Actually, both sides should be able to switch between the states back and forth until at some point both have accepted it. Or?
Xercodo
Cruor Angelicus
#28 - 2013-02-07 18:57:55 UTC
Pinky Denmark wrote:
What happens if a player gets accepted to join a corporation, then he doesn't accept it in the end but doesn't reject it either... Can he then whenever he may chose click accept and avox the **** out of people? Or does an acceptance auto-expire after 24-72 hours?

Pinky


Oh yeah good idea, the app should totally fall through after a set time to prevent them from coming back and hopping in when you accepted them and forgot about them long ago...


Dersen Lowery that's exactly what I'm talking about! Have like a notification pop up in your mail system that lists when and which roles you gained or lost.

And of course they wouldn't pop up until the roles actually took effect.

The Drake is a Lie
Codie Dunier
Doomheim
#29 - 2013-02-07 19:08:06 UTC
Now all we need is a way for Recruiters to send an invitation to players, which can hold the same information as an Application, and the Recruitment System would be good. Hell, if your Corp/Alliance requires an API-check, just write that in the invitation. There's no actual reason not to let corps extend invitations to people. If people don't want to use it, that's their choice. But letting us who'd use it get this feature would be appreciated by smaller corps trying to establish themselves in their region.
Adrian Dixon
Arbitrary Spaceship Destruction
-affliction-
#30 - 2013-02-07 19:13:25 UTC
Thanks so much for the editable welcome mail. Looking foward to the next improvements :)
Smoking Blunts
ZC Omega
#31 - 2013-02-07 19:22:57 UTC
is there a way to cancel an offer of membership if the corp wants to?

i.e. dude applies, corp accepts, dude dosnt accept offer for a while, corp withdraws offer due to any reason they want

OMG when can i get a pic here
Ivana Twinkle
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#32 - 2013-02-07 19:25:53 UTC
Fix the current interface so that people currently in wardec cooldown or has roles cannot apply.

The way the system works currently, people who are incapable of being accepted into the corp can still apply. Then when we're pushing the buttons, we'll just get a message that the user couldn't join for X reason.
Then we need to deal with a player who just recieved a reject mail with no proper explanation in it.

Preventing the player to apply to corps they are on cooldown for or having active roles would save a lot of grief.
Aryndel Vyst
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#33 - 2013-02-07 19:28:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Aryndel Vyst
Hi, I'm the Auth Director for GoonWaffe, one of the top 3 recruiting corporations in the game. Since you're finally going to edit the horrid recruitment panel here is some feedback I'd like to provide from the personnel manager side.

1. Optional (Emphasis on Optional) Rejection Mail. Some corps have a pretty stringent application policy and it's annoying as heck to follow up with 10 people by sending them evemails with what they messed up. If you are going to do it for approvals, do it for rejections too.
2. Show the name of the person who processed the applcation. You have things like Invited to Join on there. Something like Invited to Join by Aryndel Vyst would be even better.
3. If you're going to create different levels of "invite status" make those either sortable or filterable or better yet have approvals/rejections accessible via API.

From the applicant side:
1. If there are going to be wardec issues don't allow an applicant to apply to that corp
2. If the applicant has roles in their existing corp prevent them from submitting applications to new ones and have them resolve their roles issues first.
Lady Naween
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#34 - 2013-02-07 19:42:21 UTC
squeeeeeee!!! who do i send the naked pictures to? I mean seriously, anything regarding the corp interface (shudder) and recruitment has been needing an overhaul for so long. And this is just awesomesauce!
Kelduum Revaan
The Ebon Hawk
#35 - 2013-02-07 20:05:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Kelduum Revaan
Ivana Twinkle wrote:
Fix the current interface so that people currently in wardec cooldown or has roles cannot apply.
Aryndel Vyst wrote:
1. If there are going to be wardec issues don't allow an applicant to apply to that corp

Existing roles in a corp, war cooldowns or anything else won't make any difference at the moment - they would still need to drop roles and wait any timers out the stasis period before being able to "accept" the offer. Its now moves that notification to the player with the problem though, so they see it, and they have to sort it out.

Your scenario shouldn't exist any more.
Kelduum Revaan
The Ebon Hawk
#36 - 2013-02-07 20:08:20 UTC
Xercodo wrote:
And can we PLEASE get some more concrete ways to verify roles have been updated properly?
It's already there: Right click, Edit Member, view the "Roles Summary". This will show roles from everything, including those inherited by things like titles or director positions.
Ivana Twinkle
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#37 - 2013-02-07 20:13:50 UTC
Kelduum Revaan wrote:
Ivana Twinkle wrote:
Fix the current interface so that people currently in wardec cooldown or has roles cannot apply.
Aryndel Vyst wrote:
1. If there are going to be wardec issues don't allow an applicant to apply to that corp

Existing roles in a corp, war cooldowns or anything else won't make any difference at the moment - they would still need to drop roles and wait any timers out the stasis period before being able to "accept" the offer. Its now moves that notification to the player with the problem though, so they see it, and they have to sort it out.

Your scenario shouldn't exist any more.



It will if we still have to process applications from people that cannot join, even if they get the notification now (which is an improvement IF the guy reads words on his screen - which isn't likely).
Authing people involves a certain degree of background checks and it's a waste of everyones time if they still show up in the application queue while under cooldown/roles.
Somatic Neuron
Masterwork Productions Inc
#38 - 2013-02-07 20:28:24 UTC
How about letting a pilot setup in the character sheet if they are open for recruiting, what their preferences are, and what skills they bring to the table? Then it would be nice to actually be able to search for pilots meeting criteria that we select, and be able to communicate with them.


For example a pilot could set:
Recruiting: Available, Not Available
Prefer: Nullsec, Lowsec, Highsec (all selectable)
Days/Times available: Su-Th 03:00-07:00, Fr-Sa 03:00-08:00
Roles: SubCap PvP, Cap PvP, SuperCap PvP, Mission Runner, Exploration, Mining, Production, Trading, et.al. (all selectable)
AgeGroup: <18, 18+

Then, we could do a search for say, all pilots that are willing to join NullSec, are not currently negative standing to me, at least 30m skill points, Cap PvP, Fridays 04:00,05:00, 06:00, and that pilot would be in a list of many

We could then cherry pick the ones that we want to from the list and send them a generic Recruiting Evemail, telling them a little about our corp/alliance, etc., and ask them to contact us if they are interested.

There could be a Concord fee associated with this, to help stop the spam...
Vigilanta
S0utherN Comfort
#39 - 2013-02-07 20:28:41 UTC
CCP Fear wrote:
Pinky Denmark wrote:
What happens if a player gets accepted to join a corporation, then he doesn't accept it in the end but doesn't reject it either... Can he then whenever he may chose click accept and avox the **** out of people? Or does an acceptance auto-expire after 24-72 hours?

Pinky


Currently the application will wait for the player to accept or withdraw it. But I think this is something we need to address in some fashion. I will bring it up with the team.



Its a bit more than just that. I give you the example of the carefree, **** swinging awoxer, if by chance i hit the wrong button on his application. Under the current mechanic you are telling me there is nothing i can do to withdraw my corps invitation? Mistakes happen, would be nice to be able to correct them before the other player is undocked in space and logged in inside of your corporation.

./ can you create a corporation blocked list, i.e. if certian names are added to it they are unable to apply to corp?
Matthias Duran
Perkone
Caldari State
#40 - 2013-02-07 21:19:29 UTC
Since changes to corp application are being discussed, can we also have a log indicating who accepted which application at what time?

A auto-ban list, similar to the way private chat channels work, would also be nice.