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Attention all miners - if you are ganked, its YOUR OWN FAULT.
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Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
#61 - 2011-10-26 00:30:32 UTC
Karadion wrote:
You fail to understand why the miner's are complaining. They want to run their bots without worrying about getting ganked.


You fail to see why the goons want the miners to complain. They want to run their ratting bots without drawing attention.

internet spaceships

are serious business sir.

and don't forget it
Thomas Abernathy
Fusion Enterprises Ltd
Pandemic Horde
#62 - 2011-10-26 00:35:37 UTC
While counter ganking Goons in Ice belts, I never once saw the cloaker tackle....so really not a valid excuse.
I repeatedly recommended alignment or at least orbiting, so you were moving at all times...but most of them didn't get it....you'd see the brutix or BS on scan, and they wouldn't get moving....no idea what they were thinking....(Only some were bots) Oops

"Fighting CCD since 2139"
Jita Alt666
#63 - 2011-10-26 00:37:29 UTC
The cloaking alt who tackles gets concorded. Most Gankers will simply use it as a warpin.
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#64 - 2011-10-26 00:41:49 UTC
CorpAlt 18368 wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
CorpAlt 18368 wrote:
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
[quote=CorpAlt 18368] With bulkheads and armor rigs on a Hulk, ............



And LOSE the low slots where the MU II Module should be ??? Try Shields next time..........Roll

Uselesssly moving and tricky reallignes (especially with an Orca involved)...Goodl Lord there are better ways.......


You understand that a ship can't lock you the moment it appears on grid, right? It has to exit warp ("land") first.

As far as aligning goes, you understand that this is part of daily life when ratting in 0.0 (at least with missiles) - right? I'm sorry that your AFK/inattentive playstyle is ultimately not working out for you.



If you read my earlier posts I am anyting BUT afk. But you do prove my point as you do refer to ratting in Null where this is indeed a mechanic that must be used.

Unfortunately, we are talking about MINING here btw.

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
Krixtal Icefluxor
INLAND EMPIRE Galactic
#65 - 2011-10-26 00:46:52 UTC
Simetraz wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:


Here's the skinny -

This technique is 100% foolproof - if you are ganked, it is because you were not watching for danger.


All the clicking in the world isn't going to get you out of the belt before you are destroyed.



...neither will ANY tank on the Mack. And this non-static aligning.......Roll

I'm really only paying attention when mining Ice in order to save the Orca !

"He has mounted his hind-legs, and blown crass vapidities through the bowel of his neck."  - Ambrose Bierce on Oscar Wilde's Lecture in San Francisco 1882
MeestaPenni
Mercantile and Stuff
#66 - 2011-10-26 00:50:36 UTC
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Stay aligned while mining?!?!?!

Have you ever even been in a belt never mind actually mined in one?????

******.....come back when you might actually know what you are talking about.


You don't actually start moving towards the celestial....just keep your bow pointed at it while you mine.

****....come back when you might actually know the mechanics.

I am not Prencleeve Grothsmore.
CorpAlt 18368
State War Academy
Caldari State
#67 - 2011-10-26 00:54:39 UTC
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:
If you read my earlier posts I am anyting BUT afk. But you do prove my point as you do refer to ratting in Null where this is indeed a mechanic that must be used.

Unfortunately, we are talking about MINING here btw.


What point do I prove?

Am I proving the point that you have to adjust your tactics when you're mining in hostile space (all of New Eden is hostile space) or that you are stubborn and will continue to lose ships to gankers while under the illusion that tanking and remote reps are a viable counter?
CorpAlt 18368
State War Academy
Caldari State
#68 - 2011-10-26 00:55:21 UTC
MeestaPenni wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Stay aligned while mining?!?!?!

Have you ever even been in a belt never mind actually mined in one?????

******.....come back when you might actually know what you are talking about.


You don't actually start moving towards the celestial....just keep your bow pointed at it while you mine.

****....come back when you might actually know the mechanics.



This is entirely wrong. If you are not moving, it takes just as long to enter warp as it would if your ship was traveling at full speed in the opposite direction.
Captain Megadeath
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2011-10-26 00:56:26 UTC
CorpAlt 18368 wrote:
MeestaPenni wrote:
Desert Ice78 wrote:
Stay aligned while mining?!?!?!

Have you ever even been in a belt never mind actually mined in one?????

******.....come back when you might actually know what you are talking about.


You don't actually start moving towards the celestial....just keep your bow pointed at it while you mine.

****....come back when you might actually know the mechanics.



This is entirely wrong. If you are not moving, it takes just as long to enter warp as it would if your ship was traveling at full speed in the opposite direction.



This!
Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#70 - 2011-10-26 00:58:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Kidd
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:


All miners and missioners have an incredibly powerful defense tool - its called a directional scanner. Every ship has one, this is piloting 101 here, nothing complicated.

The directional scanner tells you who is nearby - if you're mining in highsec, there should not be Brutixes or Thrasher gangs nearby.


Yes, because in highly populated systems there's no chance that you'll ever see a brutix or thrasher, much less multiple ships on dscan. Roll

Quote:

While mining, stay aligned, and hit your scanner often. When you see a PvP ship appear on short range scan, simply WARP OUT OF DANGER.


Oh this is awesome advice. When mining, it's always a good tactic to move away from the roid you're mining. Your 15km range will give you plenty of time to fill your holds. Roll Not like anyone wanting to attack you will just wait for you to head back to your roid when you're getting out of range of it.

BTW, aligned or not, if you're at a deadstop, which is kind of a prerequisite for MINING, it will take you exactly the same amount of time to warp off.

Quote:

This technique is 100% foolproof - if you are ganked, it is because you were not watching for danger.

Everyone needs to start taking responsibility for their ship, and stop blaming this on the Goons. The Goons can only catch the people who complacently allow them to warp in and scram their ship.

I dont know why the miners dont understand this already. Its very straightforward. At least now, you've all been educated. There is officially no excuse to be ganked in highsec anymore.



It's not 100% foolproof. It's just 100% foolish.

Why are you berating the miners when it's obvious you don't have a clue? It's like telling a victim of domestic violence that it's her fault, or beating your kids and telling them that they made you do it. You're a sociopathic idiot!

No, the crux of the problem is not the lack of dscan, the lack of alignment, planning, or whatever other excuse you want to use to tell the miners it's their fault. The crux is their ships are incapable of defending themselves, that by the mechanics of the game requires them to be stationary targets, and that by fitting any tank to their ship would mean ganking their productivity. Lets face the facts. Mining sucks for income. Having to gank your productivity just adds insult to injury.

You're a pompous ass!

Don't ban me, bro!
Jaroslav Unwanted
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#71 - 2011-10-26 01:02:35 UTC  |  Edited by: Jaroslav Unwanted
well actually 15km range is quite sufficeint all you need is round 4 SS at right direction and just orbit it in allign to SS way Smile

and it will keep you busy...

However many people do semi-afk mining while they are on CTA on their main or whatever so thats really not an option Smile


But its good method for fresh toons in whatever they will do later .. if they get familiar with bookmarking alligning and D-scan .. it makes living in "more dangerous" places easier .. in fact it make those places less dangerous .. apart the wormhole
Lil' Miss Sunshine
Doomheim
#72 - 2011-10-26 01:04:54 UTC
Mr Kidd wrote:
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:


All miners and missioners have an incredibly powerful defense tool - its called a directional scanner. Every ship has one, this is piloting 101 here, nothing complicated.

The directional scanner tells you who is nearby - if you're mining in highsec, there should not be Brutixes or Thrasher gangs nearby.


Yes, because in highly populated systems there's no chance that you'll ever see a brutix or thrasher, much less multiple ships on dscan. Roll

Quote:

While mining, stay aligned, and hit your scanner often. When you see a PvP ship appear on short range scan, simply WARP OUT OF DANGER.


Oh this is awesome advice. When mining, it's always a good tactic to move away from the roid you're mining. Your 15km range will give you plenty of time to fill your holds. Roll Not like anyone wanting to attack you will just wait for you to head back to your roid when you're getting out of range of it.

BTW, aligned or not, if you're at a deadstop, which is kind of a prerequisite for MINING, it will take you exactly the same amount of time to warp off.

Quote:

This technique is 100% foolproof - if you are ganked, it is because you were not watching for danger.

Everyone needs to start taking responsibility for their ship, and stop blaming this on the Goons. The Goons can only catch the people who complacently allow them to warp in and scram their ship.

I dont know why the miners dont understand this already. Its very straightforward. At least now, you've all been educated. There is officially no excuse to be ganked in highsec anymore.



It's not 100% foolproof. It's just 100% foolish.

Why are you berating the miners when it's obvious you don't have a clue? It's like telling a victim of domestic violence that it's her fault, or beating your kids and telling them that they made you do it. You're a sociopathic idiot!

No, the crux of the problem is not the lack of dscan, the lack of alignment, planning, or whatever other excuse you want to use to tell the miners it's their fault. The crux is their ships are incapable of defending themselves, that by the mechanics of the game requires them to be stationary targets, and that by fitting any tank to their ship would mean ganking their productivity. Lets face the facts. Mining sucks for income. Having to gank your productivity just adds insult to injury.

You're a pompous ass!


Thank you. Well said. I don't mind people giving advice and I'll be the first to admit that there are ways to decrease your chances of getting suicided, but people that have never mined giving advice on how to do it ridiculous.

I'm beginning to think this thread is devised to lure more miners into getting suicided.
CorpAlt 18368
State War Academy
Caldari State
#73 - 2011-10-26 01:08:12 UTC  |  Edited by: CorpAlt 18368
Mr Kidd wrote:
Yes, because in highly populated systems there's no chance that you'll ever see a brutix or thrasher, much less multiple ships on dscan. Roll


The directional scanner only detects ships within an player-specified radius up to 2.1 million km. It can be adjusted to detect ships in warp to your location.

Mr Kidd wrote:
Oh this is awesome advice. When mining, it's always a good tactic to move away from the roid you're mining. Your 15km range will give you plenty of time to fill your holds. Roll Not like anyone wanting to attack you will just wait for you to head back to your roid when you're getting out of range of it.

BTW, aligned or not, if you're at a deadstop, which is kind of a prerequisite for MINING, it will take you exactly the same amount of time to warp off.


You are correct, but this is why you realign to a celestial in the opposite direction before you are out of range of the asteroid or ice. At this point, however, you are most vulnerable, but this beats mining stationary (and being a sitting duck) by far. Mining does not require you to be stationary at all.

Mr Kidd wrote:
It's not 100% foolproof. It's just 100% foolish.

Why are you berating the miners when it's obvious you don't have a clue? It's like telling a victim of domestic violence that it's her fault, or beating your kids and telling them that they made you do it. You're a sociopathic idiot!

No, the crux of the problem is not the lack of dscan, the lack of alignment, planning, or whatever other excuse you want to use to tell the miners it's their fault. The crux is they're in ships incapable of defending themselves, that by the mechanics of the game requires them to be stationary targets, and that by fitting any tank to their ship would mean ganking their productivity. Lets face the facts. Mining sucks for income. Having to gank your productivity just adds insult to injury.

You're a pompous ass!


He is indeed wrong for suggesting that it is 100% foolproof, as nothing in this game is. However, it is a viable way to avoid ganks as much as possible and it rewards those who actively pay attention as opposed to an inattentive playstyle. Comparing domestic violence, a serious issue in our society, to suicide ganking is also in rather poor taste. For you to call him "sociopathic" is to call the kettle black. It is also very poor of you to disparage those who make an honest attempt to give sound advice to other players.
Mr Bill Bravor
State War Academy
Caldari State
#74 - 2011-10-26 01:12:09 UTC
What works in lowsec is not practical in hisec. While you may be able to avoid getting ganked you wouldn't get any mining done so essentially you would be wasting your time.

If you convinced everybody to do this what would keep a single pilot from warping in to each belt every five minutes just to make them all warp out? You would have a ganker with no ganks and a bunch of miners with no ore. Sounds kind of boring.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#75 - 2011-10-26 01:14:01 UTC
passive aligned, active aligned. lol. The physics engine isn't even aware of the ship orientation.

It is totally irrelevant where a not moving ship is facing.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
CorpAlt 18368
State War Academy
Caldari State
#76 - 2011-10-26 01:15:42 UTC
Mr Bill Bravor wrote:
What works in lowsec is not practical in hisec. While you may be able to avoid getting ganked you wouldn't get any mining done so essentially you would be wasting your time.

If you convinced everybody to do this what would keep a single pilot from warping in to each belt every five minutes just to make them all warp out? You would have a ganker with no ganks and a bunch of miners with no ore. Sounds kind of boring.



Could you suggest a better alternative rather than discouraging miners from experimenting with the tactics discussed in this thread?
CorpAlt 18368
State War Academy
Caldari State
#77 - 2011-10-26 01:16:13 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
passive aligned, active aligned. lol. The physics engine isn't even aware of the ship orientation.

It is totally irrelevant where a not moving ship is facing.


Yes, this has been stated multiple times in this thread.
Chopper Rollins
hahahlolspycorp
#78 - 2011-10-26 01:21:41 UTC
Hans Jagerblitzen wrote:

This is why I said, if you get ganked, its your own fault. Go live fearlessly, miners and industrialists - get out and explore - find a rich quiet system and mine without hassle! Scan when a target enters system, relax when they leave. You can live wherever you want, work wherever you want. Be bold. Be brave. Be informed.







These words would be inspiring if OP was mining ice right now in Tolle. But he's not. And he won't be. At least not for long.

"Scan when a target enters system, relax when they leave." <<<< especially amusing, as that's when the rock or ice nearest you has been bookmarked, yeah relax, he left the system.

OP gets 11/10 for pig-headedly thinking he knows what he's talkiing about. Make that 12/10 actually.
Go on, tell me it's not your opinion, it's facts, that's such a great argument.




Goggles. Making me look good. Making you look good.
CorpAlt 18368
State War Academy
Caldari State
#79 - 2011-10-26 01:25:26 UTC  |  Edited by: CorpAlt 18368
Chopper Rollins wrote:
These words would be inspiring if OP was mining ice right now in Tolle. But he's not. And he won't be. At least not for long.

"Scan when a target enters system, relax when they leave." <<<< especially amusing, as that's when the rock or ice nearest you has been bookmarked, yeah relax, he left the system.

OP gets 11/10 for pig-headedly thinking he knows what he's talkiing about. Make that 12/10 actually.
Go on, tell me it's not your opinion, it's facts, that's such a great argument.


Could you suggest a better alternative?

Here, let me help you:

1) Mining in a tanked Hulk with a remote rep on you and being volleyed by 2 Tempests. Can you tank two Tempests? Alright, they'll bring more.
2) Having "counter-gankers" with ECM nearby and dying to smartbombs.
3) Having "counter-gankers" with DPS ships nearby and, again, dying anyway.
4) Keeping CONCORD on grid with a "puller" alt and getting volleyed by Tempests, or getting counter-pulled and ganked by a Brutix anyway.
5) Mining while sitting still and, again, dying.
Karadion
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#80 - 2011-10-26 01:27:29 UTC
Cipher Jones wrote:
Karadion wrote:
You fail to understand why the miner's are complaining. They want to run their bots without worrying about getting ganked.


You fail to see why the goons want the miners to complain. They want to run their ratting bots without drawing attention.

So report those that you suspect of botting. However what does ratting have to do with mining? Mining in high-sec is normally a low key activity that no one cares because it's such a crappy income per hour. Goons are doing this for an entirely different reason. However seeing the miner's complain is just a bonus on top of our goal.