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Dev blog: The great ship skill change of summer 2013

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Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#181 - 2013-02-07 16:56:57 UTC
Cameron Zero wrote:
Is this example correct?

As long as you have all racial frigates trained to at least III, you'll get all the racial destroyer skills set to whatever your destroyers skill is when the change occurs. Same is true for the racial cruisers and battlecruiser skill.

Example:

On patch day, you have Amarr, Gallente, and Minmatar frigates trained to IV. You have Caldari frigates trained to II. Your destroyer skill is IV. Once the patch his, you will lose Destroyers IV and gain Amarr Destroyers IV, Gallente Destroyers IV, and Minmatar Destroyers IV. You will not get Caldari Destroyers IV because you didn't train the corresponding racial frigate skill to at least III.

(Replace frigate with cruiser, and destroyer with battlecruiser, for that part of it.)
Yes that is correct. You will only get [Racial] Destroyers skill for whichever races you have [Racial] Frigate skill trained to III, and you will only get [Racial] Battlecruiser skill for whatever races you have [Racial] Frigate IV and [Racial] Cruiser III.

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CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
#182 - 2013-02-07 16:58:37 UTC
Just to clarify one valid question.


  • Even if the prerequisites change, you can still fly the ship as long as you had the main skill before the overhaul. This is not in question here.
  • However, if the prerequisites change, you cannot train the skill until the new prerequisites are met.

    • Ex:

  • You have Amarr Freighter 1 after the change but not Advanced Spaceship Command 5. You can still fly the Providence, but not train Amarr Freighter past 1 until you have Advanced Spaceship Command 5 trained.

    • We are considering changing this so you can still train the skill even after the prerequisites are changed, we'll keep you posted as soon we have an answer.
Ethan Revenant
Adhocracy Incorporated
Adhocracy
#183 - 2013-02-07 16:58:49 UTC
Green Gambit wrote:
Ethan Revenant wrote:
Protip: that was the devblog I linked and the context for the parenthetical statement.


Ah sorry yes. I blame the brain damage from reading the same question/response cycle so many times in the thread so far Twisted


No worries. I was perplexed, that's all. I too am starting to see "but will I still be able to fly x?" in every line of text...
C DeLeon
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#184 - 2013-02-07 16:59:47 UTC  |  Edited by: C DeLeon
If I have the "Interdictors" lvl1 skill but I don't have the "Propulsion Jamming" lvl5 and "Graviton Physics" lvl1 yet what's gonna happen with my "Interdictors" skill and the ability to fly a dictor (even without interdiction sphere launcher)? Am I gonna loose the skill and the ability to be able to fly a dictor? I know that dictor without bubble is pretty much useless but it would be good to know.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#185 - 2013-02-07 17:00:16 UTC
Intex Encapor wrote:
bah extra sp will push me up one clone level, i seriously hate you now

And they said they were going to implement something to mitigate the impact. So much for that...

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#186 - 2013-02-07 17:00:47 UTC
C DeLeon wrote:
If I have the "Interdictors" lvl1 skill but I don't have the "Propulsion Jamming" lvl5 and "Graviton Physics" lvl1 yet what's gonna happen with my "Interdictors" skill and the ability to fly a dictor (even without interdiction sphere launcher)? Am I gonna loose the skill and the ability to be able to fly a dictor? I know that there isn't much of use of a dictor without bubble but it would be good to know.

Please, PLEASE read the thread, your questions have been answered several times.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Maximus Andendare
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#187 - 2013-02-07 17:01:23 UTC
Metal Mini wrote:
So much for if you can fly it before you can fly it after. I can currently fly the Mimitar and Amarr command ships but dont have the warfare skills trained at all. If I am reading this right. Once the changes take place I wont be able to fly these ships at all unless I train them. I am ok with most of the changes but this one really pisses me off.
You're misunderstanding the requirements. All you will need is the Primary Skill and Secondary Skill (and Tertiary Skill, where applicable) to fly the ships post-patch. (These skills are the ones at the very top of the nested skill tree.)

You cannot train for Command Ships, in your example, after the patch unless you have the nested requirements already. But if you can fly it now, you can fly it after, since you will have the requisite Amarr Battlecruiser V and Minmatar Battlecruiser V, as well as Command Ships I.

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tgl3
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#188 - 2013-02-07 17:02:44 UTC  |  Edited by: tgl3
CCP Ytterbium wrote:


  • You have Amarr Freighter 1 after the change but not Advanced Spaceship Command 5. You can still fly the Providence, but not train Amarr Freighter past 1 until you have Advanced Spaceship Command 5 trained.

    • We are considering changing this so you can still train the skill even after the prerequisites are changed, we'll keep you posted as soon we have an answer.
    [/list]

    Please do change it. :(
    EDIT - They changed it!
    James Amril-Kesh
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #189 - 2013-02-07 17:03:19 UTC
    The only skills you have to be concerned about in the prerequisites are those that are fully left-justified (also the top of the list in each category). If you have those, the others don't matter.

    Enjoying the rain today? ;)
    War Kitten
    Panda McLegion
    #190 - 2013-02-07 17:03:56 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Just to clarify one valid question.


    • Even if the prerequisites change, you can still fly the ship as long as you had the main skill before the overhaul. This is not in question here.
    • However, if the prerequisites change, you cannot train the skill until the new prerequisites are met.

      • Ex:

    • You have Amarr Freighter 1 after the change but not Advanced Spaceship Command 5. You can still fly the Providence, but not train Amarr Freighter past 1 until you have Advanced Spaceship Command 5 trained.

      • We are considering changing this so you can still train the skill even after the prerequisites are changed, we'll keep you posted as soon we have an answer.


    We appreciate the confirmation, thanks!

    FWIW, it doesn't bother me which way you decide on the further training issue, but you may end up with bugs or complaints post-patch if you don't stop/address everyone's training queue who is training any skill for which the requirements have changed.

    I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
    Spc One
    The Chodak
    Void Alliance
    #191 - 2013-02-07 17:04:02 UTC
    Intex Encapor wrote:
    bah extra sp will push me up one clone level, i seriously hate you now

    CCP Should reduce all clone costs because of this change.
    James Amril-Kesh
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #192 - 2013-02-07 17:05:01 UTC
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    We are considering changing this so you can still train the skill even after the prerequisites are changed, we'll keep you posted as soon we have an answer.

    I think I speak for everyone when I say that this would be a really good change to make, otherwise you're liable to **** quite a few people off.

    Enjoying the rain today? ;)
    Junko Sideswipe
    Love Squad
    #193 - 2013-02-07 17:11:24 UTC
    Looks good, now when is Soundwave removing clone costs like he said he wanted to do in the minutes last summer? Cool

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    Vincent Athena
    Photosynth
    #194 - 2013-02-07 17:12:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Vincent Athena
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Just to clarify one valid question.


    • Even if the prerequisites change, you can still fly the ship as long as you had the main skill before the overhaul. This is not in question here.
    • However, if the prerequisites change, you cannot train the skill until the new prerequisites are met.

      • Ex:

    • You have Amarr Freighter 1 after the change but not Advanced Spaceship Command 5. You can still fly the Providence, but not train Amarr Freighter past 1 until you have Advanced Spaceship Command 5 trained.

      • We are considering changing this so you can still train the skill even after the prerequisites are changed, we'll keep you posted as soon we have an answer.

    Please change it to "The prereq to training a skill is having that skill injected". Reason: Ive already trained the needed prereq skills under the old system in order to get the skill under the old system. Ive paid my dues. Telling me to pay them again is not cool. The only way to make it cool would be to reimburse those prereqs no longer needed so I can move the SP to the new ones that are needed. But that would be a huge can of worms.

    Edit: It also means alot of skill queues will get interrupted. Every one where pilots are training a skill for which they no longer have the prereq will have to be paused. CCP, are you really willing to do that?

    Edit 2: You could tell everyone to adjust the skill queue before the patch so they will not be training a skill that will be invalid to train. But that means everyone needs to know the full prereqs for the new skills prior to patch day. How is that going to work?

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    Saithe
    Caldari Provisions
    Caldari State
    #195 - 2013-02-07 17:12:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Saithe
    Because I am lazy, and don't care to read an entire wall of text in its entirety (or even check this thread for the answer), would someone mind answering me the following question:

    I currently have every race frigate, cruiser, and battleship skill trained to 5, as well as destroyers and battlecruisers 5.

    With these new changes, will I automatically be given each race destroyer/battlecruiser skill to 5? Or will I have to reacquire 3 of the 4?

    The blog post, from what I was able to read, was not too clear on that. I assume, because it's stated that 'if you can fly it now, you'll be able to fly it post-change', I will be given the racial destroyer/battlecruiser skills to the currently trained level of the des/bc skill, according to the trained racial frig skills currently.

    TL;DR
    How do these changes affect us old players who have everything to 5 already?
    C DeLeon
    Ministry of War
    Amarr Empire
    #196 - 2013-02-07 17:13:00 UTC
    James Amril-Kesh wrote:
    C DeLeon wrote:
    If I have the "Interdictors" lvl1 skill but I don't have the "Propulsion Jamming" lvl5 and "Graviton Physics" lvl1 yet what's gonna happen with my "Interdictors" skill and the ability to fly a dictor (even without interdiction sphere launcher)? Am I gonna loose the skill and the ability to be able to fly a dictor? I know that there isn't much of use of a dictor without bubble but it would be good to know.

    Please, PLEASE read the thread, your questions have been answered several times.

    I searched for the word "interdic" on every page but found no answer. The official answer arrived after I started to write my comment. There is no reason to be a smartass about it.
    CCP Ytterbium
    C C P
    C C P Alliance
    #197 - 2013-02-07 17:15:11 UTC
    Vincent Athena wrote:
    CCP Ytterbium wrote:
    Just to clarify one valid question.


    • Even if the prerequisites change, you can still fly the ship as long as you had the main skill before the overhaul. This is not in question here.
    • However, if the prerequisites change, you cannot train the skill until the new prerequisites are met.

      • Ex:

    • You have Amarr Freighter 1 after the change but not Advanced Spaceship Command 5. You can still fly the Providence, but not train Amarr Freighter past 1 until you have Advanced Spaceship Command 5 trained.

      • We are considering changing this so you can still train the skill even after the prerequisites are changed, we'll keep you posted as soon we have an answer.

    Please change it to "The prereq to training a skill is having that skill injected". Reason: Ive already trained the needed prereq skills under the old system in order to get the skill under the old system. Ive paid my dues. Telling me to pay them again is not cool. The only way to make it cool would be to reimburse those prereqs no longer needed so I can move the SP to the new ones that are needed. But that would be a huge can of worms.


    We know that, your concerns are being brought in our internal discussion Blink. Again, we'll give an answer as soon as we can.
    Zilero
    Aliastra
    Gallente Federation
    #198 - 2013-02-07 17:16:24 UTC
    Can I please have a SP refund on Mining Barges V as I no longer need that to fly a Rorq... oh god, what a terrible useless skill to posses after summer Oops
    Merouk Baas
    #199 - 2013-02-07 17:16:27 UTC
    Would CCP or anyone create an API-based tool that'll tell us what our final skills will be, based on our current skills?
    James Amril-Kesh
    Viziam
    Amarr Empire
    #200 - 2013-02-07 17:17:15 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
    C DeLeon wrote:
    James Amril-Kesh wrote:
    C DeLeon wrote:
    If I have the "Interdictors" lvl1 skill but I don't have the "Propulsion Jamming" lvl5 and "Graviton Physics" lvl1 yet what's gonna happen with my "Interdictors" skill and the ability to fly a dictor (even without interdiction sphere launcher)? Am I gonna loose the skill and the ability to be able to fly a dictor? I know that there isn't much of use of a dictor without bubble but it would be good to know.

    Please, PLEASE read the thread, your questions have been answered several times.

    I searched for the word "interdic" on every page but found no answer. The official answer arrived after I started to write my comment. There is no reason to be a smartass about it.

    Your question was answered in a much more general sense. Next time train reading comprehension before you clutter the thread up with useless crap.

    Enjoying the rain today? ;)