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Electronic Attack Ships - Covert Ops Cloak

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Inmei T'ko
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#41 - 2013-02-07 15:55:28 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Inmei T'ko wrote:


Consider this though, for black ops hotdrops, the amount of fuel required to drop a Keres, a couple Hyenas, a sentinel, and say a half dozen stealth bombers would be a lot less than an equivalent number of rapiers, a falcon, and a pilgrim plus a half dozen stealth bombers. As well the replacement cost of the force recons is tremendously higher. Effectiveness is relative when we are looking at ways to make PvP more accessible. I know we would use these tactics, frigate fleets for hotdrops, if we had them available to us.


Very true, but I think the levels of douche baggery that would happen in FW plexes would personally outweigh benefits to black ops drops. I also think CCP would be reluctant to disable covops in plexes.

"Oh a rifter is in that small plex, i don't see any links on dscan. Ill just warp in and have a good 1v1. OH **** KITSUNE HOW WAS I SUPPOSED TO SEE THAT OTHER THAN CHECKING A 3RD PARTY WEBSITE TO SEE THIS GUYS KILL HISTORY AND HOPE HE HAD NOT RECENTLY CHANGED TACTICS"


I hadn't considered FW. What percentage of EVE's population are really involved in FW I wonder? What I hear is that FW is somehwat broken (as are sov mechanics, let's face it.)

A guy in any plex could always have a falcon sitting there cloaked as well right? What's the difference?
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#42 - 2013-02-07 17:01:18 UTC
Inmei T'ko wrote:


I hadn't considered FW. What percentage of EVE's population are really involved in FW I wonder? What I hear is that FW is somehwat broken (as are sov mechanics, let's face it.)

A guy in any plex could always have a falcon sitting there cloaked as well right? What's the difference?


FW is not broken and is actually extremely popular. Also the plexes have ship restrictions preventing certain ship classes from entering. Frigates fight in novice and small sized plexes which prevent cruisers from entering them.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Mikhael Taron
Four Winds Industry
#43 - 2013-02-07 19:41:13 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:


Also you did argue for it:

Mikhael Taron wrote:

To address your latest failure: interceptors were designed to intercept and hold, yet those little suckers can rip apart ships. Seen it happen. The speed tank is sick, they have killer dps and have the power to stop the target from escaping. That ought to ring a bell with you. If not, see above.

You appear to believe that EA ships must not be allowed the ability to do likewise. Please continue posting.


That doesn't argue for it, are you looking at the same text as is on my screen?

As for being 'inane': many ****-ups have happened because someone was way too clever 'to bother with the inane'. The inane, as you put it, is as valid a part of the equation as the wonderful input attributed to glorious people like yourself.

Please continue posting.

You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.
Inmei T'ko
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#44 - 2013-02-07 20:09:21 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Inmei T'ko wrote:


I hadn't considered FW. What percentage of EVE's population are really involved in FW I wonder? What I hear is that FW is somehwat broken (as are sov mechanics, let's face it.)

A guy in any plex could always have a falcon sitting there cloaked as well right? What's the difference?


FW is not broken and is actually extremely popular. Also the plexes have ship restrictions preventing certain ship classes from entering. Frigates fight in novice and small sized plexes which prevent cruisers from entering them.


Well it is already a game mechanic to block certain ship types from entering plexes. Honestly if a noob in a noob style plex has the capability to bring along a friend in a Kits? Awesome for him.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#45 - 2013-02-07 20:55:06 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD LackOfFaith
Mikhael Taron wrote:


That doesn't argue for it, are you looking at the same text as is on my screen?

As for being 'inane': many ****-ups have happened because someone was way too clever 'to bother with the inane'. The inane, as you put it, is as valid a part of the equation as the wonderful input attributed to glorious people like yourself.

Please continue posting.


OF COURSE IT ARGUES FOR IT! ARE YOU DAFT! You have to be trolling, "well this ship type can do this so it would be exactly the same if we gave those capabiilities to other ships with different roles".

Its inane, Ewar ships should not do dps at all, nobody in a fleet gives a **** about how much dps their ewar ship puts out, in solo pvp it is op. K, end of story, dps doesn't ******* matter.

It's obvious your trolling, I point out how incorrect your comment is, you take the intellectual high ground saying your pointing out the inane is important to the conversation, you claim you aren't arguing that ewar ships should do dps when you obviously are, admitting that what your saying is inane.

Either your a troll or snipped personal attack -- ISD LackOfFaith.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Zan Shiro
Doomheim
#46 - 2013-02-07 22:55:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Zan Shiro
Commander Ted wrote:
Its inane, Ewar ships should not do dps at all, nobody in a fleet gives a **** about how much dps their ewar ship puts out, in solo pvp it is op. K, end of story, dps doesn't ******* matter



this basically.


Want the deeps, bring an af/faction/pirate frig.


Want both ewar and deeps, put it on the above ships. except for ecm most of the ewars work pretty good all in all on unbonused ships. TD still wrecks tracking. I have known sensor damp users who use it to good effect to reel in that kiter (can't kite if you can't target due to range) . Kitsune be your only exception as generally ecm works best on bonused ships, especially when you need the bonuses for a multispec as I am not suggesting rainbowing a hawk lol.

Now why kitsune is not popular is easy enough to explain. As a falcon pilot I know the skill time invested to do it right. Personally, I did not spend added weeks in the elec. skills to jam well to fly frigate. Millions of sp....better used in a falcon (for effect) or a scorpion (for living longer if lucky). More importantly, EAF 5 is training time better applied to say....Recon 5.

Support ships, support roles. or else the game goes full tard. My CO like buzzard probes and gets close up to be cloaky warp in. Your eaf would come in and ewar. The wolvf/enyo/hawk/etc land and commence to gape that ass. Its called a layered fleet concept.

You want to "fix" eaf....well allow me to say fix my buzzard. I want it to have hawk dps, hawk tank and some more speed to probe, tackle and solo kill even af's. I should be entitled to this....like I said I got more skill involved to fly it right with my electronics traiings. the rational part of me however goes this is just a real bad idea.
ISD LackOfFaith
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
ISD Alliance
#47 - 2013-02-07 23:15:20 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD LackOfFaith
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Vayn Baxtor
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2013-02-08 07:09:20 UTC
Wish you'd slap that each time in the face when people post :D!

Using tablet, typoes are common and I'm not going to fix them all.

Mikhael Taron
Four Winds Industry
#49 - 2013-02-08 15:13:29 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:

OF COURSE IT ARGUES FOR IT! ARE YOU DAFT! You have to be trolling, "well this ship type can do this so it would be exactly the same if we gave those capabiilities to other ships with different roles".

Its inane, Ewar ships should not do dps at all, nobody in a fleet gives a **** about how much dps their ewar ship puts out, in solo pvp it is op. K, end of story, dps doesn't ******* matter.

It's obvious your trolling, I point out how incorrect your comment is, you take the intellectual high ground saying your pointing out the inane is important to the conversation, you claim you aren't arguing that ewar ships should do dps when you obviously are, admitting that what your saying is inane.

Either your a troll or snipped personal attack -- ISD LackOfFaith.


If dps doesn't effin matter why did you mention it 4 times in this post and hell only knows how many times in this thread? Seems important to you.

To address your latest fail:

I still haven't argued for dps on the EAF. I said mediocre dps is another reason for not flying one, and YOU HAVE AGREED WITH ME.

Consider this: if EAF had good/excellent dps do you honestly believe people wouldn't be falling over themselves to fly one? An e-war brawler? Of course they would! This shows that mediocre dps IS a reason for not flying one.

Please continue posting.

You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#50 - 2013-02-08 15:21:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Mikhael Taron wrote:

If dps doesn't effin matter why did you mention it 4 times in this post and hell only knows how many times in this thread? Seems important to you.

To address your latest fail:

I still haven't argued for dps on the EAF. I said mediocre dps is another reason for not flying one, and YOU HAVE AGREED WITH ME.

Consider this: if EAF had good/excellent dps do you honestly believe people wouldn't be falling over themselves to fly one? An e-war brawler? Of course they would! This shows that mediocre dps IS a reason for not flying one.

Please continue posting.


Thats a stupid point, as demonstrated by my metaphor of the morbidly obese woman with manhands, and you did argue for it.

How is pointing out that a ship with a specific role that does do dps not a direct argument for it? Or were you just making an inane point for some reason again.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Inmei T'ko
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#51 - 2013-02-08 17:54:13 UTC
Zan Shiro wrote:
Commander Ted wrote:
Its inane, Ewar ships should not do dps at all, nobody in a fleet gives a **** about how much dps their ewar ship puts out, in solo pvp it is op. K, end of story, dps doesn't ******* matter



this basically.


Want the deeps, bring an af/faction/pirate frig.


Want both ewar and deeps, put it on the above ships. except for ecm most of the ewars work pretty good all in all on unbonused ships. TD still wrecks tracking. I have known sensor damp users who use it to good effect to reel in that kiter (can't kite if you can't target due to range) . Kitsune be your only exception as generally ecm works best on bonused ships, especially when you need the bonuses for a multispec as I am not suggesting rainbowing a hawk lol.

Now why kitsune is not popular is easy enough to explain. As a falcon pilot I know the skill time invested to do it right. Personally, I did not spend added weeks in the elec. skills to jam well to fly frigate. Millions of sp....better used in a falcon (for effect) or a scorpion (for living longer if lucky). More importantly, EAF 5 is training time better applied to say....Recon 5.

Support ships, support roles. or else the game goes full tard. My CO like buzzard probes and gets close up to be cloaky warp in. Your eaf would come in and ewar. The wolvf/enyo/hawk/etc land and commence to gape that ass. Its called a layered fleet concept.

You want to "fix" eaf....well allow me to say fix my buzzard. I want it to have hawk dps, hawk tank and some more speed to probe, tackle and solo kill even af's. I should be entitled to this....like I said I got more skill involved to fly it right with my electronics traiings. the rational part of me however goes this is just a real bad idea.


Your buzzard gets used because it has a role. As you point out, so does say an AF or a falcon or a scorp.

You are making my point for me. EAFs don't get used. That is why they need to be fixed, and that is why I think they need a covops cloak to do that fixing. Accessibility and cost trump the training issues. Anyone doing this will train to 4 or 5 anyways whatever the case. A lot of people would train EAF to 5 because they know that with the covops cloak the EAF becomes a viable and desirable combat platform because of economics and (new) capability, particularly as compared to force recons and black ops. Mixed fleet stealth bombers, covops and EAFs would then become a mainstay of black ops. This is what we need.
Dexterous Spider
Perkone
Caldari State
#52 - 2013-02-08 22:04:40 UTC
ShockedShockedShockedShocked I have been in MANY a frig roam fleet, and 90% of them have 1-2 EAFs in them at any given time. They have their role.

U want cloaky and ECM go for a recon, awesome, in their roles.
Judas Lonestar
Stryker Industries
Stryker Group
#53 - 2013-02-09 00:32:52 UTC
Inmei T'ko wrote:
Give all electronic attack ships the covert ops cloak they obviously were originally supposed to have.

Look at the hole in Black Ops capable vessels: you have covops, (good scout, otherwise useless for PvP) the stealth bomber (poor versus frigates) and then we jump straight to the force recons (similar capabilities to the electronic attack ships in their range but far more expensive etc.)

Make electronic attack ships, widely ignored in most circles, something of a renaissance utility vessel for low and nullsec PvP.

How? Give them the cloak, (and the ability to black ops hotdrop.) Much fun frigate mayhem will ensue.

Life should be so good.


I dream of a cloaky Kitsune. ZOMG. That thing would be the terror of space.
Iminent Penance
Your Mom's Boyfriends
#54 - 2013-02-09 08:44:27 UTC
eve is about balance, cloaking is untouchable...

I want every ship to be able to fit covert ops cloaks, and be able to target/shoot while cloaked.

Seriously.
Akturous
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#55 - 2013-02-09 09:41:38 UTC
Supported, EAFs need something to separate them from being just a **** recon. This would also be lovely with black ops because of the reduced mass for bridging, so you could fit your whole gang in frigate size ships, perfect.

Guys complaining about FW plexes, come out of them once in a while you tossers.

Vote Item Heck One for CSM8
Mikhael Taron
Four Winds Industry
#56 - 2013-02-09 11:47:33 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Mikhael Taron wrote:

If dps doesn't effin matter why did you mention it 4 times in this post and hell only knows how many times in this thread? Seems important to you.

To address your latest fail:

I still haven't argued for dps on the EAF. I said mediocre dps is another reason for not flying one, and YOU HAVE AGREED WITH ME.

Consider this: if EAF had good/excellent dps do you honestly believe people wouldn't be falling over themselves to fly one? An e-war brawler? Of course they would! This shows that mediocre dps IS a reason for not flying one.

Please continue posting.


Thats a stupid point, as demonstrated by my metaphor of the morbidly obese woman with manhands, and you did argue for it.

How is pointing out that a ship with a specific role that does do dps not a direct argument for it? Or were you just making an inane point for some reason again.


My above point is a sound one. Is that why you think it's stupid? Or is the reason that it's demonstrated by how much your rant has consumed your basic reasoning? Must we all make unsound points to stop you becoming emotionally unstable?

Please continue posting.

You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.
MisterNick
The Sagan Clan
#57 - 2013-02-09 18:42:48 UTC
This would only replace Falcon alts with Kitsune alts. Only since the Kitsune is less expensive there will be even more of them Shocked

"Human beings make life so interesting. Do you know that in a universe so full of wonders, they have managed to invent boredom."
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#58 - 2013-02-09 23:14:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Commander Ted
Mikhael Taron wrote:


My above point is a sound one. Is that why you think it's stupid? Or is the reason that it's demonstrated by how much your rant has consumed your basic reasoning? Must we all make unsound points to stop you becoming emotionally unstable?

Please continue posting.

Fuckin troll.

Everyone word of your inteceptor analogy was an argument for EAF dps. You must be delusional. Your initial point was wrong or inane take your pick.

Please stop posting.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Commander Ted
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#59 - 2013-02-09 23:15:46 UTC
Dexterous Spider wrote:
ShockedShockedShockedShocked I have been in MANY a frig roam fleet, and 90% of them have 1-2 EAFs in them at any given time. They have their role.

U want cloaky and ECM go for a recon, awesome, in their roles.

You mean t1 eafs I hope. Because I think EAF's are on of the least flown ships in the game.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174097 Separate all 4 empires in eve with lowsec.
Mikhael Taron
Four Winds Industry
#60 - 2013-02-10 06:55:19 UTC
Commander Ted wrote:
Mikhael Taron wrote:


My above point is a sound one. Is that why you think it's stupid? Or is the reason that it's demonstrated by how much your rant has consumed your basic reasoning? Must we all make unsound points to stop you becoming emotionally unstable?

Please continue posting.

Fuckin troll.

Everyone word of your inteceptor analogy was an argument for EAF dps. You must be delusional. Your initial point was wrong or inane take your pick.

Please stop posting.


Why are you continuing to avoid my very reasonable point regarding mediocre dps? Unless you have already forgotten it? I'll quote it again, just in case:

Mikhael Taron wrote:
Consider this: if EAF had good/excellent dps do you honestly believe people wouldn't be falling over themselves to fly one? An e-war brawler? Of course they would! This shows that mediocre dps IS a reason for not flying one.


Please share your thoughts on this. I'm always ready to be educated by those with a superior knowledge of the game; such as yourself.

Please continue posting.

You can fool some of the people all of the time. You can fool all of the people some of the time. You can make a fool out of yourself anytime.