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[Liandri] Statement regarding current affairs in the State.

Author
Vikarion
Doomheim
#1 - 2013-02-07 05:37:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Vikarion
I speak for my alliance.

Liandri is a major force in the Caldari State Protectorate - certainly not the only one, but a major one. We make no apologies for this. We fight the Gallente Federation, and we spend lives and ISK like water in the process. We want to kill Federation Naval ships, FDU ships, and pod the pilots. We are loyal to the State. We defend its territories, attack its enemies. We are not professionals, just would-be soldiers and bloodthirsty killers. We make every attempt to be what the State needs us to be in the warzone.

I make this disclaimer to point out that no one can fault our dedication or our loyalty to the State, because some will try, due to the following statement.

Heth, and his provists, must be removed from power.

We do not care how. The political decisions of the State are not ours to make. But we fought a long and bloody war to secure our independence from centralized power and despotic rule. The CEP is the proper governing power in the State. The megacorporations are the proper political bodies, not the Providence Directorate. The megacorporations are properly directed by their employees and shareholders, not by a centralized government. The CEOs of the megacorporations are the proper heads of the State.

In creating a centralized and dictatorial force, Heth has violated Caldari tradition, and now he violates corporate law. Corporate law is inviolate. There is no such thing as an "executive directive", and Heth has no legal power to issue it. We do not fault the liberation of Caldari Prime. That was ours by right. But we will not support someone who, in the name of Caldari values, inflicts on us a new Luc Duvalier. Nor do we support his incompetence.

Under Heth, the faction war has become a "heads they win, tails we lose" proposition. We take all of their systems, and Heth promptly creates an investment in them that we cannot possibly hope to realize. We lose those systems, and the economy tanks. We fight over Black Rise, and the Gallente reduce our investments there to ashes. Then we retake Black Rise, and Heth starts a civil war. Meanwhile, the Gallente suffer no ill effects from any of our actions whatsoever.

Neither we nor the majority of the State Protectorate support Heth. While we support the meritocratic reforms, his leadership, on the whole, has been incompetent and unwise. We support the war. We do not support the means of conducting it. We are Patriots, Liberals, and Practicals, not provists. But the tipping point has been reached with these attacks by the Providence Directorate on the State itself. Heth and the provists are now an existential threat to the Caldari megacorporations and the time honored rights and privileges of the megas and the Caldari people.

Heth must be removed. The Caldari Way demands it.
Sepherim
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2013-02-07 06:14:28 UTC
And so, another group of pilots flocks to the cause of change, or should it better be called restoration? I wish you and your alliance well on this endeavour, captain Vikarion. We may have many things that differentiate us, but on this we agree: this cause is just. Afterall, it's the highest virtue of all that you use here: loyalty to your country.

Sepherim Catillah Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris Liuteneant Ex-Imperial Navy Imperator Commander

Gorion Wassenar
Stimulus
Rote Kapelle
#3 - 2013-02-07 07:59:00 UTC
Putting a forklift driver on the throne was a huge mistake.

Rote Kapelle - NOW IN SLIGHTLY MORE LAW ABIDING FLAVOR!

"DRINK STARSI!" ©®™Ownership Group Chairman

BloodBird
The Crucible.
#4 - 2013-02-07 15:36:19 UTC
Vikarion wrote:
Meanwhile, the Gallente suffer no ill effects from any of our actions whatsoever.


Blatant lies.

But then again, when did that stop you from inserting as many white-washing attempts as you possibly could into even remotely related topics?

You are, have always been, and always will be, the greatestl State-apologist there was.

In a way it's comforting to know that some things will never change.

Vikarion
Doomheim
#5 - 2013-02-08 03:12:52 UTC
I've noticed some Caldari-aligned pilots speaking in such a way as to intimate that disagreeing with the continued leadership is disloyal, or that we must all pull together, no matter the cost.

To the latter, against outside enemies, I most certainly agree.

But we must, as Caldari, ask ourselves an important question: do we wish to be the Gallente Federation by another name?

The Gallente Federation is a centralized government that uses military power to rule its citizens. It is a political body, and the concerns of that political body outweigh all else. The Providence Directorate is a political body, it is centralized, and it is attempting to make its own concerns outweigh all others. What is this but an attempt to force us into a government that our people rebelled against?

It is, of course, not the actions surrounding the IDA that should primarily trouble us. It is the fact that Heth believes he can overrule the Caldari Business Tribunal. In our history, what CEO has dared to even suggest that corporate justice and law should be made slave to one man? Perhaps Heth has reason for his actions - very well, let him use the proper paths to show those reasons. If the CBT found them reasonable, what Caldari could object?

Let me ask you, my fellow Caldari, why we should tolerate this? When Heth came to power, his claim was to be a restorer of Caldari ways, and a first among equals. I ask you, has he lived up to his promises? No, he has made us a laughingstock of the cluster, squandered Caldari lives and treasure, and disregarded our sacred institutions. If Caldari on the ground are protesting, if the CEP is not behind him, then is it not our responsibility to oppose him? And what of his insane quest to suddenly annihilate our brother infomorphs on the ground? Do we really wish to be the only empire without access to these weapons?

The only thing we can do is to fight for the State, but oppose Heth. Fight for Kaalakiota, Suuvee, Wiyrkomi, Lai Dai, Nugoeihuvi, CBD, Hyasyoda, and Ishukone. Because they are, in the end, what Heth will seek to destroy if he is not stopped. It is Heth or the megacorporations. I serve the Megas, and I serve the State.
BloodBird
The Crucible.
#6 - 2013-02-08 07:43:27 UTC
Vikarion wrote:
The Gallente Federation is a centralized government that uses military power to rule its citizens..


More Blatant lies and smearing.

You think yourself an upstanding Caldari. What kind of upstanding Caldari is there who can't even control their own childish urges?

Vikarion
Doomheim
#7 - 2013-02-08 07:47:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Vikarion
BloodBird wrote:
Vikarion wrote:
The Gallente Federation is a centralized government that uses military power to rule its citizens..


More Blatant lies and smearing.

You think yourself an upstanding Caldari. What kind of upstanding Caldari is there who can't even control their own childish urges?



I don't generally respond to you, because, well, you are an idiot. However, in the context, it's quite obvious that I am making a distinction between political systems. The Gallente Navy is the enforcer, ultimately, of Gallente law. In the State, Law is up to the particular Mega, with said law being enforced by the Megacorporate security forces. The ultimate aim of a mega corporation is commercial, rather than political. I am drawing a similarity between the type of government Heth is creating, and the type in the Federation, which we have already rejected.
Rinai Vero
Blades of Liberty
#8 - 2013-02-08 07:53:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Rinai Vero
Honestly, I believe less and less that Tibus Heth has any influence within the Caldari State anymore. If anyone could convince the Citizens of the State that current events were for the greater good, it would be him. Yet we have had no public statement from the Executor concerning recent upheavals.

Circumstances suggest that Tibus Heth has ben rendered incompetent, and the recent "executive decisions" issued in his name are the feeble efforts of the Provists to maintain power without their figurehead.
BloodBird
The Crucible.
#9 - 2013-02-08 08:38:39 UTC
Vikarion wrote:
BloodBird wrote:
Vikarion wrote:
The Gallente Federation is a centralized government that uses military power to rule its citizens..


More Blatant lies and smearing.

You think yourself an upstanding Caldari. What kind of upstanding Caldari is there who can't even control their own childish urges?



I don't generally respond to you, because, well, you are an idiot. However, in the context, it's quite obvious that I am making a distinction between political systems. The Gallente Navy is the enforcer, ultimately, of Gallente law. In the State, Law is up to the particular Mega, with said law being enforced by the Megacorporate security forces. The ultimate aim of a mega corporation is commercial, rather than political. I am drawing a similarity between the type of government Heth is creating, and the type in the Federation, which we have already rejected.


Your opinion about my mental capacity is noted. Now with that out of the way...

You are making a distinction between political systems indeed, and while you are at it, offering another lie about people you don't respect in any capacity. In this message regarding differing political systems you insert a falsehood that for most people is likely to go un-noticed, but they will make note of it regardless - enough messages about anything you want with enough of these small, false statements will soon convince people that they are true - they have after all seen them everywhere. In repetition rests an easily exploited falsehood: if you repeat a message often enough, people will start to believe it, regardless of the accuracy of the message itself. Unless of course, they have good access to other information that states otherwise, then it will be up to opinion or first-hand experience.

It don't matter what the message is - I could write extensive essays about, say, the Amarrian Empire, and all the while sprinkle it with small, false snippets about the Republic and the Minmatar - a government and people with extensive history around the Empire - and soon people would be reading about one topic while being covertly lied to about another, barely involved topic.

You have done this three times now in this topic alone, sending a message about one topic while inserting a lie about another.

As for your statements themselves, some of it is mostly true, (the parts about Caldari and Federation law and enforcement, even if slightly out of context) and some of it is a lie - you are claiming that Heth seeks to create a Totalitarian government where the authority of the megas are removed, and further you claim that this is the government the Federation has. Again, this is a lie about the Federation that you are happy to insert in a topic that should not even involve us at all.

I would say that this is due to your ever-present anti-Federation ideas, and I wonder if you will manage to share your beliefs and opinions regarding the recent issues in the Caldari State without mixing in your anti-Federation bias at all times.
Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#10 - 2013-02-08 15:48:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Scherezad
BloodBird wrote:
...


Sir;

He is commenting on the fact that, while the Federation has one Navy to exert the will of its Senate, and thus one force to be uniformly applied, each Mega in the State has its own security which it may apply as it sees fit, in addition to the Caldari Navy which acts on behalf of the CBT. Thus may each Mega act as sovereign on its own behalf, instead of being beholden to the military might of the State at large. This is the distinction he is drawing.

You are wrestling with shadows, sir.
BloodBird
The Crucible.
#11 - 2013-02-08 17:19:47 UTC
Scherezad wrote:
BloodBird wrote:
...


Sir;

He is commenting on the fact that, while the Federation has one Navy to exert the will of its Senate, and thus one force to be uniformly applied, each Mega in the State has its own security which it may apply as it sees fit, in addition to the Caldari Navy which acts on behalf of the CBT. Thus may each Mega act as sovereign on its own behalf, instead of being beholden to the military might of the State at large. This is the distinction he is drawing.

You are wrestling with shadows, sir.


This is not even the core of my argument again Vikarion, my argument with Vikarion is his willingness to defame the Federation any way he can, in any context, even in this message where he could easily have left out any mention about the Federation at all, and focused on the problem at hand.

Be that as it may, his statement about the Federation Navy is not even accurate.

"The Gallente Federation is a centralized government that uses military power to rule its citizens. It is a political body, and the concerns of that political body outweigh all else."

"The Gallente Navy is the enforcer, ultimately, of Gallente law."


These are all false. The last can also be understood as a claim that the "Gallente" Ethnic (we can debate for years about who these are supposed to be, and what that term even means) is in control of the whole nation and enforce "their" law. If so, this would not be true either.

The Federated Union of Gallente Prime is, as the name would indicate, a Federated Alliance of member-nations, the Union was created on Gallente Prime. This planet served as the capital of the Federal-level administration at the time, the local Gallente people being the driving force to create the Union. hence the name. The Caldari State was formed out of several Mega-corporations once part of this Union.

This is the interesting part - the Federal level of control do not extend to individual national levels. Each individual nation is sovereign and can deal with their own local security as they see fit. The vast majority relegate that security to the Federation Navy, but not all - my own people currently being a famous example.

The Navy provides Federal-level security - for the most part in space. They don't enforce Federal-level law unless directly in control of locations or facilities under the administration of a Federation-level entity - such as the Senate, for instance.

Federation level laws usually has to do with things like commerce and trade - if you travel Federation space you may notice these patrol ships from Federation Customs everywhere? Most of the enforcement of laws are done by them.

In short, then:

1) I would appreciate it if Vikarion could stop his smear-campaign against the Federation, it is getting very old and stale by now.

2) There was no need to even include us in his message about internal State issues in the first place.

3) His claims about the nature of the Federation and what it's Federal-level government use the navy for are out-right lies.

4) Finally, the individual member-nations in the Federation can rely on whomsoever they please for their shipping, security and any other service they desire. This is similar to the State's megas for the most part, except the megas rely on their own security forces, affiliated shipping corporations and so on, while Federation member-nation usually rely on the Navy, and a multitude of Federation corporations like Federal Freight for their shipping needs.

And now, unless there are more statements directed towards me, or more lying and defamation provided, I think I will leave this topic alone.
Marcus Horalen
Doomheim
#12 - 2013-02-08 18:27:59 UTC
To be quite honest, I was growing tired of the rather incessant attempts at rendering Mr. Vikarion's arguments and concerns null via political correctness.

As I have not already spoken on this topic I would not waste everyone's time by repeating what has already been said, therefor I think it would be simple enough to say that I agree with Mr. Vikarion's poignant remarks regarding the State.
Alena Strazinka
Vapautusliike
#13 - 2013-02-08 22:11:50 UTC
Too little, too late, Vikarion.

You and your friends have allowed Tibus Heth to strangle the State for years, now. He has fortified his position very strongly.

There will be blood. No amount of words spouted on the IGS will remove a tyrant in charge of titans, supercarriers, and a vast war machine of his own personal empire, KK.

This will get worse before it gets better. And because you had supported the Provists on this same communications channel endless times this past few years, acting as their parrot of propaganda, there will be a great deal of Caldari blood on your hands for the war to come.

I hope you feel good about yourself. I hope you can fall asleep easy with that on your conscience.

Kind regards,

CEO Alena Strazinka

Black Rise Military Command, Vapautusliike
Marcus Horalen
Doomheim
#14 - 2013-02-08 22:39:39 UTC
Ms. Strazinka,

While I have nothing but the upmost respect for the Black Rise Military Command, your words fall upon my ears in the same manner upon which the words of Tibus Heth still reverberate. Calling for blood? Placing blame? These are the very idioms that Heth and the Provists have used in ages past to instill fear, hate, and an apathetic sense of patriotism throughout the State. I strongly suggest that you not waste anyone's—let alone your own—time with this nonsensical animosity and instead seek common ground to create alliances against the tyrant.

As you said, there will be blood. I think you'd agree that it'd best be theirs.

Rear Admiral Marcus Horalen,
Galactic Imperial Navy Field Office,
District 3, New Caldari Prime
Alena Strazinka
Vapautusliike
#15 - 2013-02-08 22:57:25 UTC
Vikarion and his allies are untrustworthy and irresponsible. I wouldn't put men at his command if he was the last sentient fleet commander in the State.

Now that this war has begun in earnest, we must ask ourselves the question: who will be there for the long haul? Who risked the most to stand against Tibus Heth from the start, when his behavior was clear for all to see?

We must build this movement, yes, but I would be loathe to accept help from Vikarion or his ilk.
Simon Louvaki
Khaldari InnoTektoniks and Analytical Solutions
#16 - 2013-02-09 00:37:13 UTC
Mrs. Strazinka,

Our race did not survive the dark age and the tribulations after the first Gallente-State War by turning on each other and holding petty grudges based on political allegiance and agendas. Even Kaalakiota and Suukevestaa are capable of putting their rivalry aside for the greater good of the State, and that's what makes us strong. Rash action and harsh words based on emotion and prejudice will lead your cause to ruin. Division only strengthens Heth and fighting a war on multiple fronts is ill-advised for even the most prepared of juggernauts. If you wish to make an impact, you should be wary of your words and who they are directed to and the manner in which they are issued.

Support from the community hinges on the manner you conduct yourself in public.

Respectfully,

Simon Malkov Louvaki, CEO
Sengokuvaa Corporate HQ
Federal Administration Information Center
Office Complex 781, Tier V
Luminaire VII (Caldari Prime)

-- "The weak of mind are quick to judge with slightest tempt; Thus fools go forth to spread false word." - The Scriptures, Book of Trials 2:13 - 2:21

--"At the narrow passage, there is no brother and no friend." - Hyasyoda Proverb

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#17 - 2013-02-09 01:24:22 UTC
Alena Strazinka wrote:
Vikarion and his allies are untrustworthy and irresponsible. I wouldn't put men at his command if he was the last sentient fleet commander in the State.

Now that this war has begun in earnest, we must ask ourselves the question: who will be there for the long haul? Who risked the most to stand against Tibus Heth from the start, when his behavior was clear for all to see?

We must build this movement, yes, but I would be loathe to accept help from Vikarion or his ilk.


It is not the Caldari way to trumpet dissent to the heavens. It is shameful to disagree publicly with those who are your superiors, whether you wish them to be there or not; whether you agree with them or not. It is the Caldari way to be thoughtful and quiet, and act when one is certain that the action is a correct one.

Please keep this in mind when accusing your honoured compatriots of being untrustworthy or irresponsible. I put it to you that you simply did not understand their true intentions from the beginning.
James Syagrius
Luminaire Sovereign Solutions
#18 - 2013-02-09 03:36:46 UTC
Loyalty?

Duty?

Being an outside observer, it is interesting to note how fast allegiances turn when there is blood in the water.

I hope, if your successful, what we get is better than what we have.
Desiderya
Blue Canary
Watch This
#19 - 2013-02-09 15:12:07 UTC
Alena Strazinka wrote:
Vikarion and his allies are untrustworthy and irresponsible. I wouldn't put men at his command if he was the last sentient fleet commander in the State.

Now that this war has begun in earnest, we must ask ourselves the question: who will be there for the long haul? Who risked the most to stand against Tibus Heth from the start, when his behavior was clear for all to see?

We must build this movement, yes, but I would be loathe to accept help from Vikarion or his ilk.


Contrary to yourself, he has put forward more than just empty words to prove his merit. You've recently come out of your hole again to start spouting rebellious talk, with no investment of yourself into matters of the State. "Who will be there for the long haul" - ludicrous. You are endangering the very patriotic work our soldiers, in the skies and on the ground, have done to move our nation forward.

The worthless are crying the loudest. And you are a prime example of this.

Ruthlessness is the kindness of the wise.