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Give Cloaking the ASB / AAR treatment
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James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#181 - 2013-02-07 06:45:03 UTC
So I assume you get hot dropped quite often in your wormhole anomalies, yes?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#182 - 2013-02-07 06:50:42 UTC
No. Do you have scouts on every gate of your ratting system and probes in the air while you PVE?

.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#183 - 2013-02-07 07:17:27 UTC
Roime wrote:
No. Do you have scouts on every gate of your ratting system and probes in the air while you PVE?

Do we pay these scouts or do they do it out of the goodness of their hearts?

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#184 - 2013-02-07 07:20:07 UTC
I'll let you decide how you handle your finances. I don't personally pay salaries to my alts.

.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#185 - 2013-02-07 07:30:48 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Roime wrote:
I'll let you decide how you handle your finances. I don't personally pay salaries to my alts.


So you pay $15 or 500 million isk every month just to have a single system entrance covered?
I'm not sure which is worse, the fact that you actually think this is a good system, or the fact that you think we'd actually do this instead of going to highsec where we'd get more profit for far less effort.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#186 - 2013-02-07 07:31:57 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Roime wrote:
I'll let you decide how you handle your finances. I don't personally pay salaries to my alts.


So you pay $15 or 500 million isk every month just to have a single system entrance covered?
I'm not sure which is worse, the fact that you actually think this is a good system, or the fact that you think we'd actually do this instead of going to highsec where we'd get more profit after these deductions for far less effort.

So go back to highsec. You aren't pvping anyway.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#187 - 2013-02-07 07:36:30 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Roime wrote:
I'll let you decide how you handle your finances. I don't personally pay salaries to my alts.


So you pay $15 or 500 million isk every month just to have a single system entrance covered?
I'm not sure which is worse, the fact that you actually think this is a good system, or the fact that you think we'd actually do this instead of going to highsec where we'd get more profit after these deductions for far less effort.

So go back to highsec. You aren't pvping anyway.

Quiet, the adults are talking.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#188 - 2013-02-07 07:45:55 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Roime wrote:
I'll let you decide how you handle your finances. I don't personally pay salaries to my alts.


So you pay $15 or 500 million isk every month just to have a single system entrance covered?
I'm not sure which is worse, the fact that you actually think this is a good system, or the fact that you think we'd actually do this instead of going to highsec where we'd get more profit for far less effort.


Yeah it's the only use I have for my 25mil SP covert ops alt Cry

.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#189 - 2013-02-07 08:03:17 UTC
I actually like the status quo, as I feel it adds an extra dimension to the game.

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#190 - 2013-02-07 08:28:11 UTC  |  Edited by: TheGunslinger42
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Nikk Narrel wrote:
You are describing pilots who avoid PvP to an absolute degree

Because someone wants to be able to make some isk means they avoid PVP to an absolute degree?
That's a bit of a stretch, don't you think?

TheGunslinger42 wrote:
that has to be the only reason, since it's the only thing that makes it massively different from wormholes

No it isn't, but keep trying.


When it comes to PVE in wormholes and null, the only big negative side for null is cynos.

The other big differences of course are mass limits and static routes.

The lack of mass limits in null doesn't make much of a difference, because if we're talking about ganking people running PVE then it can be done by a single pilot anyway. You don't need a hundred man fleet to take out a lone PVEr, so the lack of mass limits don't make it any more risky for him anyway

Static routes, on the other hand, make it easier for the PVEr, as (excluding cynos) they can know exactly where a threat will come from and can have advance warning if they have friendly neighbours, or alts, etc to sit in neighbouring systems.

Care to try and make an argument instead of just saying "NO" this time, bro?
TheGunslinger42
All Web Investigations
#191 - 2013-02-07 08:44:14 UTC  |  Edited by: TheGunslinger42
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Roime wrote:
I'll let you decide how you handle your finances. I don't personally pay salaries to my alts.


So you pay $15 or 500 million isk every month just to have a single system entrance covered?
I'm not sure which is worse, the fact that you actually think this is a good system, or the fact that you think we'd actually do this instead of going to highsec where we'd get more profit for far less effort.


I see this is as just a difference in attitude, which is fine. I lived in wormhole space for 2 years, and I did PVE to keep me in ships and to save for some shiny toys, but simply making isk wasn't my primary goal - if it was I'd have dedicated myself to incursions in highsec. I operated in that type of space because I liked the mechanics and style of PVP. The PVE in wormholes allowed me to afford that, that was what mattered to me - not ensuring I make the most possible isk for least possible risk.

Additionally, the risk vs reward aspect of null, highsec, etc isn't an argument to not change local. It's an argument to fix the risk vs reward balance between highsec and nullsec.
Iminent Penance
Your Mom's Boyfriends
#192 - 2013-02-07 09:22:16 UTC
If they wont nerf cloaking, can they at least make it so we can shoot and target things while cloaked? No more issue, now everyone can enjoy it now istead of just the afk/hot droppers/"intel gatherers" who dont like the thought of losing godmode.

But I digress... (that was sarcasm if you didnt know, if you cant figure out why god help you)

Theres so much room for balance, so many tears flow when balance is offered. Remember titans? So many people cried about the potential nerf of their godmode track fits.... same thing, new godmode, different tears.

Issue: invincible, no not hot droppers, you can log a freaking, titan, cloak it in a system off a station in lowsec, dd something undocking, warp off. to become invincible again until you decide to decloak(yes i know the warpoff delay, which doesnt matter done right)

"don't undock what you cant afford to lose" shouldnt be nullified by cloaking devices for 23/7... which I myself have abused, but it is bs. Limit them is fine, making them catchable breaks the idea of being invisible... but make it so it isnt "ima godmode forever umad?" Or... just add delays so they cant come back 5 minutes a day and be useful, for every x minutes cloaked, you need to wait y seconds to do anything"

Ta-da, done right they can cloak long enough to gather intel, use cloak haulers to bring fuel or w.e to sustain the cloak... just lose their afk godmode, (less they be discovered).

TLDR: Cloak timers (not 5 mins, id suggest fuel based and required on ship size/skills)
Or...
Activity delay based on cloak activation time.
Thisd fix cloaking entirely to make it for active utility, not passive godmode. (or at least for "intel" like everyone cries about)
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#193 - 2013-02-07 09:26:25 UTC
Iminent Penance wrote:
If they wont nerf cloaking, can they at least make it so we can shoot and target things while cloaked? No more issue, now everyone can enjoy it now istead of just the afk/hot droppers/"intel gatherers" who dont like the thought of losing godmode.

But I digress... (that was sarcasm if you didnt know, if you cant figure out why god help you)

Theres so much room for balance, so many tears flow when balance is offered. Remember titans? So many people cried about the potential nerf of their godmode track fits.... same thing, new godmode, different tears.

Issue: invincible, no not hot droppers, you can log a freaking, titan, cloak it in a system off a station in lowsec, dd something undocking, warp off. to become invincible again until you decide to decloak(yes i know the warpoff delay, which doesnt matter done right)

"don't undock what you cant afford to lose" shouldnt be nullified by cloaking devices for 23/7... which I myself have abused, but it is bs. Limit them is fine, making them catchable breaks the idea of being invisible... but make it so it isnt "ima godmode forever umad?" Or... just add delays so they cant come back 5 minutes a day and be useful, for every x minutes cloaked, you need to wait y seconds to do anything"

Ta-da, done right they can cloak long enough to gather intel, use cloak haulers to bring fuel or w.e to sustain the cloak... just lose their afk godmode, (less they be discovered).

TLDR: Cloak timers (not 5 mins, id suggest fuel based and required on ship size/skills)
Or...
Activity delay based on cloak activation time.
Thisd fix cloaking entirely to make it for active utility, not passive godmode. (or at least for "intel" like everyone cries about)





"godmode" would imply you can actually do something other than move about and use d-scan while cloaked.

By your logic sitting in a pos shield is "godmode" shall we put that on a timer as well?
Iminent Penance
Your Mom's Boyfriends
#194 - 2013-02-07 09:28:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Iminent Penance
afk cloaking is a problem why? i thought all forms of playing eve without touching your keyboard was allowed...

oh wait...

:3
Astroniomix wrote:

"godmode" would imply you can actually do something other than move about and use d-scan while cloaked.

By your logic sitting in a pos shield is "godmode" shall we put that on a timer as well?


If you sit in a pos, can you undetectably leave, light a cyno, or instantly shoot something?
...if you've tried any of the above, you know the answer to be no.

edit... to be a bit more clear, pos provides detection at the cost of losing those tactical advantages. If you can't see that, i propose we make poses mobile, and follow ships we want with a shield that we can toggle. Oh and all ships inside the shield shouldnt be scannable or visible on overview. (Now its like cloaking, as you yourself suggested :D)
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#195 - 2013-02-07 09:33:20 UTC
Iminent Penance wrote:
afk cloaking is a problem why? i thought all forms of playing eve without touching your keyboard was allowed...

oh wait...

:3

"godmode" would imply you can actually do something other than move about and use d-scan while cloaked.

By your logic sitting in a pos shield is "godmode" shall we put that on a timer as well?
[/quote]

If you sit in a pos, can you undetectably leave, light a cyno, or instantly shoot something?
...if you've tried any of the above, you know the answer to be no.[/quote]
How do you f-up quoting? The forums do it for you........



So
1: your problem is with hotdrops not cloaking. That's a different topic for a different thread
2: you can't cloak and remain undetected either, so it's the same as afking in a pos. (you also can't light a cyno while afk)
Iminent Penance
Your Mom's Boyfriends
#196 - 2013-02-07 09:35:34 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
Iminent Penance wrote:
afk cloaking is a problem why? i thought all forms of playing eve without touching your keyboard was allowed...

oh wait...

:3

"godmode" would imply you can actually do something other than move about and use d-scan while cloaked.

By your logic sitting in a pos shield is "godmode" shall we put that on a timer as well?


If you sit in a pos, can you undetectably leave, light a cyno, or instantly shoot something?
...if you've tried any of the above, you know the answer to be no.[/quote]
How do you f-up quoting? The forums do it for you........



So
1: your problem is with hotdrops not cloaking. That's a different topic for a different thread
2: you can't cloak and remain undetected either, so it's the same as afking in a pos. (you also can't light a cyno while afk)[/quote]

1: no. reread.
2: tell me how to find and shoot a cloaked ship, please. You know how many big toys stay cloaked in lowsec for lols?
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#197 - 2013-02-07 09:40:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Astroniomix
Iminent Penance wrote:
Astroniomix wrote:
Iminent Penance wrote:
afk cloaking is a problem why? i thought all forms of playing eve without touching your keyboard was allowed...

oh wait...

:3
Quote:

"godmode" would imply you can actually do something other than move about and use d-scan while cloaked.

By your logic sitting in a pos shield is "godmode" shall we put that on a timer as well?


If you sit in a pos, can you undetectably leave, light a cyno, or instantly shoot something?
...if you've tried any of the above, you know the answer to be no.

How do you f-up quoting? The forums do it for you........



So
1: your problem is with hotdrops not cloaking. That's a different topic for a different thread
2: you can't cloak and remain undetected either, so it's the same as afking in a pos. (you also can't light a cyno while afk)


1: no. reread.
2: tell me how to find and shoot a cloaked ship, please. You know how many big toys stay cloaked in lowsec for lols?

Local, you know he's there the instant he enters channel, you can't do anything to him, but he can't get you either. It's just like a guy in a pos shield. (cept the pos guy can take over the guns and shoot you with those)
Iminent Penance
Your Mom's Boyfriends
#198 - 2013-02-07 09:53:13 UTC
Astroniomix wrote:
Iminent Penance wrote:
Astroniomix wrote:
Iminent Penance wrote:
afk cloaking is a problem why? i thought all forms of playing eve without touching your keyboard was allowed...

oh wait...

:3
Quote:

"godmode" would imply you can actually do something other than move about and use d-scan while cloaked.

By your logic sitting in a pos shield is "godmode" shall we put that on a timer as well?


If you sit in a pos, can you undetectably leave, light a cyno, or instantly shoot something?
...if you've tried any of the above, you know the answer to be no.

How do you f-up quoting? The forums do it for you........



So
1: your problem is with hotdrops not cloaking. That's a different topic for a different thread
2: you can't cloak and remain undetected either, so it's the same as afking in a pos. (you also can't light a cyno while afk)


1: no. reread.
2: tell me how to find and shoot a cloaked ship, please. You know how many big toys stay cloaked in lowsec for lols?

Local, you know he's there the instant he enters channel, you can't do anything to him, but he can't get you either. It's just like a guy in a pos shield. (cept the pos guy can take over the guns and shoot you with those)


if you read other posts of mine i said remove or delay local, so.. quit hiding behind another broken mechanic to justify a broken mechanic
Astroniomix
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#199 - 2013-02-07 09:56:07 UTC
Iminent Penance wrote:


if you read other posts of mine i said remove or delay local, so.. quit hiding behind another broken mechanic to justify a broken mechanic
You'll have to link the post because I don't recall you ever saying that.

And if that's how you really feel than we are in agreement. Adding a method to hunt cloaks is fine as long as we remove the infallable local channel.
Iminent Penance
Your Mom's Boyfriends
#200 - 2013-02-07 09:57:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Iminent Penance
Astroniomix wrote:
Iminent Penance wrote:


if you read other posts of mine i said remove or delay local, so.. quit hiding behind another broken mechanic to justify a broken mechanic
You'll have to link the post because I don't recall you ever saying that.

And if that's how you really feel than we are in agreement. Adding a method to hunt cloaks is fine as long as we remove the infallable local channel.


delaying it where concord isnt present, because theres no police npc force to logically "give" that intel...

edit... make them invisible until seen by something WHILE the person that gets the notification is in system, easy enough. But this is about cloaking, not local xD