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Assault Frigs
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valscorn
Liber8
Common-Denominator
#1 - 2013-02-06 08:37:37 UTC
Greetings all im a returning player to eve looking into assault frigates to get some fast action.

How good are the caldari assault frigs (blarpy still viable??) how do they do in pvp?

I also jumped on the bandwagon long ago and trained up minmitar so im curious as to how the wolf or jag perform in small scale pvp.

since retribution i know things have changed and if anyone can give me some insight it would be most appreciated :D
Roime
Mea Culpa.
Shadow Cartel
#2 - 2013-02-06 08:44:14 UTC
Can't go wrong with any of the assault ships tbh. Just note that T1 frigs are much more competitive these days, and there are new dessies that can punch in nasty ways, don't get overconfident and you'll be fine.

.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#3 - 2013-02-06 09:13:59 UTC
Rail harpy is a beast if you can manage the cap.

Hawk is a beastly brawler.


Blarpy is decent

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#4 - 2013-02-06 09:26:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
AF are a bit of a niche, always have been. They're toys.

Right now due to the T1 frig rebalance I'd say that there's little room for slow AF's, the amount of capable kiting t1 frigs atm makes it VERY dangerous for a sluggish&slow frigate to roam around on its own. If you'd fly a tanked harpy you'll lose it to something simple as a kiting Executioner, it'll take him some time but your only hope is friends showing up or you deaggressing and docking/jumping.

The only real use is if you KNOW what kind of stuff you'll go up against (say, ratters in 0.0) and you have the extra resists and buffed dps to deal with them, atm the fun is in flying T1 frigs and that's how it should be.
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#5 - 2013-02-06 09:30:43 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
AF are a bit of a niche, always have been. They're toys.

Right now due to the T1 frig rebalance I'd say that there's little room for slow AF's, the amount of capable kiting t1 frigs atm makes it VERY dangerous for a sluggish&slow frigate to roam around on its own. If you'd fly a tanked harpy you'll lose it to something simple as a kiting Executioner, it'll take him some time but your only hope is friends showing up or you deaggressing and docking/jumping.

The only real use is if you KNOW what kind of stuff you'll go up against (say, ratters in 0.0) and you have the extra resists and buffed dps to deal with them, atm the fun is in flying T1 frigs and that's how it should be.


What?

If you arent able to slingshot a T1 frig with an AF, you probably need to work on your manual piloting.

Afs are excellent ships, they present good DPS, Tank and agility in a relatively cheap package, my favorites are the kiting wolf and kiting retri, but all of the AFs are viable.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#6 - 2013-02-06 09:48:33 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
AF are a bit of a niche, always have been. They're toys.

Right now due to the T1 frig rebalance I'd say that there's little room for slow AF's, the amount of capable kiting t1 frigs atm makes it VERY dangerous for a sluggish&slow frigate to roam around on its own. If you'd fly a tanked harpy you'll lose it to something simple as a kiting Executioner, it'll take him some time but your only hope is friends showing up or you deaggressing and docking/jumping.

The only real use is if you KNOW what kind of stuff you'll go up against (say, ratters in 0.0) and you have the extra resists and buffed dps to deal with them, atm the fun is in flying T1 frigs and that's how it should be.


What?

If you arent able to slingshot a T1 frig with an AF, you probably need to work on your manual piloting.

Afs are excellent ships, they present good DPS, Tank and agility in a relatively cheap package, my favorites are the kiting wolf and kiting retri, but all of the AFs are viable.


So you're assuming a really good AF pilot and a ****** frigate pilot? AF is sluggish as crap and unless you fight someone who's incompetent that slingshot won't happen. Granted, there's many incompetent pilots out there but relying on that "fact" is probably not a good way to select and fit ships, "only works if the target is an idiot" is not something I'd want to hear when flying an expensive AF and running into a 300k costing T1 frigate.
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#7 - 2013-02-06 09:52:24 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
a 300k costing T1 frigate.


Are you really going to be flying around with a basic T1 fit and expecting to win against anything other than equally cheap ships? Because if you're fitting more than basic T1 your "cheap" frigate suddenly gets a lot closer to AF price levels.
valscorn
Liber8
Common-Denominator
#8 - 2013-02-06 10:01:33 UTC
Ty all for the feedback anyone have a good time with the jag or should I go with arty wolf then?
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#9 - 2013-02-06 10:07:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Vilnius Zar
Merin Ryskin wrote:
Vilnius Zar wrote:
a 300k costing T1 frigate.


Are you really going to be flying around with a basic T1 fit and expecting to win against anything other than equally cheap ships? Because if you're fitting more than basic T1 your "cheap" frigate suddenly gets a lot closer to AF price levels.


Fitting cost for both are similar and actually the AF will quite probably have more slots to fill making even that more expensive. So the only thing that matters when comparing cost is the ship cost itself. More content, less trolling Meryn.
ACE McFACE
Dirt 'n' Glitter
Local Is Primary
#10 - 2013-02-06 23:18:50 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
AF are a bit of a niche, always have been. They're toys.

Right now due to the T1 frig rebalance I'd say that there's little room for slow AF's, the amount of capable kiting t1 frigs atm makes it VERY dangerous for a sluggish&slow frigate to roam around on its own. If you'd fly a tanked harpy you'll lose it to something simple as a kiting Executioner, it'll take him some time but your only hope is friends showing up or you deaggressing and docking/jumping.

The only real use is if you KNOW what kind of stuff you'll go up against (say, ratters in 0.0) and you have the extra resists and buffed dps to deal with them, atm the fun is in flying T1 frigs and that's how it should be.

This is less of a problem if you are in FW, or live in a FW area. You can get in a plex and wait until someone comes in, they'll warp in at zero and if your quick/have the right mods, they wont be getting out of that range. A few days ago I beat a Merlin, Ishkur and Comet at the same site in my Enyo. The Merlin and Comet would have been fine because they used blasters but if I hadn't been at 0 the Ishkur could have kited me.

Now, more than ever, we need a dislike button.
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#11 - 2013-02-06 23:42:59 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Fitting cost for both are similar and actually the AF will quite probably have more slots to fill making even that more expensive.


Congratulations on missing the point.

If you compare base hull costs (like you did) you have a 30 mil AF vs. a 300k T1 frigate, so the AF costs 100x more.

If you include fitting costs (say, 10 mil for full T2/faction ammo/etc) you have a 40 mil AF vs. a 10.3 mil T1 frigate, so the AF only costs 4x more. And, more importantly, the T1 frigate is no longer completely expendable, you have to care about whether or not you lose it just like an AF.

Is the AF still more expensive? Of course. But arguably you get what you pay for, and the gap between the two is MUCH less than what you tried to claim it is.

Quote:
So the only thing that matters when comparing cost is the ship cost itself.


Well, if the goal of comparing costs is to favor one ship as much as possible, sure.

On the other hand, if the goal is to compare the real cost to fly each ship then you need to compare the total prices of the ships and their modules. Since, last time I checked, you aren't going to get very far flying an unfitted ship so the price that you actually pay is more than just the hull cost.

Quote:
More content, less trolling Meryn.


Or perhaps you should try to read and understand before you throw around accusations of trolling? It's less embarrassing for you that way.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#12 - 2013-02-07 01:01:34 UTC
Or you could stop being a giant obvious trolling **** and add something productive to the OP's question.
Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
#13 - 2013-02-07 01:12:05 UTC
Vilnius Zar wrote:
Or you could stop being a giant obvious trolling **** and add something productive to the OP's question.


Just keep digging that hole even deeper.

And I did add something productive to the OP's question. I pointed out that your absurd "300k ISK T1 frigate" doesn't exist, and the supposed cost advantage of the cheaper ship is much less than you were claiming it is. Now the OP can base their decision on the real facts of the situation, not your false claim.
Vilnius Zar
SDC Multi Ten
#14 - 2013-02-07 01:15:46 UTC
Yup, still trolling.
Dorian Tormak
RBON United
#15 - 2013-02-07 04:00:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Dorian Tormak
Alright there's no need to dismiss anyone as a troll.

Merin's made some valid points but at the same time I've come to value the cost of Tech I frigates a lot more lately, as I've been using them to counter all the fast, kitey navy frigates in low-sec.

Here's my idea:

You want bang for your buck, get a destroyer.

You want something more expensive, but specialized, and very deadly, get an assault ship. All things being equal an assault ship will obliterate a destroyer any day - but it will cost at least twice as much - depending on how expensive your destroyer is, and how cheaply you fit your assault ship.

One last thing, I personally don't consider most assault ships to be worth their price at the moment. Pretty much any ship you fly, you're gonna lose, and I've found you can kill the same things with a destroyer as you could with an assault ship, for the most part.

Holy Satanic Christ! This is a Goddamn Signature!
valscorn
Liber8
Common-Denominator
#16 - 2013-02-07 07:29:34 UTC
As much as everyone kites now days is there any viable brawler style assault frigates
Danny John-Peter
Blue Canary
Watch This
#17 - 2013-02-07 08:35:44 UTC
valscorn wrote:
As much as everyone kites now days is there any viable brawler style assault frigates


Harpy is pretty bawler, needs an MWD to not die to the first condor that turns up but it can fit good tackle, tank and some srsbsns deeps, the hawk fits a better tank but drops some deeps, still good.

Ishkur and Enyo are also both viable, as is the Vengance.

The Wolf and Retri are better in kiting role because of there lack of a third mid for proper range control.

The Jag is pretty poor in my opinion, but some people make em work.
Meditril
Hoplite Brigade
Ushra'Khan
#18 - 2013-02-07 09:05:18 UTC
Danny John-Peter wrote:

The Jag is pretty poor in my opinion, but some people make em work.


Unfortunatelly this is true, the last patch killed Jaguars main job.
In the past the Jaguar was very good as tanky, close range heavy tackler to tackle cruisers. Since most cruisers got now 4 medium slots and double webs are very common the Jaguar can not perform this job any more.

In addition blaster frigates got so much their damage buffed that also them simply out DPS the Jaguars good tank.

With regards to kiting, the Jaguar simply does too less of DPS when compared to the Wolf.

So in short, the Jaguar is simply the looser of the last balancing round.
valscorn
Liber8
Common-Denominator
#19 - 2013-02-08 00:33:46 UTC
Alright so the jag sucks.... can i pvp in a hawk???
Knorkor
Ministry of Silly Walk
#20 - 2013-02-08 08:53:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Knorkor
valscorn wrote:
Greetings all im a returning player to eve looking into assault frigates to get some fast action.

How good are the caldari assault frigs (blarpy still viable??) how do they do in pvp?

I also jumped on the bandwagon long ago and trained up minmitar so im curious as to how the wolf or jag perform in small scale pvp.

since retribution i know things have changed and if anyone can give me some insight it would be most appreciated :D


I personally LOVE the Ishkur. It is a very good AS that can deliver quite a punch.
Here is a fit, it does require some skills though:

Quote:
[Ishkur, PvP]
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Adaptive Nano Plating II
Capacitor Power Relay II

1MN Afterburner II
Balmer Series Tracking Disruptor I, Tracking Speed Disruption Script
J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler I

Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Light Neutron Blaster II, Void S
Small Energy Neutralizer II

Small Anti-Explosive Pump I
Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I


Hobgoblin II x5


The drawback is that you have to land not far from your victim in order to catch it, if it is a fast mover.
But that can be achieved in several ways.
The pro is that you can kill almost every frigate or cruiser out there and you actually can compete with the Wolf or Jaguar. You should try to bail out of situation where you can be kited though.
Some people told me the fit is not good, but I think it is pretty awesome.
When you turn off the neut, it is capstable.

edit:
http://i.imgur.com/3JBvo9J.jpg
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