Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Who will miss those who leave?

You are describing pilots who avoid PvP to an absolute degree, and would go so far as to leave for high security space in the event they could not continue to do this.

Exactly how much PvP would be missed from pilots who refuse to PvP?
And how exactly is this any different from them being absent?

Of course, in high security space, they will not find local helping them nearly as much, forcing them to contend with suicide gankers, and war decs where out of corp alts scout them down for blitz attacks.
Significantly more risk for them, oddly enough, than being outside of high security space.

Without Local to create a need, hot dropping will become pointless.

It's effect is to bring the equivalent of a gate to a target, for the express purpose of denying the target a warning that only local provides in this manner. That being, a population spike that is obvious and whose meaning is instantly understood.

If there is no visible population spike, bringing the cyno boat into combat range of a craft that can either fire on it, or signal more combat craft to warp in, is simply a poor idea.
You create an instant gate camp consisting of the target ship(s) plus whoever shows up on grid as your forces arrive. having arriving ships land with client lag is an awful tactical situation.

Much better to have them warp in outside of scan range, then fleet warp to the target.

Only when taken out of context, as you did.



Takes on a whole new meaning, when you don't trim it down to remove the intent to leave if they can't avoid PvP.

There are a good many pilots who would stay, and accept the additional risk. They would not leave, obviously.
I believe they could also be described as wanting to make some ISK.

It is quite reasonable, to consider the likelihood that CCP will adjust the rewards indexes if the risk levels are nudged above daycare levels. They simply have no reason to do this, with PvE in null being comparable to high sec due to Local Chat.

Yes, you do, because I'm not seeing it.

In fact, now that you've got me thinking about it, I'm hard pressed to come up with anything that is actually relevant apart from the fact that doing away with the local member list in nullsec would be a change, and it's already that way in WH space.

Of course some people would flee from the change, where others would revel in it.

Not at all. I am sure you can do a cost benefit analysis, but if you use flawed data you will get flawed results.

You are suggesting, that only with the absolute flawless and immediate intel awareness provided by local, can you operate.
In order for that to be true, those hunting you would need to be psychic, and aware of your every action and movement.
After all, you are insisting on knowing the moment a hostile enters a system in order to have a reasonable play experience.


Based on that last line, you are simply stating you do not wish any changes, keep the status-quo, etc.

Basing off previous lines, you seem to suggest players are limited strictly to personal responsibility, in the context that they need to operate solo. A player must only perform all roles when they have no allies present.
You either ignore or lose sight of the simple detail that risk in null is all or nothing. They can either take out the POS / outposts, or they can't hurt you at all.
Thanks to local, you can get safely to that POS or outpost with zero uncertainty. Your risk on a personal level simply doesn't exist in these circumstances.

While I grant the establishing of SOV, with POS's anchored and Outposts prepared, is most definitely a group effort...
The game does not end there. It is supposed to be a group effort consistently, with members effectively being on call as needed.
Do they need pagers or to be able to be online 23 / 7?
Of course not, but over an alliance expected to hold and defend it's space, having enough online as needed is a very real expectation.

It is simply the game mechanic currently that the PvE section needs no help, as they have no risk except as described above.

Where is the defense effort in that, after the POS is anchored?

And you're insisting that leaving me utterly unable to avoid getting pointed by a cloaky recon ship who drops 20 stealth bombers on me five seconds later is somehow conducive to me ratting in my own space.
Without local there's no way to tell that he's there, there's no way to defend against it before it happens, and once it happens it's too late to do anything about. It's as simple as that.

You know this and you're simply asking for CCP to feed you easy targets instead of doing the work yourself.

And yet somehow wormhole dwellers survive without local. (also recons have a targeting delay after decloaking so if it points you it's because you weren't paying attention)

If you remove local being an infalable intell tool, then providing some means of hunting cloaked ships would not be unreasonable.

No, I realize that, but the added difficulty required on part of the attacker reduces the risk of this happening.


I don't care about hunting cloaked ships. I just want to be able to know that someone who's cloaked is there.

It's you who is ignorant. First of all you assume that you are alone in you system. True, no-one in local!

Mass limitations only prevent supers from entering wormholes. If ratters in null are commonly dropped by supers, the problem is not related to local chat.
Half of wormhole PVE is solo content.
System entrances being scannable means nothing, you have thousands of people chain collapsing their static all the time so that they can open to your hole.
Most PVE sites are anomalies, no probes needed. Yes we have mags and radars, just like there are those and plexes in null.
Sleeper AI, omni damage and tank just makes the actual PVE part massively harder while doing nothing to protect you from ganking.

You have to realise that wormhole gankers are adapted to their environment as well. Unless you find a ton of T3s with logi, faction battleships and capital support "easy to deal with" in a bubble while being pounded by +7000 rat dps and their neuts.

Ganks are not easier to avoid in wormhole space, people just work harder to stay alive.