These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Carriers/Dreadnoughts rebalancing on the horizon?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Capt Retard
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#21 - 2013-02-06 17:24:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Capt Retard
Carriers

  • if Triage is the game, then Archon
  • If non triage - Archon
  • If pimped modules - Archon then Chimera
  • If PVE - oh FFS - why? Maybe Than, Archon or Chimera - depends on WH.
  • If repping POS shiields - Nid, Chimera, Than - what a great game!


So - as a Nid pilot - forget triage:

  • Crap tank
  • Cant fit to rep while tanking on same rep type.
  • Cant cap transfer with your appallingly low cap and range.
  • Always primary in fleet fights.


Dreads

  • Moros - DPS monster
  • Revelation - Good DPS, low ammo, no reloads.
  • Chimera - Damage Type Pure, structures only.
  • Naglfar - Looks, stupid training time. Nothing else.


Supers

  • Armour tanked - fine, the support fleet are all archons giving you cap to jump and reps to live.
  • Shiled tanked - primary! Ha Ha, your support dies rapidly, your ship is gone, your corpmates love you as they never get primaried.


Its bordering on a joke how bad Minmatar are, how crap Capital Missiles are, and yet its been ... ooo - hard to say - how many years since people started complaining about cap imbalance - armour doctrine is the only doctrine - DONT TRAIN MINMATAR CAPITALS, DO TRAIN AMARR/GALLENTE.

How to fix. Fitting on Chimera, fix Capital Missiles for velocity, scrap Nid and Nag - reassign points to any other Amarr or Gallente cap as appropriate - but let them reskin the space potato Moros to the old Nag Skin.
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#22 - 2013-02-06 17:51:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Pohbis
As far as the Nagelfar and Phoenix goes, they need to be changed into pure projectile and hybrid platforms, the SP for citadel torps and cruises reimbursed and the modules removed.

Delayed damage that is able to be speed-tanked by a Titan, simply doesn't work. Missiles only work in highly coherent fleets. Those simply don't happen when it comes to capital warfare. Well, they kinda are, as the Caldari and Minmatar caps are slowly phased out.

For those 2 to be unable to adapt to changing cap doctrines because of missiles is just unacceptable.
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#23 - 2013-02-06 18:00:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
I want a 7.5% active tank bonus on my Nidhoggur to help define it as a triage carrier. I'd also like to see the RR bonus upped to 7.5% to make up for it's ****** capacitor. A bit more fittings so that you can armor fit+armor RR or shield fit + shield RR would be great too.

As to the Phoenix and Naglfar: I don't think capital missiles are fixable as a concept.

-Liang

Ed: Disclaimer, as a max skilled Nidhoggur pilot I've been told triage fleets would rather see a carrier 3 / supports at 3 Archon. What?

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
AyayaPanda
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2013-02-06 18:04:05 UTC
Fozzie:
we're not yet close enough to implementing cap changes to start giving ETAs
What I can assure you of though is that when we do rebalance caps and supercaps, the weakness of the Minmatar versions will be near the top of our priorities.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2482140#post2482140
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#25 - 2013-02-06 18:07:32 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
I want a 7.5% active tank bonus on my Nidhoggur to help define it as a triage carrier. I'd also like to see the RR bonus upped to 7.5% to make up for it's ****** capacitor. A bit more fittings so that you can armor fit+armor RR or shield fit + shield RR would be great too.

As to the Phoenix and Naglfar: I don't think capital missiles are fixable as a concept.

-Liang

Ed: Disclaimer, as a max skilled Nidhoggur pilot I've been told triage fleets would rather see a carrier 3 / supports at 3 Archon. What?


Would fit into the Minmatar style of play if you could armor or shield tank/rep it.

Maybe we can get a quick fix like black ops are getting in 1.1? :D

Not today spaghetti.
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#26 - 2013-02-06 18:11:58 UTC
Alice Saki wrote:

Also Cake Lol



The cake is a lie.

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon
Rab See
Stellar Dynamics
#27 - 2013-02-06 18:56:16 UTC
Liang Nuren wrote:
I want a 7.5% active tank bonus on my Nidhoggur to help define it as a triage carrier. I'd also like to see the RR bonus upped to 7.5% to make up for it's ****** capacitor. A bit more fittings so that you can armor fit+armor RR or shield fit + shield RR would be great too.

As to the Phoenix and Naglfar: I don't think capital missiles are fixable as a concept.

-Liang

Ed: Disclaimer, as a max skilled Nidhoggur pilot I've been told triage fleets would rather see a carrier 3 / supports at 3 Archon. What?


Isnt it already 7.5 on RR per level?

And thats whats sad - it isnt even close to enough to make the Nid good.

As noted - dont train anything capital other than Amarr and Gallente
Liang Nuren
No Salvation
Divine Damnation
#28 - 2013-02-06 18:58:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Liang Nuren
Rab See wrote:
Isnt it already 7.5 on RR per level?


http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Nidhoggur

-Liang

Ed: Chruker seems to claim that it's a 7.5% bonus. I remember it getting some kind of boost to the rep amount, but it wasn't enough to overcome the Archon's superior fittings space.

http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=24483

I'm an idiot, don't mind me.
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
#29 - 2013-02-06 20:43:35 UTC
Ptraci wrote:
Dread re-balancing? Hey yeah - I know - give dreads the ability to use drones. Wait, what?

These ships have already been "rebalanced" lately.



Yes, and taking away drones from dreads and supers was such a great idea?

Sorry, Nerfing Supers and Dreads was a Band-aid fix for the real issue, absurd amounts of isk in the system.
And a year later, they still haven't done anything about the moon isk faucet.....

Signature removed - CCP Eterne
Ranger 1
Ranger Corp
Vae. Victis.
#30 - 2013-02-06 23:00:25 UTC
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Ptraci wrote:
Dread re-balancing? Hey yeah - I know - give dreads the ability to use drones. Wait, what?

These ships have already been "rebalanced" lately.



Yes, and taking away drones from dreads and supers was such a great idea?

Sorry, Nerfing Supers and Dreads was a Band-aid fix for the real issue, absurd amounts of isk in the system.
And a year later, they still haven't done anything about the moon isk faucet.....


Yes, actually, it was a very good idea from a game play perspective.

However I am in full agreement with everything you said after the first line.

View the latest EVE Online developments and other game related news and gameplay by visiting Ranger 1 Presents: Virtual Realms.
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#31 - 2013-02-06 23:13:57 UTC
As I recall, when they did the dread rebalance they said that carriers as a class were the single most balanced category of ship in the game, any they didn't want to touch any other than the Nid(which is far too weak for words).

Moros now sports the single highest DPS in the game.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
#32 - 2013-02-06 23:49:20 UTC
Spurty wrote:
Caps are a bit of a quantum leap from battleships.

Leave them alone and create that missing content that bridges the gap between the two classes.


"a quantum (plural: quanta) is the minimum amount of any physical entity involved in an interaction"

So, you're saying that Caps are the smallest possible change from battleships?

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon
Generals4
#33 - 2013-02-06 23:54:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Generals4
Beekeeper Bob wrote:
Ptraci wrote:
Dread re-balancing? Hey yeah - I know - give dreads the ability to use drones. Wait, what?

These ships have already been "rebalanced" lately.



Yes, and taking away drones from dreads and supers was such a great idea?

Sorry, Nerfing Supers and Dreads was a Band-aid fix for the real issue, absurd amounts of isk in the system.
And a year later, they still haven't done anything about the moon isk faucet.....



First: How do moons create isks? They create moon goo as far as i know.
Second: Isks are irrelevant to the existence of super caps. If there were less isks there would be deflation. The problem is isk distribution. The more people are relatively super rich, the more can afford super fancy items. So if there are more super caps it is caused by an increasing wealth gap.

Actually, if you want to fix the amount of caps and super caps the only feasable solution is to make it harder to produce them.

_-Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily. _
Tallian Saotome
Nuclear Arms Exchange Inc.
#34 - 2013-02-06 23:54:37 UTC
RubyPorto wrote:
Spurty wrote:
Caps are a bit of a quantum leap from battleships.

Leave them alone and create that missing content that bridges the gap between the two classes.


"a quantum (plural: quanta) is the minimum amount of any physical entity involved in an interaction"

So, you're saying that Caps are the smallest possible change from battleships?

No, he's saying Al has to send you travelling through time, righting the wrongs, before you can fly one.

Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom.
Felicity Love
Doomheim
#35 - 2013-02-07 00:45:44 UTC
Before any radical rebalancing of capitals, I would rather see some "luxury" ships created (T1 tech) for those with too much ISK and a desire to be uber-stylish while cruising the spacelanes.

Hell, make it a special purchase item through one mechanism or another -- PLEX, NEX store, Aurum. Whatever .

If folks will buy monocles -- well, nuf said. Blink

"EVE is dying." -- The Four Forum Trolls of the Apocalypse.   ( Pick four, any four. They all smell.  )
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2013-02-07 04:47:42 UTC
killorbekilled TBE wrote:
they are working as intended which is shooting super structures and other capitals

overall capitals should and always be a low priority on CCP schedule

Why? A lot of people use capital ships, and they're an absolute necessity for large groups in pretty much everywhere outside of highsec.

They should be given the same rebalancing priority as any other class of ship, and to my knowledge they are.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Kalle Demos
Ironic Corp Name
#37 - 2013-02-07 09:26:09 UTC
Remove supercaps, there you have your carrier / dread buff!
Princess Saskia
Hyperfleet Industries
#38 - 2013-02-07 09:48:00 UTC
Personally I think its the chimera thats outdated. I'd rather armor triage a thanatos and just put Shield reps as the highslots.

Then again im in an alliance with the ticker [TERBL]

/P

 ♥ 
Princess Saskia
Hyperfleet Industries
#39 - 2013-02-07 09:48:34 UTC
Felicity Love wrote:
Before any radical rebalancing of capitals, I would rather see some "luxury" ships created (T1 tech) for those with too much ISK and a desire to be uber-stylish while cruising the spacelanes.

Hell, make it a special purchase item through one mechanism or another -- PLEX, NEX store, Aurum. Whatever .

If folks will buy monocles -- well, nuf said. Blink



Yes to monocles!

 ♥ 
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#40 - 2013-02-07 10:53:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Pohbis
Kalle Demos wrote:
Remove supercaps, there you have your carrier / dread buff!

They don't have to remove them, CCP needs to get them in line with their thinking about capital warfare.

There's a reason why Dreads and Carriers need to siege and triage to unleash their potential.

Supers simply don't die enough. Add their build cost and the fact that you need to dedicate a character to them, makes them the perfect example of power creep in a certain segment of the playerbase.

Before supers got their buff, cap fleets rose up and cap fleets died in a fire. They still do, but they hardly change the political landscape like they used to, supers do that. The fact that dreads and carriers are within reach of most "normal" EVE players, allowed for some better dynamics when it came to the capital power of established, and not so established alliances.

These days, the nature of supers ensures that they drift, and accumulate, in very few areas of EVE.

Supers simply need to die more, and they need to be a possible next step in diversity for pilots, instead of such a big commitment to a certain playstyle, which they are these days.

So, require them to siege in order to launch FBs, require them to triage for full remote rep power, but in turn, allow them to dock and reduce their build cost a bit.