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Death penalties in eve
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Rented
Hunter Heavy Industries
#21 - 2013-02-06 21:51:20 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
FoxFire Ayderan wrote:
Clearly the OP is being facetious.

However, CCP could make the death penalty more harsh. Instead of simply losing 20% of the difference in Skill Points from how many SP your clone has and how many SP you died with, they could make it so that you lose 100% of the difference.

Have 20 million Skill Points and you didn't upgrade your clone after your last podding, so you only have an Alpha (900,000 SP) clone.... well you lose 19,100,000 Skill Points.

And this is why the skillpoint loss mechanic is largely an irrelevant penalty. It only affects the ones who forget to update their clone, so almost no one even knows the actual penalty of dying in an outdated clone. There simply is no reason to ever not use an up to date clone and it brings nothing good to the gameplay, so the payment might as well be automated.

You don't lose 20% of the difference in Skill Points from how many SP your clone saves and how many SP you died with. You lose 5% of the difference at maximum and it will be taken from the skill you had the most SP in. It's also capped so that you can't lose more then 50% of your SP in the skill that suffers the penalty. The thing is this almost never happens to anyone no matter how much they die. That's why it's not really a death penalty, but more of a penalty for forgetting to do a routine procedure.

so what your saying is, instead of routinely going to the doctor for a check-up, i should just leave a key under my doormat so he can come in at night and do his thing while i sleep, take the money from my wallet, and leave? leaving me with only a phantom sense of humiliation and a curiously empty wallet?


Yes.
Somatic Neuron
Masterwork Productions Inc
#22 - 2013-02-06 21:53:58 UTC
Assgiggles wrote:
I think in eve death is too forgiving and not very realistic. When a player gets podded they should have to start a new character. It would be more fun that way.


Thank you for your support.



If you feel that would be more fun, feel free to delete your pilot anytime you get podded.

There is a backstory and design for why we have clones.

If we had hardcore mode for Eve, nobody would PvP...all you'd have is gankers/griefers that do nothing but destroy the game for everyone else.

The only change I would make, if I was trying to make it more harsh, is to only allow the clones to hold the skillpoints that you had when you last refreshed your clone. Even then, I think it would severely limit PVP.
FoxFire Ayderan
#23 - 2013-02-06 23:22:58 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:

so what your saying is, instead of routinely going to the doctor for a check-up, i should just leave a key under my doormat so he can come in at night and do his thing while i sleep, take the money from my wallet, and leave? leaving me with only a phantom sense of humiliation and a curiously empty wallet?



Pretty much. Big smile
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#24 - 2013-02-07 01:20:42 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
FoxFire Ayderan wrote:
Clearly the OP is being facetious.

However, CCP could make the death penalty more harsh. Instead of simply losing 20% of the difference in Skill Points from how many SP your clone has and how many SP you died with, they could make it so that you lose 100% of the difference.

Have 20 million Skill Points and you didn't upgrade your clone after your last podding, so you only have an Alpha (900,000 SP) clone.... well you lose 19,100,000 Skill Points.

And this is why the skillpoint loss mechanic is largely an irrelevant penalty. It only affects the ones who forget to update their clone, so almost no one even knows the actual penalty of dying in an outdated clone. There simply is no reason to ever not use an up to date clone and it brings nothing good to the gameplay, so the payment might as well be automated.

You don't lose 20% of the difference in Skill Points from how many SP your clone saves and how many SP you died with. You lose 5% of the difference at maximum and it will be taken from the skill you had the most SP in. It's also capped so that you can't lose more then 50% of your SP in the skill that suffers the penalty. The thing is this almost never happens to anyone no matter how much they die. That's why it's not really a death penalty, but more of a penalty for forgetting to do a routine procedure.

so what your saying is, instead of routinely going to the doctor for a check-up, i should just leave a key under my doormat so he can come in at night and do his thing while i sleep, take the money from my wallet, and leave? leaving me with only a phantom sense of humiliation and a curiously empty wallet?



If only this is how it works.
Mag's
Azn Empire
#25 - 2013-02-07 01:28:45 UTC
CCP should give the OP a job, ASAP. Have you seen the state of their toilets?

Destination SkillQueue:- It's like assuming the Lions will ignore you in the Savannah, if you're small, fat and look helpless.
Katie Frost
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#26 - 2013-02-07 01:29:24 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
[so what your saying is, instead of routinely going to the doctor for a check-up, i should just leave a key under my doormat so he can come in at night and do his thing while i sleep, take the money from my wallet, and leave? leaving me with only a phantom sense of humiliation and a curiously empty wallet?


You must be from the States to use such an analogy.
Destination SkillQueue
Doomheim
#27 - 2013-02-07 02:17:49 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
FoxFire Ayderan wrote:
Clearly the OP is being facetious.

However, CCP could make the death penalty more harsh. Instead of simply losing 20% of the difference in Skill Points from how many SP your clone has and how many SP you died with, they could make it so that you lose 100% of the difference.

Have 20 million Skill Points and you didn't upgrade your clone after your last podding, so you only have an Alpha (900,000 SP) clone.... well you lose 19,100,000 Skill Points.

And this is why the skillpoint loss mechanic is largely an irrelevant penalty. It only affects the ones who forget to update their clone, so almost no one even knows the actual penalty of dying in an outdated clone. There simply is no reason to ever not use an up to date clone and it brings nothing good to the gameplay, so the payment might as well be automated.

You don't lose 20% of the difference in Skill Points from how many SP your clone saves and how many SP you died with. You lose 5% of the difference at maximum and it will be taken from the skill you had the most SP in. It's also capped so that you can't lose more then 50% of your SP in the skill that suffers the penalty. The thing is this almost never happens to anyone no matter how much they die. That's why it's not really a death penalty, but more of a penalty for forgetting to do a routine procedure.

so what your saying is, instead of routinely going to the doctor for a check-up, i should just leave a key under my doormat so he can come in at night and do his thing while i sleep, take the money from my wallet, and leave? leaving me with only a phantom sense of humiliation and a curiously empty wallet?


Please do go on with your analogy. I'm curious to hear where you're going with it, since it doesn't seem to actually have anything to do with what I said or the medical clone system besides the medical theme. Or did you just want to say something mildly humorous for no particular reason?
Luc Chastot
#28 - 2013-02-07 04:02:02 UTC
Wow, so hardcore. People would love this!

Make it idiot-proof and someone will make a better idiot.

Assgiggles
State Protectorate
Caldari State
#29 - 2013-02-07 04:14:11 UTC
Luc Chastot wrote:
Wow, so hardcore. People would love this!


Thats what i am saying!
FoxFire Ayderan
#30 - 2013-02-07 04:18:14 UTC
Assgiggles wrote:
Luc Chastot wrote:
Wow, so hardcore. People would love this!


Thats what i am saying!



Pfft. That's not hardcore.

Hardcore is permanent death *and* CCP charges $1000 on your credit card.

Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#31 - 2013-02-07 04:49:38 UTC
FoxFire Ayderan wrote:
Assgiggles wrote:
Luc Chastot wrote:
Wow, so hardcore. People would love this!


Thats what i am saying!



Pfft. That's not hardcore.

Hardcore is permanent death *and* CCP charges $1000 on your credit card.



And then you are dropped onto the DUST servers and have to squirrel away components to jury rig up a ship KSP style but more minmatar like to boost yourself off the planet and somehow sling shot into a station to get your new noobship.
Ris Dnalor
Tribal Liberation Force
Minmatar Republic
#32 - 2013-02-07 06:59:34 UTC
Assgiggles wrote:
I think in eve death is too forgiving and not very realistic. When a player gets podded they should have to start a new character. It would be more fun that way.


Thank you for your support.



Originally there was going to be mandatory skillpoint loss every time you died, no matter how good your clone was.

I think 80% & Level 5 was the best proposed clone, meaning that any skills under level 5 were safe, but every skill at level 5 would have a 20% chance of having some skillpoint loss -- every time you died.


And that was the best clone :)


But they decided against that much harshness hehe... right before they added the autopilot iirc.

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961

EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody

  • Qolde
Shmekla
I Have a Plan
#33 - 2013-02-07 07:20:34 UTC
Assgiggles wrote:
I think in eve death is too forgiving and not very realistic. When a player gets podded they should have to start a new character. It would be more fun that way.


Thank you for your support.


Just do this - do not insure your clone and go pvp. Later you should came here and share your experience Blink
Iminent Penance
Your Mom's Boyfriends
#34 - 2013-02-07 11:04:42 UTC
nullsec would be empty in 2 weeks, Approved. Ccp do this now, also implement pods not being able to warp, hell have the pods die on ship loss.

What could possibly go wrong involving the eve community
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#35 - 2013-02-07 14:38:20 UTC
OP, why you be trollin'?

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Vulfen
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#36 - 2013-02-07 14:57:49 UTC
I'm sorry but lets be honest here this is a mechanic that does not need changing... say you die you loose your ship so you have to pay for a new 1, you get podded - you loose implants and have to buy a new clone upgrade, great thats isk lost. but if you want to send everyone back to 0SP (pretty much) when they die then 0.0 gets evaced and highsec becomes packed. think about it logically just leave the clone system alone.

If CCP had to change it so there was a penalty the most basic approach is the best; current skill training pauses cannot resume for 24 hours while the body matures inside of the POD and is capable of learning.
Rroff
Antagonistic Tendencies
#37 - 2013-02-07 15:19:05 UTC
^^ I doubt highsec would be packed - its one of those things that sounds like a great idea on paper but in reality you quickly lose 90% of your players as the vast majority of people play games to take time out from the daily grind. Its one of the concerns I had when hearing about world of darkness as the mechanic has been tried several times before and in every case without exception they've had to tone it down to head off rapidly declining player bases.
Nariya Kentaya
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#38 - 2013-02-07 17:29:53 UTC
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
FoxFire Ayderan wrote:
Clearly the OP is being facetious.

However, CCP could make the death penalty more harsh. Instead of simply losing 20% of the difference in Skill Points from how many SP your clone has and how many SP you died with, they could make it so that you lose 100% of the difference.

Have 20 million Skill Points and you didn't upgrade your clone after your last podding, so you only have an Alpha (900,000 SP) clone.... well you lose 19,100,000 Skill Points.

And this is why the skillpoint loss mechanic is largely an irrelevant penalty. It only affects the ones who forget to update their clone, so almost no one even knows the actual penalty of dying in an outdated clone. There simply is no reason to ever not use an up to date clone and it brings nothing good to the gameplay, so the payment might as well be automated.

You don't lose 20% of the difference in Skill Points from how many SP your clone saves and how many SP you died with. You lose 5% of the difference at maximum and it will be taken from the skill you had the most SP in. It's also capped so that you can't lose more then 50% of your SP in the skill that suffers the penalty. The thing is this almost never happens to anyone no matter how much they die. That's why it's not really a death penalty, but more of a penalty for forgetting to do a routine procedure.

so what your saying is, instead of routinely going to the doctor for a check-up, i should just leave a key under my doormat so he can come in at night and do his thing while i sleep, take the money from my wallet, and leave? leaving me with only a phantom sense of humiliation and a curiously empty wallet?


Please do go on with your analogy. I'm curious to hear where you're going with it, since it doesn't seem to actually have anything to do with what I said or the medical clone system besides the medical theme. Or did you just want to say something mildly humorous for no particular reason?

You suggested the mechanic and payment should be automated.
thats taking money out of the player's wallet without asking first.
thats a no-no.
i know plenty of people who are dirt poor, so they pick and choose when and where they update their clone, often times having to play very carefully as they are down to <1mil isk and are flying around with 80mil+ SP and a basic clone. forcing these people to go ahead and pay the fee would reduce him to either 0 isk, or less than. as well as requiring him to fall back to rookie ships with civvy guns since he would no longerbe able to afford ammo.


yes he is an extreme case and is extremely bad at eve, but its still soemthing to consider, especially for high-sp characters.

as for the analogy, nah, i cant even write out the explanation without having a grossly immature laughing fit, will come back and type it out later.
Super spikinator
Hegemonous Conscripts
#39 - 2013-02-07 18:06:12 UTC
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
Nariya Kentaya wrote:
Destination SkillQueue wrote:
FoxFire Ayderan wrote:
Clearly the OP is being facetious.

However, CCP could make the death penalty more harsh. Instead of simply losing 20% of the difference in Skill Points from how many SP your clone has and how many SP you died with, they could make it so that you lose 100% of the difference.

Have 20 million Skill Points and you didn't upgrade your clone after your last podding, so you only have an Alpha (900,000 SP) clone.... well you lose 19,100,000 Skill Points.

And this is why the skillpoint loss mechanic is largely an irrelevant penalty. It only affects the ones who forget to update their clone, so almost no one even knows the actual penalty of dying in an outdated clone. There simply is no reason to ever not use an up to date clone and it brings nothing good to the gameplay, so the payment might as well be automated.

You don't lose 20% of the difference in Skill Points from how many SP your clone saves and how many SP you died with. You lose 5% of the difference at maximum and it will be taken from the skill you had the most SP in. It's also capped so that you can't lose more then 50% of your SP in the skill that suffers the penalty. The thing is this almost never happens to anyone no matter how much they die. That's why it's not really a death penalty, but more of a penalty for forgetting to do a routine procedure.

so what your saying is, instead of routinely going to the doctor for a check-up, i should just leave a key under my doormat so he can come in at night and do his thing while i sleep, take the money from my wallet, and leave? leaving me with only a phantom sense of humiliation and a curiously empty wallet?


Please do go on with your analogy. I'm curious to hear where you're going with it, since it doesn't seem to actually have anything to do with what I said or the medical clone system besides the medical theme. Or did you just want to say something mildly humorous for no particular reason?

You suggested the mechanic and payment should be automated.
thats taking money out of the player's wallet without asking first.
thats a no-no.
i know plenty of people who are dirt poor, so they pick and choose when and where they update their clone, often times having to play very carefully as they are down to <1mil isk and are flying around with 80mil+ SP and a basic clone. forcing these people to go ahead and pay the fee would reduce him to either 0 isk, or less than. as well as requiring him to fall back to rookie ships with civvy guns since he would no longerbe able to afford ammo.


yes he is an extreme case and is extremely bad at eve, but its still soemthing to consider, especially for high-sp characters.

as for the analogy, nah, i cant even write out the explanation without having a grossly immature laughing fit, will come back and type it out later.


So you advocate that you shouldn't get any items until you have paid for the market escrow at a station manually, and cannot buy any items without also paying the relevant fees manually as well? Should we expand this to income where you have to manually accept each individual npc bounty payment, bonus mission payment, player bounties, etc, etc.
FoxFire Ayderan
#40 - 2013-02-07 19:27:07 UTC
Vulfen wrote:
I'm sorry but lets be honest here this is a mechanic that does not need changing... think about it logically just leave the clone system alone.



I find it amusing when people actually think there is any realistic threat of CCP taking the OP's suggestion seriously and implementing it.

But then trolls do need SOMEONE to feed on.

Lol
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