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RMTing...

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HollyShocker 2inthestink
HOW to PEG SAFETY
#21 - 2013-02-06 17:18:01 UTC
baltec1 wrote:
Jake Warbird wrote:
IB4 All hisec miners are botters


Its only about 50-60%


Proof??
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#22 - 2013-02-06 17:18:27 UTC
"i am too dumb to understand how people make isk halp"

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#23 - 2013-02-06 17:19:38 UTC
"oh i guess an rmter botting for isk is unable to manage to figure out 'maybe i should run more ice mining bots' after all i am dumber than rocks ergo everyone is"

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#24 - 2013-02-06 17:22:57 UTC
Marlona Sky wrote:
You know if people would stop buying ISK from RMTers and use the official methods, we would not have to worry about this.


You know if people would just stop driving drunk, we wouldn't have all these drunk driving accidents.

That is, in essence, exactly what you just said.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2013-02-06 17:30:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiteo Hatto
Whatayoke wrote:
1. Find out how much marauders/any good L4 ships do an hour.
2. a is the amount from 1. a * 23 = b, profit per day
3. b * 30 = c, profit per month
4. lets say an RMTer runs 40 copies of eve in highsec: c * 40, profit from 40 copies per month
5. question solved?


So wait......you mean somebody actually trained up 40 accounts to use marauders AND bought the hulls AND fittings to "bot" in them ?

Thats a lot of isk required to "make more isk", by then that person would probably be bored by the amount of effort required to maintain that style of play.

You really don't make that much from missions, i'd be down in null running anomalies if i wasn't such a casual risk averse carebear scrub.
Dave Stark
#26 - 2013-02-06 17:33:55 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
Marlona Sky wrote:
You know if people would stop buying ISK from RMTers and use the official methods, we would not have to worry about this.


You know if people would just stop driving drunk, we wouldn't have all these drunk driving accidents.

That is, in essence, exactly what you just said.


and both are true.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#27 - 2013-02-06 17:38:43 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
So wait......you mean somebody actually trained up 40 accounts to use marauders AND bought the hulls AND fittings to "bot" in them ?

Thats a lot of isk required to "make more isk", by then that person would probably be bored by the amount of effort required to maintain that style of play.

You really don't make that much from missions, i'd be down in null running anomalies if i wasn't such a casual risk averse carebear scrub.

yeah this is pretty much nonsense

missions are hilariously heavily botted: for a long time one of the surest ways to make money was buy implants shortly before a big patch and sell them right afterwards

why did that work so well? because each new patch would break mission-runner bots for a few days to a few weeks, causing far fewer implants to come to jita and causing a price spike

the swings are much less extreme now because of fw though

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
#28 - 2013-02-06 17:39:14 UTC
I don't support the removal of local in 0.0, but this is one instance were it would actually help fix part of the problem.

Then again, alliances might not sell ISK, but if people think individuals are not selling ISK earned by skimming high-level alliance income, they are in denial.
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#29 - 2013-02-06 17:41:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Weaselior
basically missions and ice are heavily botted in empire for two reasons:

a)infinite scalability: botters can keep onlining new bots and throwing them at sources of money ad infinitum. a mission runner system or ice belt supports as many bots as a botter can manage

b)no competition: botters don't have to compete for resources with real players, who will get mad at them and report them to ccp (or harrass their bots)


they're in empire of course because

c)no risk: because of concord, the risk is minimal, very little ganking, and the bots can be much dumber and lose much less uptime to having to hide.

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Kiteo Hatto
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2013-02-06 17:45:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Kiteo Hatto
Weaselior wrote:
Kiteo Hatto wrote:
So wait......you mean somebody actually trained up 40 accounts to use marauders AND bought the hulls AND fittings to "bot" in them ?

Thats a lot of isk required to "make more isk", by then that person would probably be bored by the amount of effort required to maintain that style of play.

You really don't make that much from missions, i'd be down in null running anomalies if i wasn't such a casual risk averse carebear scrub.

yeah this is pretty much nonsense

missions are hilariously heavily botted: for a long time one of the surest ways to make money was buy implants shortly before a big patch and sell them right afterwards

why did that work so well? because each new patch would break mission-runner bots for a few days to a few weeks, causing far fewer implants to come to jita and causing a price spike

the swings are much less extreme now because of fw though



Interesting, good to know! Care to explain how does one bot missions though ? Not sure if its just me but I just can't imagine software do missions, i mean, what you get is random :S How do the "bot" know what to shoot and when to start shooting ? Well, maybe it would be possible with overtanked missile boats or drone boats(before retribution) but the dps would be so low that it would take forever for each mission and income per hour would drop so low that the "bot" might as well mine roids.
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#31 - 2013-02-06 17:47:26 UTC
Weaselior wrote:
basically missions and ice are heavily botted in empire for two reasons:

a)infinite scalability: botters can keep onlining new bots and throwing them at sources of money ad infinitum. a mission runner system or ice belt supports as many bots as a botter can manage

b)no competition: botters don't have to compete for resources with real players, who will get mad at them and report them to ccp (or harrass their bots)


they're in empire of course because

c)no risk: because of concord, the risk is minimal, very little ganking, and the bots can be much dumber and lose much less uptime to having to hide.


Well, I guess then you'd have to petition those accounts. No one likes botters. I'm sure CCP would ban them, at IP levels if need be. Ofcourse, you'd need proof first.

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Hedion's oracle
Naari LLC
#32 - 2013-02-06 17:48:09 UTC
Ok kids .......pay attention, ill put this simply as possible.........ask yourselfs who would have the assets to supply & build the vast amount of supercaps, factionships and everything else on RMT sites, should be easy enough to figure out. Cool

Error: Working As intended
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#33 - 2013-02-06 17:50:58 UTC
Kiteo Hatto wrote:

Interesting, good to know! Care to explain how does one bot missions though ? Not sure if its just me but I just can't imagine software do missions, i mean, what you get is random :S How do the "bot" know what to shoot and when to start shooting ? Well, maybe it would be possible with overtanked missile boats or drone boats(before retribution) but the dps would be so low that it would take forever for each mission and income per hour would drop so low that the "bot" might as well mine roids.


missions are incredibly not random, there is a very limited set of missions and you know which mission you're going off on

i dunno exactly how they're programmed (if they rely on pimpfit omni-fits, if the bots can fit themselves, or if they just only accept certain missions they can do well) but mission-running bots have existed for ages and some googling would probably pop up the names of the common bots. it's been going on for many years though so bot writers have had plenty of time to tweak their approach to increase money

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#34 - 2013-02-06 17:52:52 UTC
people in empire just see that guy constantly running missions 23/7 and they think "man that guy really loves his missions"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#35 - 2013-02-06 17:53:24 UTC
also you're arguing with people who think missions are hard

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Weaselior
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#36 - 2013-02-06 17:53:40 UTC
Jake Warbird wrote:

Well, I guess then you'd have to petition those accounts. No one likes botters. I'm sure CCP would ban them, at IP levels if need be. Ofcourse, you'd need proof first.

we reported every ice mining bot we found when killing them (they are less fun to kill because they don't ***** at you in local)

the issue is the 'report bot' function just feeds data to sreeg's algorithms rather than causing an investigation of the bot, according to the stuff he's said, and the rest of the staff doesn't really look into it much anymore

so it's basically a question of how good his algorithms are getting (fairly good from my understanding)

bots are a huge factor in the eve economy and if you're trying to understand the market you've got to understand what's going on with botting

Head of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal Pubbie Management and Exploitation Division.
Andski
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#37 - 2013-02-06 17:55:09 UTC
"why do NPC kills hit rock bottom all over empire for weeks after every patch? guess people are just busy patching"

Twitter: @EVEAndski

"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths."    - Abrazzar
Jake Warbird
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#38 - 2013-02-06 18:05:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Jake Warbird
Weaselior wrote:

we reported every ice mining bot we found when killing them (they are less fun to kill because they don't ***** at you in local)

the issue is the 'report bot' function just feeds data to sreeg's algorithms rather than causing an investigation of the bot, according to the stuff he's said, and the rest of the staff doesn't really look into it much anymore

so it's basically a question of how good his algorithms are getting (fairly good from my understanding)

bots are a huge factor in the eve economy and if you're trying to understand the market you've got to understand what's going on with botting


Well, I really didn't know about the report bot button only doing so much. That sucks to be quite honest. The least I thought they'd do was a character level investigation of the incident. Yea, his algorithms have been great at getting rid of the scum.

About bots, I believe that all players should condemn their use. And should be banned regardless of sec.

Sugar Von MurdererTits : Jake Warbird gets my vote for most intriguing and attractive male character in Eve.
Malik Doom
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#39 - 2013-02-06 18:09:09 UTC
Ovv Topik wrote:
My question is : How hard can it be for CCP to track them down?

-Buy from them.
-Pay via a reversible means like paypal.
-Trace the isk back to the original account.
-Reverse the payment.
-Ban account.

I used to do it all the time with pirates selling my software on ebay.



^^This


Who cares if is null or high-sec. Also CCP should out botters and those who participate in RMT. If it's proven let it be known. Actions have consequences.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#40 - 2013-02-06 18:11:49 UTC
Hell, just make known botters flashy-red.
The community will handle the rest.

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