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Remove ability to Refine Loot or the ability to Remote Rep

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Tallianna Avenkarde
Pyre of Gods
#21 - 2011-10-25 19:43:36 UTC
Wonders why, if miners are serious about stopping suicide ganking, they don't use THEIR PVP skills...


I.E they band together to do some market manipulation to drive up the price of Brutixs in their area..

And a sudden plunge in the sullen swell. Ten fathoms deep on the road to hell.
Velicitia
XS Tech
#22 - 2011-10-25 20:07:51 UTC
part of the problem Tallianna is that there are just so damn many people mining and producing things that it's not that easy for a small group to effectively do this.

You also have to keep in mind that there are VERY few miners who actually seem to want to work together on things, especially if it they perceive that it will impact their income/wallet. I'm having to work through some of this mentality right now in the manner of "yes, seriously, the corp is taking xx% of your minerals from corp ops so the corp can afford to continue providing all the free stuff that you love oh so very much"

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Belrend Coregaul
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2011-10-25 22:41:43 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Spitfire
Mining is no longer a vital part of EVE.. I don't even think it ever was.
Remote Rep removal was a joke with meaning. Meaning that these pilots WHO ARE IN COMBAT ALL THE TIME never lose their damn 1.5bil ships and so the demand for minerals isn't there.

On top of this Miners are a G-Damn joke and laughed at with pointed fingers because these stupid kids can refine 2 lvl 4's and use them to make their fittings as they please leaving miners without the demand they should have.

There's not even a minigame or anything to keep BOTs from being an easy ass thing to use. No random variable, NOT EVEN A GRAPHIC EFFECT FOR DESTROYED ASTEROIDS.

This is pathetic for a space game that has been out for this long.

And the fact they continue to produce more and more income gains for combat kids with the same ZERO risk to their 1.5bil ships is demeaning for sci-fi as a genre.

"Conform to the tide; don't do what you love to do to have fun.. You have to conform!"

Please do not use profanity on the forums. Spitfire
Velicitia
XS Tech
#24 - 2011-10-25 23:53:40 UTC
o_O

um, what?

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
Belrend Coregaul
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#25 - 2011-10-26 01:07:17 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
o_O

um, what?



CCP has shown no regard for miners or even any inclination they plan to change anything about it. For Years.
Verity Sovereign
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#26 - 2011-10-26 04:19:59 UTC
Velicitia wrote:
Verity Sovereign wrote:
Stop mining.
Start running missions/incursions

Mineral production goes down

ISK faucet turned on higher

Mineral prices rise

Allow this trend to continue until it is worth your time to mine.

Its your own fault for continuing to waste your time mining when the compensation is so little.


If it doesn't work, then obviously what you are doing is so easy a bot can do it better, and perhaps you don't deserve much profit from doing it.


missions suck Smile. I don't mine for ISK (that's what market PVP is for... ), I mine so I have something to do whilst market PVPing. Though, that's gone down now that ship spinning has come back Lol


They do suck, but he's complaining about them...
He's not complaining about incursions, which produce no refinable loot.

As to no risk... I just made it the the high sec island incursion.
Its the only high sec incursion there is atm (unless one spawned in the last few hours).

Can you say gate camps?
It certainly was no zero risk getting there (I didn't bring my nightmare, but now I'm regretting that in my non shiny Apocalypse. Given I was only 5 jumps from the low sec corridor, and I was heading within minutes of it popping, and I scouted the gates in an atron, I think the risk getting in was low enough.... getting my nightmare out again)
Tasko Pal
Spallated Garniferous Schist
#27 - 2011-10-26 04:59:17 UTC
Belrend Coregaul wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
o_O

um, what?



CCP has shown no regard for miners or even any inclination they plan to change anything about it. For Years.


So what's the problem? You're getting good income with little risk or work. Even a missioner will occasionally lose ships and they have to be more active at the keyboard.
DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#28 - 2011-10-26 05:53:36 UTC  |  Edited by: DetKhord Saisio
Belrend Coregaul wrote:
Mining is no longer a vital part of EVE.


What is vital to the game? PvP? PvE? or maybe manufacturing? You can not do any of those without the minerals mined in high sec by bots. Sure okay, I'll bite. Remove mining since it is no longer vital to Eve. All the bots go away, all those SP go away.

Where do you get enough minerals to build all the titans and carriers? Can you build all the ships using only loot drops melted into minerals? Yes, but not at current production levels. You now know why CCP can never remove bot/macro miners, the lack of minerals would put ship costs through the roof. Everything would be much more expensive. New players would stop playing since they would not be able to afford to buy anything.

CCP failed by not fixing mining income and taxes years ago. CCP continues to fail by ignoring the problem; I think they have no idea how to fix it. I have said many times... click my name and post history... how to fix it. Tax all professions, especially mining, automatically via the interface (ratters pay 10% to corp for every bounty prize over 100k ISK). Corporations/alliances only respect their money-earners, so they mostly hire ratters to ensure the healthy economic life of the corp. Since miners are not taxed by default, the miner is not respected by anyone, and therefore is ignored.

[edit: changed "every bounty prize over 100k ISK.)"]
CCP Spitfire
C C P
C C P Alliance
#29 - 2011-10-26 06:25:56 UTC
Moved from "Science and Industry".

CCP Spitfire | Marketing & Sales Team @ccp_spitfire
Khanh'rhh
Sparkle Motion.
#30 - 2011-10-26 09:01:19 UTC
Belrend Coregaul wrote:
And the fact they continue to produce more and more income gains for combat kids with the same ZERO risk to their 1.5bil ships is demeaning for sci-fi as a genre

Your risk of being ganked is about equal to a mission runner being ganked. You can take quite trivial measures to protect yourself.

Refining loot is only ONE thing that affects mineral prices - the other is the sheer number of people willing to perform an action for meager rewards. Hint: much too many.

"Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual,

DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
#31 - 2011-10-26 10:57:05 UTC
Tasko Pal wrote:
Belrend Coregaul wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
o_O

um, what?



CCP has shown no regard for miners or even any inclination they plan to change anything about it. For Years.


So what's the problem? You're getting good income with little risk or work. Even a missioner will occasionally lose ships and they have to be more active at the keyboard.

Why not have more miners mining in nul? You force them all to move to nul... actually, entice them to move voluntarily. Say with rewards for mining nul ore.

Some sort of random spawns that will make them space rich? If that is all they are trying to do, become space rich... they would probably jump at the chance to mine in nul. The more ore mined in nul, the more chance pvp has to kill them. And the more items must be exported to trade hubs from nul.

May have to remove about 90 percent of the ore spawns in empire, but with many more ppl mining expensive ore, supply might go up, prices down for minerals and everything else. And the new players can make a killing mining empire ore in frigates. Continuing as a miner would draw them to mining nul. Can this be tested on SiSi?
Velicitia
XS Tech
#32 - 2011-10-26 13:43:21 UTC
DetKhord Saisio wrote:
Tasko Pal wrote:
Belrend Coregaul wrote:
Velicitia wrote:
o_O

um, what?



CCP has shown no regard for miners or even any inclination they plan to change anything about it. For Years.


So what's the problem? You're getting good income with little risk or work. Even a missioner will occasionally lose ships and they have to be more active at the keyboard.

Why not have more miners mining in nul? You force them all to move to nul... actually, entice them to move voluntarily. Say with rewards for mining nul ore.

Some sort of random spawns that will make them space rich? If that is all they are trying to do, become space rich... they would probably jump at the chance to mine in nul. The more ore mined in nul, the more chance pvp has to kill them. And the more items must be exported to trade hubs from nul.

May have to remove about 90 percent of the ore spawns in empire, but with many more ppl mining expensive ore, supply might go up, prices down for minerals and everything else. And the new players can make a killing mining empire ore in frigates. Continuing as a miner would draw them to mining nul. Can this be tested on SiSi?


Shocked I'm sort of agreeing with a TEST pilot... EVE IS DYING!!!

anyway, whilst it's a good idea on paper (see above somewhere where I laid it out with numbers and stuff if you want), the trouble is a lot of miners feel that they should be able to play with little to no risk involved. See the prevalence of tears that the goons have extracted recently from Gallente space ...


The problem with miners coming to null centres more around the fact that even though minerals are "important" to the continued viability of an alliance, nullsec alliance leadership generally seems to overlook this. There are (in my experience) continual CTA operations (i.e. "come get blown up, anyone who is found not shooting or ship spinning will be shot") and generally a treatment of any industrially-inclined members of an alliance as second-class. I think a large part of the problem here is how unbelievably easy it is to source a titan's worth of "compressed" minerals from Jita -- head there with a freighter of mega or morphite ... head home with 425mm artillery (or whichever the best compression module is).

Yeah, not every alliance is like this, and there might be a few smaller ones that actually LIKE the miners around ... but then I've never sought them out...

One of the bitter points of a good bittervet is the realisation that all those SP don't really do much, and that the newbie is having much more fun with what little he has. - Tippia
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