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What warp speed would really look like
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YuuKnow
The Scope
#1 - 2013-02-06 14:52:09 UTC  |  Edited by: YuuKnow
http://gamelab.mit.edu/games/a-slower-speed-of-light/

Download the game above to see what RL warp speed would look like. Its pretty cool. Wonder if the Eve warp effects could be similar. Not so much the colors, but the space bending effects.

yk
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#2 - 2013-02-06 15:07:10 UTC  |  Edited by: Eugene Kerner
YuuKnow wrote:
http://gamelab.mit.edu/games/a-slower-speed-of-light/

Download the game above to see what RL warp speed would look like. Its pretty cool. Wonder if the Eve warp effects could be similar. Not so much the colors, but the space bending effects.

yk



http://www.sci-news.com/physics/article00820.html
This is what it would/could look like.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2013-02-06 15:11:01 UTC  |  Edited by: De'Veldrin
YuuKnow wrote:
http://gamelab.mit.edu/games/a-slower-speed-of-light/

Download the game above to see what RL warp speed would look like. Its pretty cool. Wonder if the Eve warp effects could be similar. Not so much the colors, but the space bending effects.

yk


RL warp speed would be utterly and totally black in all wave-lengths. Since you're travelling faster than light, no electro magnetic waves would ever catch up to you (save the ones you bounce through accidentally). There'd be literally nothing to see, because the light would never catch up to your ship.

That is setting aside for the moment the fact that, according to the laws of nature as we know them, it would take an infinite amount of energy to actually cross from sub-light to faster-than-light.

Also, while the game lowers the speed of light, it does not, according to the description, move the characters past it.

Quote:

Custom-built, open-source relativistic graphics code allows the speed of light in the game to approach the player’s own maximum walking speed.


This would be, most likely, an asymptotic approach which never quite makes the speed of light in the game equal to or less than the character's walking speed.

EDIT:
I cross posted with the post above mine, which has updated information on what this might look like based on new research. So it may be totally black after all.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
TyeBaak
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2013-02-06 15:14:40 UTC
De'Veldrin wrote:
RL warp speed would be utterly and totally black in all wave-lengths. Since you're travelling faster than light, no electro magnetic waves would ever catch up to you (save the ones you bounce through accidentally). There'd be literally nothing to see, because the light would never catch up to your ship.


What about the light sources you're moving toward?
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2013-02-06 15:15:44 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
YuuKnow wrote:
http://gamelab.mit.edu/games/a-slower-speed-of-light/

Download the game above to see what RL warp speed would look like. Its pretty cool. Wonder if the Eve warp effects could be similar. Not so much the colors, but the space bending effects.

yk



http://www.sci-news.com/physics/article00820.html
This is what it would/could look like.


Nice find.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#6 - 2013-02-06 15:17:16 UTC
TyeBaak wrote:
De'Veldrin wrote:
RL warp speed would be utterly and totally black in all wave-lengths. Since you're travelling faster than light, no electro magnetic waves would ever catch up to you (save the ones you bounce through accidentally). There'd be literally nothing to see, because the light would never catch up to your ship.


What about the light sources you're moving toward?


Interesting question. My quess is they would be blue shifted so far up the scale they'd be undetectable.
But, check the post above mine. Seems it may not be completely black after all. Hello CMB.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#7 - 2013-02-06 15:55:49 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
I don't really understand the rationale behind it looking like that. As far as I know there's no mathematical model for predicting what would happen to light between two objects with superluminal relative velocity - at those speeds the Lorentz factor would have a complex value, which as far as I know has no interpreted physical meaning.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Ravnik
Infinate Horizon
#8 - 2013-02-06 15:59:09 UTC
Who cares what it would look like..i would probably have my eyes closed anyway! Shocked

The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long - and you have burned so very, very brightly..........
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#9 - 2013-02-06 16:17:40 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I don't really understand the rationale behind it looking like that. As far as I know there's no mathematical model for predicting what would happen to light between two objects with superluminal relative velocity - at those speeds the Lorentz factor would have a complex value, which as far as I know has no interpreted physical meaning.


As far as I understand the references they assume a travelspeed of v=0.9999995c so not faster than light but with relativistic speed.
They seem to use a gamma of approx. 1000,00013.

TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs [:o] "   CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a diȼk joke." Robin Williams - RIP
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#10 - 2013-02-06 16:20:09 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
YuuKnow wrote:
http://gamelab.mit.edu/games/a-slower-speed-of-light/

Download the game above to see what RL warp speed would look like. Its pretty cool. Wonder if the Eve warp effects could be similar. Not so much the colors, but the space bending effects.

yk



http://www.sci-news.com/physics/article00820.html
This is what it would/could look like.

Interesting.

The article, not hyperspace. Hyperspace would be singularly boring to look at.

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2013-02-06 17:57:18 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Eugene Kerner wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I don't really understand the rationale behind it looking like that. As far as I know there's no mathematical model for predicting what would happen to light between two objects with superluminal relative velocity - at those speeds the Lorentz factor would have a complex value, which as far as I know has no interpreted physical meaning.


As far as I understand the references they assume a travelspeed of v=0.9999995c so not faster than light but with relativistic speed.
They seem to use a gamma of approx. 1000,00013.

Oh, you're right.
So essentially this says nothing about what hyperspace itself would look like, just what it would appear as you approached the threshold. Of course even assuming you could get a spacecraft up to this velocity there's probably no amount of shielding that could protect it from the bombardment of extremely blueshifted cosmic radiation or relativistic interstellar dust and hydrogen. Traveling at such a speed would probably completely destroy any macroscopic object pretty rapidly.
This is also of course assuming that one accelerates in a classical faction and doesn't use some other means of achieving superluminal velocity (ex. the Alcubierre drive).

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#12 - 2013-02-06 18:01:12 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
YuuKnow wrote:
http://gamelab.mit.edu/games/a-slower-speed-of-light/

Download the game above to see what RL warp speed would look like. Its pretty cool. Wonder if the Eve warp effects could be similar. Not so much the colors, but the space bending effects.

yk



http://www.sci-news.com/physics/article00820.html
This is what it would/could look like.



Actually, "A Slower Speed of Light" really only goes to 99% of c, but the physics article is about 99.999% c.

Another fun thing to think about is weather we would even see Doppler shift. The red/blue shift is caused by an observer moving through space, but newer ideas about "warp drives" indicates that we may not move through space, but that we warp space such that our immediately surrounding space moves through other space.

We may not actually see any blue/red shift, but instead a bunch of strange lensing.
silens vesica
Corsair Cartel
#13 - 2013-02-06 18:05:07 UTC
Barakach wrote:


...newer ideas about "warp drives" indicates that we may not move through space, but that we warp space such that our immediately surrounding space moves through other space.

We may not actually see any blue/red shift, but instead a bunch of strange lensing.

Right up until the drive shuts off, and all those highly energetic particles trapped in your drive field suddenly release their energy.

Then it's a lightshow for all to see, with the best seats being about a light year away...

Tell someone you love them today, because life is short. But scream it at them in Esperanto, because life is also terrifying and confusing.

Didn't vote? Then you voted for NulBloc
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#14 - 2013-02-06 18:05:13 UTC
Barakach wrote:
Eugene Kerner wrote:
YuuKnow wrote:
http://gamelab.mit.edu/games/a-slower-speed-of-light/

Download the game above to see what RL warp speed would look like. Its pretty cool. Wonder if the Eve warp effects could be similar. Not so much the colors, but the space bending effects.

yk



http://www.sci-news.com/physics/article00820.html
This is what it would/could look like.



Actually, "A Slower Speed of Light" really only goes to 99% of c, but the physics article is about 99.999% c.

Another fun thing to think about is weather we would even see Doppler shift. The red/blue shift is caused by an observer moving through space, but newer ideas about "warp drives" indicates that we may not move through space, but that we warp space such that our immediately surrounding space moves through other space.

We may not actually see any blue/red shift, but instead a bunch of strange lensing.

It's likely that there would be some effect of blue-redshift using a warp drive such as the Alcubierre drive. I can only claim to understand the basics of special and general relativity, pretty much everything I've learned being from self-study as it's a fascination of mine. What I do know however is that the redshift we see from very distant galaxies is not only caused by their recessional velocity, but it's also caused by the expansion of space itself between us and those galaxies, stretching the wavelength of the light coming from those galaxies. A similar effect would no doubt come into play here, although again not being an expert it's hard to say exactly what it would look like when traveling inside a rapidly propagating "bubble" of space.

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#15 - 2013-02-06 18:06:07 UTC
If I put enough Hyperspatial whosits rigs in.... Can I get my interceptor to go plaid?

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#16 - 2013-02-06 18:07:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Barakach
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I don't really understand the rationale behind it looking like that. As far as I know there's no mathematical model for predicting what would happen to light between two objects with superluminal relative velocity - at those speeds the Lorentz factor would have a complex value, which as far as I know has no interpreted physical meaning.


Relative speed cannot exceed speed of light, but the good news is that space can move faster than light, but nothing can move through space faster than light. Relativity only applies to objects moving through space.

An example would be a gravity well. The space around a large object may be distorted by gravity such that the space is moving faster than c, so light cannot escape, but that doesn't change the fact that light is still moving at c. You just won't see the light anymore because the space is falling into the gravity well faster than light can move through the space.
Anslo
Scope Works
#17 - 2013-02-06 18:07:53 UTC
Eugene Kerner wrote:
YuuKnow wrote:
http://gamelab.mit.edu/games/a-slower-speed-of-light/

Download the game above to see what RL warp speed would look like. Its pretty cool. Wonder if the Eve warp effects could be similar. Not so much the colors, but the space bending effects.

yk



http://www.sci-news.com/physics/article00820.html
This is what it would/could look like.


I saw that too. Interesting take. Physicist turned writer Alastair Reynolds pictured near FTL speeds to be quite fascinating.

A ring of stars would be condensed all around your ship on a flat plane, as the stars would be moving around you, top, bottom, wherever, at such high speeds that you simply would see black. The only 'light' you'd see would be a thin bright ring on the plan parallel to the cross section of your ship.

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
James Amril-Kesh
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2013-02-06 18:14:09 UTC  |  Edited by: James Amril-Kesh
Barakach wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I don't really understand the rationale behind it looking like that. As far as I know there's no mathematical model for predicting what would happen to light between two objects with superluminal relative velocity - at those speeds the Lorentz factor would have a complex value, which as far as I know has no interpreted physical meaning.


Relative speed cannot exceed speed of light, but the good news is that space can move faster than light, but nothing can move through space faster than light. Relativity only applies to objects moving through space.

That's what current physics says, yes. And like I said, at local velocities exceeding those of light, the Lorentz factor would have a complex value, which means that the apparent length, mass-energy, and other factors of a ship moving at such speeds would also have complex values. I can't think of any physical meaning for a length of 4 * sqrt(-1) meters, just as a temperature of -50 Kelvins also makes no physical sense.

EDIT: I should clarify that I mean that it has a nonzero imaginary component when I refer to something as having a complex value, since technically real numbers are a subset of complex numbers as well (all real numbers have an imaginary coefficient of zero).

Enjoying the rain today? ;)
Barakach
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#19 - 2013-02-06 18:24:58 UTC
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
Barakach wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I don't really understand the rationale behind it looking like that. As far as I know there's no mathematical model for predicting what would happen to light between two objects with superluminal relative velocity - at those speeds the Lorentz factor would have a complex value, which as far as I know has no interpreted physical meaning.


Relative speed cannot exceed speed of light, but the good news is that space can move faster than light, but nothing can move through space faster than light. Relativity only applies to objects moving through space.

That's what current physics says, yes. And like I said, at local velocities exceeding those of light, the Lorentz factor would have a complex value, which means that the apparent length, mass-energy, and other factors of a ship moving at such speeds would also have complex values. I can't think of any physical meaning for a length of 4 * sqrt(-1) meters, just as a temperature of -50 Kelvins also makes no physical sense.

EDIT: I should clarify that I mean that it has a nonzero imaginary component when I refer to something as having a complex value, since technically real numbers are a subset of complex numbers as well (all real numbers have an imaginary coefficient of zero).


Negative kelvin has been measured, due to a technically of the definition. Cool

http://www.sciencenews.org/view/generic/id/347370/description/Hottest_temperature_ever_measured_is_a_negative_one
De'Veldrin
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#20 - 2013-02-06 18:28:18 UTC
Barakach wrote:
James Amril-Kesh wrote:
I don't really understand the rationale behind it looking like that. As far as I know there's no mathematical model for predicting what would happen to light between two objects with superluminal relative velocity - at those speeds the Lorentz factor would have a complex value, which as far as I know has no interpreted physical meaning.


Relative speed cannot exceed speed of light, but the good news is that space can move faster than light, but nothing can move through space faster than light. Relativity only applies to objects moving through space.

An example would be a gravity well. The space around a large object may be distorted by gravity such that the space is moving faster than c, so light cannot escape, but that doesn't change the fact that light is still moving at c. You just won't see the light anymore because the space is falling into the gravity well faster than light can move through the space.


This is one of the best explanations of this I have ever seen. Kudos to you.

De'Veldrin's Corollary (to Malcanis' Law): Any idea that seeks to limit the ability of a large nullsec bloc to do something in the name of allowing more small groups into sov null will inevitably make it that much harder for small groups to enter sov null.
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