These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Warfare & Tactics

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
Previous page123
 

curious , worst frigate for pvp ?
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#41 - 2013-02-05 23:52:42 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
I like both the punisher and the rifter tbh. You just have to know what is feasible to attack/kill. If you think that prop/scram/web is the only way to PVP then you need to get out more. Punisher is an awesome small gang frig and the rifter can be fit to counter most frigs (up against a frig that is fit to do a similar role it will lose - jack of all trades syndrome) Dual rep incursus dies easily to a 'super rifter' fit.

For me the worst frig is the breacher! It looks like someone ripped off a crane and stapped an engine to it!

Style of substance anyday!




I'm pretty sure i could take a rifter 9/10 in a Heron...


As to the comment that things would be able to disengage/kite the punisher even with a web.

Yes a TD scramkiter could (sort of)

But it would still make the ship about 10 times as viable for solo pvp.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#42 - 2013-02-06 04:44:02 UTC
Garviel Tarrant wrote:
Taoist Dragon wrote:
I like both the punisher and the rifter tbh. You just have to know what is feasible to attack/kill. If you think that prop/scram/web is the only way to PVP then you need to get out more. Punisher is an awesome small gang frig and the rifter can be fit to counter most frigs (up against a frig that is fit to do a similar role it will lose - jack of all trades syndrome) Dual rep incursus dies easily to a 'super rifter' fit.

For me the worst frig is the breacher! It looks like someone ripped off a crane and stapped an engine to it!

Style of substance anyday!




I'm pretty sure i could take a rifter 9/10 in a Heron...


As to the comment that things would be able to disengage/kite the punisher even with a web.

Yes a TD scramkiter could (sort of)

But it would still make the ship about 10 times as viable for solo pvp.


I never commented on the ability of the punisher to hold a target in combat. To use the punisher you have to accept that you have 0 range dictation capability. There are people out there that successfully fly the punisher in small/solo combat. Once again prop/web/scram isn't the only way to pvp. After all the dual prop incursus that a LOT of people cheer about is crap IMO as it doesn't even have the projection of the punisher!

The rifter could probably counter fit to take out the heron tbh. The thing with the rifter is that is still do everything that it could before (nothing has changed about it) it's strength lies in the ability to lots of different things. But it relies on great player knowledge and skill rather than pure stats. If it comes across a more specialised ship fit to do a specific job then it will lose. But if it comes across the fit it was setup to counter you get a very dead target. Often to the bemusement of said target 'cos the rifter is ****!'

I still like them despite their apparent weaknesses.

And you are pretty dangerous in most ships tbh Garv so I would expect you to murder me in a rifter Lol


And the breacher is by far the worst frig in game now! Pot a rocket motor to a section of scaffolding and duct tape some fireworks to it and you have the breacher!!

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#43 - 2013-02-06 07:36:25 UTC
Quote:
But it relies on great player knowledge and skill rather than pure stats.

The only area in which a rifter meaningfully outperforms a slasher is active armor tanking. Which is pretty niche, considering what the rifter is.
Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#44 - 2013-02-06 08:37:51 UTC
Milton Middleson wrote:
Quote:
But it relies on great player knowledge and skill rather than pure stats.

The only area in which a rifter meaningfully outperforms a slasher is active armor tanking. Which is pretty niche, considering what the rifter is.


active armour tanking is a niche in frig combat now?!

It is however very interesting that the slasher is now widely considered a much better frig than a rifter (I'm not disagreeing with this either) but the thing most people don't realise is that the rifter does exactly the same as it always did, it hasn't changed at all. And with the changes to armour tanking incoming next week it's ability with that will also enhance what the rifter does well.

Now just to clarify.

I am NOT saying the rifter is the best. The other combat frigs have been enhanced to bring them into line with the rifter. But a skilled rifter pilot will still kill a lot of stuff that people automatically write off with the new hulls.

What I am saying is that now more than ever what is best/worst is really a matter of personal opinion now rather than pure stats like before.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Milton Middleson
Rifterlings
#45 - 2013-02-06 08:52:08 UTC
Quote:
It is however very interesting that the slasher is now widely considered a much better frig than a rifter (I'm not disagreeing with this either) but the thing most people don't realise is that the rifter does exactly the same as it always did, it hasn't changed at all.

Yes, it's called power creep.

Quote:
active armour tanking is a niche in frig combat now?!

Well, it's pretty niche for a fragile autocannon brawler with mediocre cap, poor resists, and no tanking bonuses that relies on speed and range control to win fights.

Believe me, I want the Rifter to good again (I doubt the AAR will fix it). It's not that it is unusably bad, like most pre-Inferno T1 frigates were. It's that for any purpose, including the role of fast, flexible hull, you're better off with another ship.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#46 - 2013-02-06 09:11:47 UTC
Milton Middleson wrote:
Quote:
It is however very interesting that the slasher is now widely considered a much better frig than a rifter (I'm not disagreeing with this either) but the thing most people don't realise is that the rifter does exactly the same as it always did, it hasn't changed at all.

Yes, it's called power creep.

Quote:
active armour tanking is a niche in frig combat now?!

Well, it's pretty niche for a fragile autocannon brawler with mediocre cap, poor resists, and no tanking bonuses that relies on speed and range control to win fights.

Believe me, I want the Rifter to good again (I doubt the AAR will fix it). It's not that it is unusably bad, like most pre-Inferno T1 frigates were. It's that for any purpose, including the role of fast, flexible hull, you're better off with another ship.



Thats because midslots = best slots
And because td's = OP

The problem with the rifter is that is used to live entirely on the fact that it had decent projection tracking and speed. Its not just that its bad on paper (Although it is) there is just nothing it does really well anymore, no rifter will EVER kill a rail incursus, its just not going to happen unless the incursus is absolutely incompetent.


As to my comments before on the range control of the punisher i wasn't talking to Tao, i was just too lazy to quote the other guy



Also Armor slasher = best slasher

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Taoist Dragon
Okata Syndicate
#47 - 2013-02-06 21:53:08 UTC
I got to admit that the new slasher is a nice ship.

I have always liked the hull design (minnies take on an x-wing) now it has the ability to go with it.

I still like the rifter as it can generate more fights than most other frigates.


For me though the worst frigate is the breacher as the boost bonus just doesn't give me the stats that I want. After all if a medium ASB gives less EHP (even with bonus and OH) than the medium shield ext on the same hull why bother? in your cap charge reload you are dead anyways.

That is the Way, the Tao.

Balance is everything.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#48 - 2013-02-07 10:04:05 UTC
Taoist Dragon wrote:
I got to admit that the new slasher is a nice ship.

I have always liked the hull design (minnies take on an x-wing) now it has the ability to go with it.

I still like the rifter as it can generate more fights than most other frigates.


For me though the worst frigate is the breacher as the boost bonus just doesn't give me the stats that I want. After all if a medium ASB gives less EHP (even with bonus and OH) than the medium shield ext on the same hull why bother? in your cap charge reload you are dead anyways.



Thats why you go MSB and manage cap ^^

Got 15 in a row in my breacher in the FFA before it went pop.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Ragen Jithen
Mostly Harmless Mining Corp
#49 - 2013-02-07 19:35:52 UTC
Wait, i'm new after a 2 year hiatus - Weren't Rifters considered the best PvP Frigate for ages? Whats happened to them thats made them so bad?
Zarnak Wulf
Task Force 641
Empyrean Edict
#50 - 2013-02-07 21:41:27 UTC
Ragen Jithen wrote:
Wait, i'm new after a 2 year hiatus - Weren't Rifters considered the best PvP Frigate for ages? Whats happened to them thats made them so bad?


Technically nothing was done to the Rifter. All if the other T1 frigates received new bonuses an had their slots increased to ten. Quite a few also have 2,3, or even a full flight of lights at their disposal.
Garviel Tarrant
Beyond Divinity Inc
Shadow Cartel
#51 - 2013-02-08 09:50:54 UTC
Also the Rifters power was generally rather exaggerated.

BYDI recruitment closed-ish

Hidden Snake
Inglorious-Basterds
#52 - 2013-02-08 11:17:02 UTC
rifter ... is ok. ...

rest of the firg gang is just better ... midslots, ASB, TDs gave ships like condor or slasher (or breacher) much bigger viabiliry.
Savnire Jacitu
Abysmal Gentlemen
#53 - 2013-02-10 14:18:12 UTC
Punisher. And thats why I use it exclusively.

Previous page123